News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Section 5]

Most posters on this thread know i want the Brisbane Arena cancelled.
I also want the state and Commonwealth funding agreement changed to 50/50 split instead of the Commonwealth funding going to Brisbane Arena.
Brisbane does need an Entertainment Centre so why not plan and budget for one located on The Gabba site after 2032.
It would not take up all the area so additional plans for units/green space etc, etc.
That would help the local hospitality businesses survive in the area.
They would still need to survive the construction period though. Same would have applied if The Gabba was to be rebuilt.

When completed make housing/unit/greenspace plans for the Boondall Entertainment Centre where there is an existing rail line.

 

[Section 5]

The next review will likely say something completely different. Let’s face it, nobody has any idea what will happen.

Most likely that's true.
Depends on what Terms of Reference the LNP want to steer the review.

For example, Miles Terms of Reference to Quirk there were six exclusions.
The strangest exclusion in my opinion was:

The Review will not consider:
Number 6 "the impact on the Brisbane 2032 Master Plan of potential new sports which may be proposed by the Brisbane 2032 Organising Committee

It was well known at the time that T20 Cricket would be played in LA so would be an automatic selection for Brisbane.
Cricket would need at least 2 stadiums to play the matches. Not a small thing to ignore.
That one thing changes how the review may have come to some recommendations.
Seeing they recommended Victoria Park anyhow, i doubt that part would change but other things would be recommended.

My hope is one thing is included in the LNP Terms of Reference: To reassess the State and Commonwealth agreement.

 

[GC2015]

They won't scrap the Olympics. The funding is already being budgeted for and easily done over the long lead in period.
Carrara is the only option for athletics with no new stadium in my opinion.

As much as we (the Suns) would benefit from that, I don't think it's the right decision. A 50-60k stadium in Brisbane is the far better outcome IMO.

... but if it has to be this way then I guess Carrara will likely be upgraded permanently to 40k and that's something that the Gold Coast Council and the Suns have recently spoken about given the increase in sell out crowds this year (4/9 Suns games at Carrara were sell outs this year). If it does go ahead then I sure hope they plan on funding a serious upgrade to the public transport in the area i.e. a light rail line that goes from Nerang heavy rail station to Broadbeach light rail station with a stop outside the stadium along the way as well as one or two overpass bridges that allows people to walk into the precinct unrestricted by traffic.

But that will create all sorts of other issues.
Athletes would have to travel from Hamilton Athletics Village to Carrara as no room for them in the Gold Coast Village.
The IOC won't allow that to happen.

If that's true then surely they could just switch the assigned accommodation and have the athletics athletes staying at the Gold Coast Village? Robina (Village) to Carrara (Stadium) is a short trip of around 10-15 minutes.

So, we are back to where the hell is Crisafulli going to put athletics.
As Miles said yesterday if he is against QSAC he must be for Victoria Park. However, he said no new stadium just like Miles.

Crisafulli is of course an MP in a wealthy Gold Coast seat and probably knows a lot of heavy hitters on the GC, so perhaps he would be in favour of the Carrara option over anything in Brisbane. It just seems like a really bad situation for almost everyone involved because no one wants to commit to a new stadium.

 

[Section 5]

As much as we (the Suns) would benefit from that, I don't think it's the right decision. A 50-60k stadium in Brisbane is the far better outcome IMO.

... but if it has to be this way then I guess Carrara will likely be upgraded permanently to 40k and that's something that the Gold Coast Council and the Suns have recently spoken about given the increase in sell out crowds this year (4/9 Suns games at Carrara were sell outs this year). If it does go ahead then I sure hope they plan on funding a serious upgrade to the public transport in the area i.e. a light rail line that goes from Nerang heavy rail station to Broadbeach light rail station with a stop outside the stadium along the way as well as one or two overpass bridges that allows people to walk into the precinct unrestricted by traffic.


If that's true then surely they could just switch the assigned accommodation and have the athletics athletes staying at the Gold Coast Village? Robina (Village) to Carrara (Stadium) is a short trip of around 10-15 minutes.


Crisafulli is of course an MP in a wealthy Gold Coast seat and probably knows a lot of heavy hitters on the GC, so perhaps he would be in favour of the Carrara option over anything in Brisbane. It just seems like a really bad situation for almost everyone involved because no one wants to commit to a new stadium.

(a) Sounds like the Suns, Lions & Cricket all want to find a solution to sellout crowd numbers.
If the unlikely happens the Suns would benefit in upgrading Carrara in the long run as you mentioned.
However, in the short term you would once again be without a home for 1 season minimum.

(b) Public transport connection to Carrara will cost a mint.
The council have big light rail projects to complete before they look at Carrara. So that is a long way off, i think.
Light rail so far has been an expensive exercise for the Gold Coast but i believe it suits the region.
Heavy rail to Broadbeach sounds great but is it viable, i have no idea.
Carrara defiantly needs some form of better public transport, but it has languished for a long time.

(c) Brisbane Games organizers would know approximately how many athletes in each category have attended recent games.
The IOC would have given them these numbers. In recent games the participation number has increased.
"Around 10,500 athletes were set to take part in the Paris games, plus coaches and team officials."
We are planning to build 16,000 in total with 10,000 for Brisbane and 2,600 for the Gold Coast.

For the Paris Olympics, Australia sent 2 archers, 75 for athletics & 44 for swimming, won't list any more

The Athletes Villages would have been planned around where each sport category/venue will be located.
Switching athletics which is easily the greatest number to another region i don't see happening.
If it was a minor sport like Archery, it would not be much of an issue.

(d) Agree it is a bad situation and no real answers forthcoming until after the election then a 100-day review.
That's assuming the LNP get into office.

 

[M Malice]

So what happens if he wins and continues to say no new stadium? A Gabba rebuild or will they just scrap the Olympics altogether?

No way they will scrap the Olympics, a new stadium will be built IMO, just typical Politician election coming up speak from Crisafulli.

 

[M Malice]

MM, he still stated no new stadium as late as yesterday.
When asked he just replied in two words "it's no".

He will have to do a big backflip if his review recommends Victoria Park or even the Gabba.
Queenslanders will get 4 years of broken promises talk from Labor if he builds a new stadium somewhere.
Sure, he can say it was a recommendation from an independent panel.
But that won't stop Labor in opposition to remind the public he can't be trusted.
Just imagine if the project blew out to $4,000,000,000 plus.

He should have stuck to "the LNP will wait till the 100-day review has been completed. a decision will be made then".
That way he had lots of wriggle room to justify their decisions.

New stadium will happen, Politician's lie and exaggerate all the time it is in their DNA.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

New stadium will happen, Politician's lie and exaggerate all the time it is in their DNA.

This is true. It just seems like a big unforced error by Crisafulli to make himself a public liar within a few months of getting into office.

Oh well, I don't care as long as we get a good solution.

 

[Billy ray]

This is true. It just seems like a big unforced error by Crisafulli to make himself a public liar within a few months of getting into office.

Oh well, I don't care as long as we get a good solution.

This is an easyone politically i think
“I am no expert on stadium infrastructure costs. I need the advice of experts on such matters. Unlike my predecessor who thinks he was an expert. i will not make captains calls on something so large in value with impacts for future queenslanders. I have a legacy in mind and now lets get on with it”

 

[mighty_lions]

This is true. It just seems like a big unforced error by Crisafulli to make himself a public liar within a few months of getting into office.

Oh well, I don't care as long as we get a good solution.

he will be able to point to the independent authority and wash his hands of it, something I really have no idea why miles didn't do in the first place and just go along with the quirk report, the amount of votes they would of lost over this to me far outways the ones they gained

 

[Section 5]

This is true. It just seems like a big unforced error by Crisafulli to make himself a public liar within a few months of getting into office.

Oh well, I don't care as long as we get a good solution.

Agree.
It won't be for just a few months either it will be 4 years just like Gillard copped
For months he stuck to the line about a 100-day review.
Then for some unknown reason he changed track
Maybe he decided, or his advises suggested the change.
But it is a mistake for him if he gets in and builds a new stadium.
He probably does not care as long as he is Premier for 4 years

However, if the review recommends one and he does a backflip i am okay with that being a Lions fan

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Agree.
It won't be for just a few months either it will be 4 years just like Gillard copped
For months he stuck to the line about a 100-day review.
Then for some unknown reason he changed track
Maybe he decided, or his advises suggested the change.
But it is a mistake for him if he gets in and builds a new stadium.
He probably does not care as long as he is Premier for 4 years

However, if the review recommends one and he does a backflip i am okay with that being a Lions fan

Oh it'll be great for us if he does, just bad for him. But that's his problem, not ours.

 

[Pacman82]

Anyone see the rendering of the new stadium on 9News just then?

Kind of fugly looking, but it's well & truly at the point where we've out grown the GABBA, even I don't particularly like going there anymore

 

[Perrip]

Anyone see the rendering of the new stadium on 9News just then?

Kind of fugly looking, but it's well & truly at the point where we've out grown the GABBA, even I don't particularly like going there anymore

What 9 News was it? Had a look on 9 News Queensland but couldn't find anything about it

 

[Pacman82]

What 9 News was it? Had a look on 9 News Queensland but couldn't find anything about it

Brisbane edition

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Is the Gabba really that bad?
Should we be redeveloping it or building an entirely new ground?

If you've got time read through the previous 200-odd pages and it's been covered plenty. But the general consensus seems to be, aging stadium, good location, bad siting which makes it expensive to redevelop when compared to greenfield sites (locations where no other buildings exist).

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Is the Gabba really that bad?
Should we be redeveloping it or building an entirely new ground?

The Quirk Review answers these questions. You can find the full thing here, about halfway down the page.

The short versions are:

Is the Gabba really that bad?

The review found that while the experience for most spectators is still good, its condition is worse than public perception. It has issues with accessibility, building code compliance, disability access and supplying food and drink. A lot of things need to be rebuilt, like the roof, the steel structure, the lighting and the cooling equipment. That's all fixable, but it all has to be in compliance with the building code, which has changed a lot since the Gabba was built. Plus the current capacity probably isn't enough given how often we're selling out the ground.

Should we be redeveloping it or building an entirely new ground?

The review says it would cost over $1 billion to fix all the issues and bring the stadium up to code, but that doesn't do anything for increasing the capacity. Partial redevelopment won't solve the capacity issue either. The only good options to increase capacity are to knock the whole thing down and rebuild, or build a new stadium somewhere else.

The review also found a new stadium on the same site will cost at least $3 billion (plus the cost of displacing the Lions and cricket during construction). The problem there is the land is still constrained by all the major roads around it, so there would still be issues getting in and out of the ground after games, and with supplying food and drink. There would still probably need to be road shutdowns after games.

So the Quirk review said they're better off with an entirely new site somewhere else, that won't have the same constraints, and it reckoned Victoria Park would be the best option at $3.4 billion, in part because it's surrounded by parkland like the MCG and Adelaide Oval which makes getting in and out easier.

Some might argue $3.4 billion is a massive increase on the $1 billion it would cost to make the Gabba code compliant, and question whether the extra cost is worth it. I'd say it would be, as it gives us more capacity and gets rid of the need for road shutdowns. And the Olympics helps the case. Making Vic Park the Olympic stadium saves the $1.6 billion (minimum) that it would have cost to rebuild QSAC.

One limitation of the Quirk review is that it was made before Hamilton was discussed as a serious proposal, so it didn't look into it. I'd like to see a full comparison between VP and Hamilton in the second review Crisafulli is proposing. Something to consider is that Vic Park is not even ground, it's full of rolling hills that may not be great for accessibility, whereas Hamilton is totally flat.

 

[lionraven]

Is the Gabba really that bad?
Should we be redeveloping it or building an entirely new ground?

The Gabba is garbage. I cant bring my parents to games because they struggle with the stairs. The lifts are located in weird corners and its basically meant to be used for services so you share it with cleaners etc. Great way to make older and disabled folk feel included!

Lots of Victorians talk smack about Marvel but that stadium is way better than what we get here at the Gabba seating and food option wise.

Edit: lol enjoy your first shouting down draftee. Welcome to the Lions board.

please don't feel like you shouldn't post though.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Didn't a few of the reports mention that the Gabba will be end of life in 2032 regardless if the Olympics go ahead?

If that's the case, then yeah, a new stadium is needed. If cost is not an issue, you wreck the current site and build a new one (Johnny won't be happy). If cost is an issue, you build a new one.

Alternatively, we could find a way to just not host the Olympics, use the money we have to build a new stadium anyway. I think this fixes every problem.

 

[Dalions]

The Gabba is garbage. I cant bring my parents to games because they struggle with the stairs. The lifts are located in weird corners and its basically meant to be used for services so you share it with cleaners etc. Great way to make older and disabled folk feel included!

Lots of Victorians talk smack about Marvel but that stadium is way better than what we get here at the Gabba seating and food option wise.

Edit: lol enjoy your first shouting down draftee. Welcome to the Lions board.

please don't feel like you shouldn't post though.

Yep, I go to the footy with my 90 yr old Mother and she has stated this is her last year of footy due to the stairs at the Gabba.
Either she has an extra 1km walk to get to a lift and back again or she takes the stairs.
She has chosen to take the stairs.
There is only certain places where we are able to stop to drop her off too so makes the walk in and the stairs pretty tough for her.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Didn't a few of the reports mention that the Gabba will be end of life in 2032 regardless if the Olympics go ahead?

The Quirk report said all the end of life issues can be fixed for $1 billion.

If that's the case, then yeah, a new stadium is needed. If cost is not an issue, you wreck the current site and build a new one (Johnny won't be happy). If cost is an issue, you build a new one.

Is this some backhanded insult towards me? If so, have the guts to tag me.

 

[M Malice]

Victoria Park or Hamilton is a no brainer, then sell off the Gabba site at the conclusion of the Olympics for apartments and green space.

Personally prefer Victoria Park primarily because it is closer to the CBD and has better transport options(ATM).

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Victoria Park or Hamilton is a no brainer, then sell off the Gabba site at the conclusion of the Olympics for apartments and green space.

Personally prefer Victoria Park primarily because it is closer to the CBD and has better transport options(ATM).

In an ideal world the government would already be building the underground railway line to Hamilton, which they had planned in 2011 to be constructed to at least Newstead by 2031.

It's a little depressing reading that document and seeing what they projected to build by then compared to what we'll actually have (like the full railway line to Maroochydore instead of only getting to Caloundra). Still, just as the Olympics gave new momentum to building the line to Caloundra, my hope is a new stadium at Hamilton would light a fire under future governments to start work on the underground line soon after the Olympics. If it could do Albert St to Hamilton in 10-15 minutes, I think that's a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Section 5]

Is the Gabba really that bad?
Should we be redeveloping it or building an entirely new ground?

Thats a fair question to ask.
The reason i say that is this is a Brisbane Lions forum so a lot of posters on here are familiar with the issue.
We go to an election in 8 weeks and i believe most voters are thinking the same thing. "Is The Gabba really that bad".
Most voters are not going to ask the question like you, they will just see the costs and think no it's good enough for now.
That's why both parties are saying no new stadium irrespective of what they actually believe is best and cheaper for Brisbane in the long term. Thats politics for you.

You may or may not attend games at the Gabba.
If you do, you may be like me and have a good seat to view the game. Or satisfied with your seating position.
Lions could go from the present 67k members to 80k members, and my seat & view (as long as i renew) is not in danger of being taken away from me as i hold a season membership.
I am 71 and can handle the stairs but a lot of people struggle especially if they have some kind of disability.
The toilets (Male) are not great and i have visited quite a few in different spots over the years.
Yet to see one to accommodate a wheelchair. I am sure there a few somewhere.
My personal biggest issue with The Gabba is transport after the game. Cross river rail station opening will help a lot.

Other posters have given you the main issues and reason a new stadium is needed and cheaper than fixing up The Gabba.

We need a new oval Stadium for the Olympics. It's a no brainer, but who said politicians have any brains.
What is not needed is a $2.5 billion Entertainment Centre with a drop in pool that will be dismantled after the Games.

Welcome to Lions BF.

 

[Section 5]

In an ideal world the government would already be building the underground railway line to Hamilton, which they had planned in 2011 to be constructed to at least Newstead by 2031.

It's a little depressing reading that document and seeing what they projected to build by then compared to what we'll actually have (like the full railway line to Maroochydore instead of only getting to Caloundra). Still, just as the Olympics gave new momentum to building the line to Caloundra, my hope is a new stadium at Hamilton would light a fire under future governments to start work on the underground line soon after the Olympics. If it could do Albert St to Hamilton in 10-15 minutes, I think that's a reasonable amount of time.

I assume (image below) this is what you are talking about.
As you mentioned the recent government announcement of rail to airport most likely stops this proposal.
That's one hell of a tunnel. Toowong to Newstead then Newstead to Hamilton
Not saying it is not worth doing but what would be the costs.

Just looking at Cross River rail.
Costs now around $6.3 billion with just 6km underground.

 

[Happy_Neale]

The Quirk report said all the end of life issues can be fixed for $1 billion.

The plan outlined was essentially kicking the can down the road so more 'delaying' end of life rather than actually fixing anything