Game 3 NAB challenge v Pies @ Etihad 7:10pm Saturday 21st

[fargy]

Come on fellas, enjoy the win! No one is suggesting we are all of a sudden certainties to make finals or anything. You can't blame people from being excited for seeing an exciting brand of footy!
Yep the Pies may be around the bottom 4, but that just means one more team we could be capable of beating

 

[Ant_]

I know its a long shot buy is there anyway to watch the replay besides Foxtel?

Afl.com.au live pass is free during the nab cup

 

[Pagnoccolo C]

I don't want to be a wet blanket but i think this board tends to get as delirious when we win as it gets suicidal when we lose. And I think there are two things we need to bear in mind:

1) There were still PLENTY of disposals that didn't get close to hitting targets. Like I said in a previous post, Honeychurch is the one I'm most worried about in that regard at the moment (although I do like his grit and think he will likely end up a very solid player.)

2) Replying to the quoted section above - That was definitely the case in the 1st quarter. But as we tired and the run dried up a bit in the late 2nd and 3rd quarters, so did the play-on instinct in many players. I noticed Wallis was the first to start looking backwards. By contrast, I also noticed Captain Murphy was the direct opposite - he NEVER looked backwards. I understand this is a work in progress. But be prepared for when we get under the pump during the season - old, bad habits might re-emerge. Hopefully our Captain continues to lead the way, and eventually it becomes a permanent instinct for the team.

 

[Pagnoccolo C]

I agree I was getting a little bit too excited but that was deliberate as I want to build some excitement in as many of our supporters as possible. They are still a work in progress and old habits will emerge at times and mistakes will occur but there is an undeniable difference to the staid and plodding approach which characterised our game for so much of last year and I will enjoy every positive aspect of this season and will try to drag anyone I can along with me.

 

[Pagnoccolo C]

I'm warning you now, don't let me get my hopes up too high. It's been almost four years since I've been to a match. I get too cranky the next day when I have to stay up until 3am or so, just to watch/listen to us lose. You've been warned!

Get involved.

 

[Martyn_30_]

Something that was very noticeable live at the game was the change in defensive positioning of players, they are far less concerned about their opponent but rather the dangerous space. I noticed once at a centre bounce Roughead and Morris were either side of the Collingwood forwards but when Cloke changed position they both stayed there, which is very much a Hawthorn way to defend as a group rather than as individuals.

A key focus for the next game against Collingwood needs to be getting Taylor Adams as much of the ball as possible, not since Gilbee in his prime has someone hit Bulldogs players with such precision kicking.


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[threenewpadlocks]

A key focus for the next game against Collingwood needs to be getting Taylor Adams as much of the ball as possible, not since Gilbee in his prime has someone hit Bulldogs players with such precision kicking.


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Both Adams and Toovey had absolute stinkers, and Toovey turned it over about 10 times in our attacking half.
Give them the ball when they play us.

 

[the conch]

85% DE, but not many kicks to be honest. 4 kicks and 16 handballs for Jong.

And two were nice goals.

 

[True Dog]

Not sure who was at the game and who wasn't but there was a big reason Collingwood were unorganised and fumbled the way they did and that was our preasure... pre season, mid season or post season you can't take that away from us...

 

[DexterTan]

Interesting commentary maddog37. Some posters say Lukey D was butchering the ball and that Honeychurch didn't do very well.

 

[womble54]

I don't want to be a wet blanket but i think this board tends to get as delirious when we win as it gets suicidal when we lose. And I think there are two things we need to bear in mind:

1) There were still PLENTY of disposals that didn't get close to hitting targets. Like I said in a previous post, Honeychurch is the one I'm most worried about in that regard at the moment (although I do like his grit and think he will likely end up a very solid player.)

2) Replying to the quoted section above - That was definitely the case in the 1st quarter. But as we tired and the run dried up a bit in the late 2nd and 3rd quarters, so did the play-on instinct in many players. I noticed Wallis was the first to start looking backwards. By contrast, I also noticed Captain Murphy was the direct opposite - he NEVER looked backwards. I understand this is a work in progress. But be prepared for when we get under the pump during the season - old, bad habits might re-emerge. Hopefully our Captain continues to lead the way, and eventually it becomes a permanent instinct for the team.

Think you'll find many of us are just kicking off the remaining dust from the offseason.

That said..... anytime you pantz another team like last night is just party time

 

[the conch]

Who else liked the fact that players that have been canned for bad kicking kicked some great goals last night? Wallis, Goodes, Jong. Two goals each I think. Beautiful shots. and all from around 45 metres. Honey and Red missed gettables and Stringer was random.

 

[the conch]

Think you'll find many of us are just kicking off the
..... anytime you pantz another team like last night is just party time

Especially Collingwood

 

[SonOfScray]

Interesting commentary maddog37. Some posters say Lukey D was butchering the ball and that Honeychurch didn't do very well.

I prefer LD playing closer to goal, he has an instinct for the look away kick over the shoulder which is a goal scoring weapon inside 50 and a very low % play everywhere else.

 

[Wizard17]

Looking at the advanced stats again WTF does ST stand for nothing really comes to mind?

good to see out of our mids the clearances are spread out a little bit Macrae, Dahl and Jong lead the count with 5 each (not counting minson)

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Looking at the advanced stats again WTF does ST stand for nothing really comes to mind?

ST = stoppages according to the legend. Does that mean you cause a stoppage, because it can't be about clearing a stoppage as that has it's own stat category.

 

[Wizard17]

ST = stoppages according to the legend. Does that mean you cause a stoppage, because it can't be about clearing a stoppage as that has it's own stat category.

Clearances from stoppages? If you add the Center Clearances and that together you get the same amount as their clearances overall so I'd say it was that.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Who is the resident bigfootyer with who I lodge my application to join the Mitch honeychurch bandwagon?


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So many applications this pre-season. I really need to start charging for the honour.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

My thoughts on what we can take out of last night (positive and negative) and what was "just NAB cup:"

What we can take out of the game
Offensive potential. The pressure and intensity from the Pies was nonexistent and, regardless of who we're playing, I sincerely doubt we'll see that level of apathy from an opponent during the season. That said, what we saw was that when we aren't adequately checked, we are a dangerous side capable of scoring quickly and easily. The ball movement is very quick, we seek to find space with every possession and there are a multitude of players that can provide an option. If the opponent isn't switched on we are capable of taking advantage in a big way. We scored from 46% of our inside 50s last night, and in the first quarter we goaled on 43% of our inside 50s - excellent stats. This doesn't mean that our offensive play is perfect - far from it - just that there's enough there to punish sides if they lapse.

Jarrad Grant can play. We learned (again) that when Grant's attack on the ball is there, he is a seriously talented player. If he can bring that sort of courage and tenacity to the game every week there is undoubtedly a role for him. It's time for him to prove he can be switched on week-in, week-out.

Inside-outside transition and the team definition of "fast ball movement". We've well and truly done away with the quick, round-the-body kicks from inside a contest (aside from a few repeat offenders that are still weening themselves off it). Similarly we've largely stopped with the negative handballs. There's an emphasis on working the ball outside the pressure hot spot by hand, but this doesn't include conceding 50 metres through pointless handballs unless there is no other option and the receiver is a good ball user. In the past we have moved the ball quickly at stages but this ball movement was through quick, long and wayward kicks that gained ground quickly but gave the half forwards zero chance. We now seek to intelligently and efficiently work the ball out of the contest, and move the ball quickly once in space. The net result is slower ball movement, but ball movement that looks quicker, and is much more efficient.

Jack Redpath's development has been astounding. I remember watching one of Redpath's first games after being drafted. My first thought was, "Why is this Olympic weightlifter - who's clearly never seen a football before - not on our category B rookie list?" He was ridiculously raw. Strong, huge and quick in straight lines - but had no awareness, no aerobic capacity, no agility, no skill with the ball, no defensive accountability and no idea how to use his athletic attributes. Now, I'm still not sure whether or not he'll prove a good AFL player, but Jack's development is a testament to our development program, and to his own hard work. He's come a phenomenally long way and if he can continue to get better, he'll be extremely important for us.

No substitute for ferocity. I don't care how talented you/your team are/is - if you're not prepared to work you aren't going to reach your best form. Last night we were as ruthless as I've ever seen and we actually looked a football team because of it. Our pressure inside the contest and inside forward 50 was unbelievable. Outside the contest we could set up a little better but our intensity was superb, especially from players not always renowned for it. If we can keep that sort of pressure up more often than not we'll surprise a few with the quality teams we catch off guard.

We rely too heavily on Murphy. This will likely be unpopular but we are looking for Murphy too much and it will be taken advantage of by better clubs. I don't blame them for wanting the ball in El Capitano's hands - but how many times was Bob sold into trouble last night? How many times did he receive the ball when there were better options? Getting the ball in the hands of good ball users is fantastic but you still need to keep your head and make the right decisions.

Setup behind the ball. We are much smarter with how we set up behind the ball and it will make it much harder for opponents to rebound. Guys like Wood push up around the 50 metre arc and almost mirror the ball - as a result, the hurried kick out of our forward 50 from the opposition is much less successful and allows us repeat entries. I was really impressed with how well this worked last night. Other sides will make it more difficult - and, to be successful, our forward 50 pressure needs to be strong - but I was very happy with what we showed in this regard last night.

Johannisen's kicking is a real problem. JJ is a talented player but his kicking is disastrous. We need the pace he brings but we cannot persist with him if his kicking doesn't improve. If it doesn't lift I fear this contract may be his last - especially with more skilled players being developed for that role.

Defensive positioning. This isn't new but we saw it most prominently last night: our defenders play in front and aren't afraid to run off their man to provide support. It's a huge change from our strategy during the BMac era but we seem to be adjusting reasonably well so far. It will present some challenges - especially if the pressure up the field drops off - but we're certainly intercepting and killing opposition entries much more effectively.

Movement up the field. Over our past 60+ games I think my most common phrase during matches has been, "Somebody ****ing present for him!" So often over the past few years our players were stationary up the field and it made finding an option so much more difficult than it needed to be. Last night we saw how much more fluent our ball movement is when we're prepared to run and present at the ball carrier. Beveridge is clearly prioritising this. If it continues it will make transition play so much easier.

Odds and ends. Picken continues to be hard done by by supporters. Morris is still a brilliant player when allowed to play smaller. Stardom awaits Bontempelli. Cordy has finally found his correct playing weight. Calls of Minson's demise are premature. Lin Jong can iron out a role for himself at AFL level. Taylor Adams is a prick of a human being - maybe spend as much time on your football as you do on giving cheap shots behind play.

What we can't
The success of the back line. As much as I'd like to suggest that our defensive 50 is much improved and essentially impenetrable off the back of last night's drubbing, I couldn't take too much out of it. It functioned well and our new systems were clear (as mentioned earlier) but Collingwood's entries were deplorable and not of AFL standard. They were overly predictable in targeting Cloke even when outnumbered, their skills were scrappy, and they rarely made the right decision. Additionally there was no separation and their forwards were barely trying. This won't happen consistently in the proper season and there are still questions to be answered of our defense. It appears more balanced and well drilled, but we can't draw too much from last night in this regard.

The result. Self explanatory really but we can't draw too many snap judgments from the result in itself. It doesn't mean we're better than Collingwood, that we're better than a bottom two team, etc. Good confidence booster and good to let the players know they can match it with a mid-range team, but at the end of the day the Pies were a long, long way from their best footy and we shouldn't be too hasty to make predictions based off of the game itself.

Our disposal. We used the ball much better yesterday but it's easy to do that when you're under minimal pressure. We've improved, no doubt, but it's impossible to say how much by until we're under AFL-standard pressure, kicking to teammates that aren't ten metres clear of their opponent.

Our "backup plan(s)". What we haven't seen is what happens when our game plan breaks down. Last night we had a couple of mini-lapses but the Pies weren't playing well enough to really capitalise on it. Over the course of the year we will inevitably lapse given how young we are and how new many of these systems are - we haven't seen how we'll cope when this happens against quality opposition. That's our true test of how much has changed. In the past we've played some good footy at our best, but our worst was utterly disgusting. We got a good sense of the highs last night - but we need to be mindful that the lows will come, and that's where a true assessment on our improvement should be made.

In summary - NAB game with an opponent serving up rubbish or not, there's still a lot I think we can take out of last night's game. Bring on round 1. Go Dogs.

 

[Next Waiting]

M Boyd played well down back. Picken played well. I don't recall either of them attending a centre clearance or being anything other than momentary presence through the middle of the ground. And we moved the ball freely, decisively, quickly and well through the middle. Such a simple yet effective change.
Macrae was a more than useful target at half back from kick ins. He, Bonts and Stringer form part of the solution to that long running dilema.

 

[Scenester]

Come on fellas, enjoy the win! No one is suggesting we are all of a sudden certainties to make finals or anything. You can't blame people from being excited for seeing an exciting brand of footy!
Yep the Pies may be around the bottom 4, but that just means one more team we could be capable of beating

There's nothing wrong with a bit of excitement. It's been a long time since we've had anything to be excited about! And, the added bonus of the new 'entertaining' game plan is that the AFL might be keen to give the Dogs some more games on TV, at better times, if they show improvement this year, playing in a positive style.

The excitement feels like the beginning of the 2007 season, when everyone expected the Bulldogs to continue climbing up the ladder, but then they went backwards. That 06-07 excitement was justified the following year, and then the next few years too!

And, at least the Collingwood supporters have been more reasonable than the Richmond ones were after the first game! The Collingwood people aren't belittling our excitement. They seem rather self-deprecating, talking about how it won't be a great accomplishment to beat the Pies this year. And, I always appreciate a good dose of self-deprecation.

 

[DexterTan]

One thing I did notice kicking in from a behind - no long kicks to the ruckman for the inevitable boundary throw in reset. Then again, there wasn't enough
pressure to make the kicker do anything panicky either. Bloody Collingwood, couldn't give us a good enough challenge to test us!

 

[King Harold]

Can some of the detractors on this board now see why we kept Bret Goodes ?
Some of us have been banging on about him being a mid fielder that needs a run at it at senior level.
I suggested he was perfect for a team challenging as back up , but with Libber going down he will prove invaluable for us. He is a gun VFL mid fielder and didn't make sense to me we tried to make him into HBF.

Jong also , pretty sure he will play 100 plus. MD may have to concede ( we can only hope )

But I may have been to early to judge Hammling. I was wrapped the way he played.
Haven't been convinced up until now , but he could be an inspired pick up and just what we need.

Yeah we are all over the great Bont , but far out ,how good is Macrae ?
Can't think of too many that have his impact from day one.

And sorry Fronk , but Wallis will be more than ok. I believe he will get better and better.
A harder nut you will not find.

Also all of us VFL watchers have been watching the Big Red start to blossom , now with a AFL tank there is no going backwards for him. The best kick for goal in the club.

We keep them together, look out in 2 years.

 

[black pup]

I have been a knock on Mathew Boyd playing in our best 22, mainly because of his atrocious disposable, something I believed we could not afford in our Mid Field in 2015
Luke Beveridge I congratulate you on placing Mathew down back, he is now really contributing in so many ways to our team down back.
Great move Luke.

 

[black pup]

Can some of the detractors on this board now see why we kept Bret Goodes ?
Some of us have been banging on about him being a mid fielder that needs a run at it at senior level.
I suggested he was perfect for a team challenging as back up , but with Libber going down he will prove invaluable for us. He is a gun VFL mid fielder and didn't make sense to me we tried to make him into HBF.

Jong also , pretty sure he will play 100 plus. MD may have to concede ( we can only hope )

But I may have been to early to judge Hammling. I was wrapped the way he played.
Haven't been convinced up until now , but he could be an inspired pick up and just what we need.

Yeah we are all over the great Bont , but far out ,how good is Macrae ?
Can't think of too many that have his impact from day one.

And sorry Fronk , but Wallis will be more than ok. I believe he will get better and better.
A harder nut you will not find.

Also all of us VFL watchers have been watching the Big Red start to blossom , now with a AFL tank there is no going backwards for him. The best kick for goal in the club.

We keep them together, look out in 2 years.

Great Post King, I apologise for Goodies, so pleased to be wrong.