Game day experience in Melbourne

[Fear Boner]

Read the post. I just don't think Victorian crowds are as loud and passionate as they perhaps might have been. It's you people who started pinging me for being a Port supporter. I have always thought Adelaide crowds have been louder than Victorian crowds, pound for pound. Call us feral or rabid or whatever, it is just a plain fact, and increasingly so.

well opinions are like assholes , everyone has on....

we will leave it at that

 

[larson]

The new Adelaide stadium is built to be loud. Your supporters are just the same as everyone else, you just have a loud stadium.

The commentators were saying the same thing during the cricket World Cup.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Was pretty loud in Hawthorn members in the Olympic.

 

[kickazz]

Hawks fans are tired of winning. Geelong fans a bit shocked. That's the reality.

Very much so. Kardinia Park has lacked an edge since early mid 2000s when we were last on an upward incline.

If Port fans want to jump up and down when 10 goals up then good luck to them. There's plenty of games that become adversarial and heated. But there's a level of control so that opposition crowds mainly get home safely.

Yes I think this is part of it too. Sitting in a bi partisan crowd makes you pull your head in a bit because you respect your fellow footy supporter and everyone wants to get home safely. Sitting in mixed areas especially so. The crowd gets segregated in finals and I recon the positive feedback loop and group think fires the fans up a bit more. Just like in European soccer.

Melburnians probably also can appreciate good play from opponents more as the media covers more teams so across the board people know a bit more about other teams broadly. I still recall reading the footy section in The Advertiser last year and was surprised that the voting and ladder for the Player of the Year was restricted to Adelaide and Port players.

 

[Defacto]

I have spent Easter in Melbourne this long weekend and, as usual, took in the best AFL game not involving my team (Port), that being the Hawks v Cats game today. I was particularly interested in comparing today's matchup in terms of form and experience to Port and what I am used to in watching home games at the Adelaide Oval, as today's game was supposed to be a blockbuster between two traditional opponents.

I have been watching football for nearly 40 years and have been struck by the decreasing amount of tribalism and passion in AFL games in Melbourne, including finals, and including today's game. I was nonetheless struck today by how, Hawks and Cats supporters, all 73,000 of them, which is a vast number by any definition in world sport, approached the game almost like theatregoers today.

Geelong were very average yet there was no fierceness in the support from their fans, and Hawthorn were excellent as usual and I felt that their fans were subdue (bored?) in their support of their team.

I have to say that there is absolutely no comparison between supporters of these teams and Port supporters who are much, much louder and more passionate in their support of their (our) team, particularly in Showdowns. This may be because we are a 'smaller' club in a smaller city where perhaps winning and losing seems (in my view) to mean more than the somewhat dilletantish approach of Victorian crowds who are divided between 10 teams only a handful of which seem to have any chance of winning the flag from time to time.

I can imagine Saints and Bulldogs supporters would be vociferous and passionate in their support of their teams not having won the flag in so many years but I still doubt they would be as loud and engaged as Port (and possibly even Crows) supporters are. Oh and I have been to Richmond and Collingwood matches and, their crowd numbers notwithstanding, still don't think they can match the loudness and fervour of our crowds at the redeveloped Adelaide Oval.

West Coast and Fremantle supporters may feel the same way as me and say the same about their crowds (I can't comment as I have never been to Perth to watch an AFL game but will be sure to go when the new Perth Stadium opens), but I really do think people in Melbourne are far less tribal and vocal than they used to be, which I think is a shame.

WA football fans are very passionate the problem is membership is quite dear so you get a different demographic going. almost senior citizen like in some cases.

that why they call the eagles the Chardonnay set

so dull

 

[master bate]

Very much so. Kardinia Park has lacked an edge since early mid 2000s when we were last on an upward incline.

Yes I think this is part of it too. Sitting in a bi partisan crowd makes you pull your head in a bit because you respect your fellow footy supporter and everyone wants to get home safely. Sitting in mixed areas especially so. The crowd gets segregated in finals and I recon the positive feedback loop and group think fires the fans up a bit more. Just like in European soccer.

Melburnians probably also can appreciate good play from opponents more as the media covers more teams so across the board people know a bit more about other teams broadly. I still recall reading the footy section in The Advertiser last year and was surprised that the voting and ladder for the Player of the Year was restricted to Adelaide and Port players.

Yeah it's not a knock on Geelong it's just human nature. It won't take much for the fans to remember that losing really sucks and for the passion to come out when you're winning.

On that last point last night I had the radio on at the end of the Freo v Port game. The commentators gave their votes. Then gave votes just for Freo players. Ridiculous. Here in the real world the media do votes for an overall competition like the Brownlow, they don't try to hand out their own B+F as well.

 

[Hot Scodges]

Very much so. Kardinia Park has lacked an edge since early mid 2000s when we were last on an upward incline.



Yes I think this is part of it too. Sitting in a bi partisan crowd makes you pull your head in a bit because you respect your fellow footy supporter and everyone wants to get home safely. Sitting in mixed areas especially so. The crowd gets segregated in finals and I recon the positive feedback loop and group think fires the fans up a bit more. Just like in European soccer.

Melburnians probably also can appreciate good play from opponents more as the media covers more teams so across the board people know a bit more about other teams broadly. I still recall reading the footy section in The Advertiser last year and was surprised that the voting and ladder for the Player of the Year was restricted to Adelaide and Port players.

I probably agree with all this.

 

[blue harvest]

 

[Righteo]

Yeah it's not a knock on Geelong it's just human nature. It won't take much for the fans to remember that losing really sucks and for the passion to come out when you're winning.

On that last point last night I had the radio on at the end of the Freo v Port game. The commentators gave their votes. Then gave votes just for Freo players. Ridiculous. Here in the real world the media do votes for an overall competition like the Brownlow, they don't try to hand out their own B+F as well.

What does this even mean? What an incredibly strange thing to be upset over, I'm sure this is pretty common for local radio stations. If it was SEN or MMM I'd agree it'd be a bit strange but I'm guessing it was 6PR?

 

[master bate]

What does this even mean? What an incredibly strange thing to be upset over, I'm sure this is pretty common for local radio stations. If it was SEN or MMM I'd agree it'd be a bit strange but I'm guessing it was 6PR?

So the biggest radio station in Perth is a local station? I'm not upset, just find it amusing. Welcome to the 1980's Perth. So after a big loss they'd do 3-2-1 for best on ground which would likely be all opposition but then do 3-2-1 for the WA team players as well? What about derbies, 3 sets of votes? Overall, WCE, Freo?

 

[Righteo]

So the biggest radio station in Perth is a local station? I'm not upset, just find it amusing. Welcome to the 1980's Perth. So after a big loss they'd do 3-2-1 for best on ground which would likely be all opposition but then do 3-2-1 for the WA team players as well? What about derbies, 3 sets of votes? Overall, WCE, Freo?

Pretty much what I thought when I read your post, cool superiority complex mate. In a two team town a WA/SA/NSW or whatever player of the year award makes more sense than in an oversaturated market like Victoria. The fact you find that amusing is genuinely baffling, seems like our parochial OP has struck a bit of a nerve?

To answer all of your questions, I don't know because I don't care. Didn't think anyone would.

 

[eldorado]

Yes I think this is part of it too. Sitting in a bi partisan crowd makes you pull your head in a bit because you respect your fellow footy supporter and everyone wants to get home safely. Sitting in mixed areas especially so. .

This is an important factor.

Another factor is that it a home and away game, just a stepping stone. I know my level of tension rises exponentially when it's a knockout final, compared to home and away.

However, I don't know how one measures passion, anyway. During a game, I'm so tense I can barely talk to others, and I'm certainly not joining in chants or songs.

My other passion is soccer, and I'm following the fledgling A-league to a degree, live and on online forums. One gets into this bullshit argument about which fans are 'da best', and how the fans need to be more 'active', vocal, sing, do somersaults, whatever..

Personally, I don't give a shit. People pay their money, if they're not being anti-social, they can have whatever emotion they want. And they can express, or not express, their allegiance in whichever way they want.









(I really just wanted to say it's because we're urbane, mannered and civilised in Melbourne, while Port is populated by the kind of loud bogan who argues loudly on public transport about who's turn it is to buy the next pack of Peter Stuyvesants, but I thought better of it)

 

[radiojake]

I'll confirm or deny the OP's claims in two weeks..

Will finally get to see my first AFL game at Adelaide Oval when Melbourne play Adelaide there -

Having watched AFL football in within the confines of Victoria for the past 10 or so years, I'll be thrust into a mostly partisan crowd for the first time in ages. Adelaide get pretty good support numbers in Melbourne; obviously outnumbered, but for some reason the token bay in front of the hill with opposition supporters at AO don't seem to be anywhere near the number of Crows supporters at the MCG or Docklands...

 

[Sam95]

If you want to experience game day go to any a league match

 

[Dirty Bird]

The thread title drew me in as I thought this was going to be about this seasons improved game day experience which is more the stuff the clubs/league do not the fans. So I found this thread title misleading.

Also, you're not going to get serious discussion if you're just going to slag off on others and claim you're the best. Especially with how you went in the Primus years.

Anyway, after that I'll reply seriously (you're lucky, because the way you went about it, you deserve to be trolled like the first reply you got).

Anyway, I think the reasons this has happened is 1) Ground rationalisation, 2) Oversaturation and 3) Media emphasis on Big 4+1

Seriously, look at Adelaide/Port Adelaide/Sydney/West Coast/Fremantle/Geelong crowds - They have the fans to pack out (or get near it in the Freo/Syd/PA case) their stadiums by themselves. When you get such a lopsided crowd, the people take pride in making it difficult for opposing teams, they go out of their way to make it hell for opposition teams. This was the same pre-ground rationalisation in Victoria. Going to Victoria Park, going to Arden Street, going to Princess Park. Just as (if not more) feral as a Port Adelaide game. But when you start to go to soulless stadiums like Waverly, Etihad and the MCG, you lose the ability to pack it out in your own right. And as it's not your traditional home (except in Melbourne's case) you lose a little pride in your home. Especially with Carlton/Collingwood/Richmond/Essendon/Western Bulldogs/St Kilda/North Melbourne who play out of both stadiums. They don't have a real home, it's like you don't have a turf to protect. You lose a little tribalism. Hawthorn's deal for all home games at the G, and the G being Melbourne's traditional home gives their fans that connection, but the rest? pffft. I know someone will say 'but Alberton is Port's home, Footy Park is Adelaide's home' and use tha as the reason as to why I'm wrong. I might be wrong, but that argument is wrong. Due to the expansion of the VFL, still having more Victorian clubs than the rest of Australia combined, obvious Victorian bias in media etc. This has lead to an 'us vs them' mentality outside of Victoria. So yeah. Port may have gone from a 20k capacity Alberton, to a 50k capacity Footy Park, to a 53k capacity Adelaide Oval, but that inferiority complex (which admittedly, Adelaide possess too) maintains the passion from the fans.

Now, on the oversaturation point. Outside of Victoria each city (/area in SE QLD's case) only has 22 games, 11 home for each, you have minimal choice. It's not like you have 4-5 games a week you can choose from. These fans are starved (especially WA as the same 80k probably go to all the games with minimal seats for the other fans). Yet in Victoria, there's so much supply, there's less demand. Say the Phantom of the Opera is coming to Australia. It sells out from local residents who want to see such an amazing, and famous play. Yet it's a permanent fixture since the 20th century in London, you get 10 or so shows a week. Over time, the interest drops, still get healthy crowds so worth doing, but it's not as great as it once was. Taking away Arden Street/Victoria Park/Windy Hill I feel is getting the same effect. When there, you have 25k, now at Etihad you have 55k, the supply increases, the demand drops, now that people have a little taste, they no longer are desperate to go. Lose that desperate environment, you lose some passion. This isn't exclusive to Melbourne, it did hit the Crows a few years back as demand around 09-13 dropped and you lost that ferociousness with the Crows fan, but going to Adelaide Oval has brought back that demand, has rejuvenated the fanbase and brought back that ferociousness.

Ok, Media emphasis on the Big 4+1. When the media makes it all about Collingwood, all about Richmond, all about Essendon, all about Hawthorn and all about Carlton, people just feel the rest are irrelevant other than their local rival. I know many who'd rather beat a midtable Collingwood than a top 4 threat in the Bulldogs. So if you get a Collingwood vs Bulldogs game, or an Essendon vs Melbourne game, or a Richmond vs North game. The fan bases of those Big 4+1 teams, just don't give a shit about the other team. They might get into it if the game gets close as I know most fans do. But for the most part, they wont care. This deteriorates the atmosphere in their home games. It does work in reverse though. It does pump up the Demon/Kangaroo/Bulldog/Saint fans to want to beat these guys badly, but as the bigger clubs' fans view them as irrelevant, they don't turn up in the numbers they should, so you don't get that split crowd you see in finals. When fans don't care as much for games vs the smaller Victorian clubs, even there, it subtracts away from the atmosphere.

 

[master bate]

The thread title drew me in as I thought this was going to be about this seasons improved game day experience which is more the stuff the clubs/league do not the fans. So I found this thread title misleading.

Also, you're not going to get serious discussion if you're just going to slag off on others and claim you're the best. Especially with how you went in the Primus years.

Anyway, after that I'll reply seriously (you're lucky, because the way you went about it, you deserve to be trolled like the first reply you got).

Anyway, I think the reasons this has happened is 1) Ground rationalisation, 2) Oversaturation and 3) Media emphasis on Big 4+1

Seriously, look at Adelaide/Port Adelaide/Sydney/West Coast/Fremantle/Geelong crowds - They have the fans to pack out (or get near it in the Freo/Syd/PA case) their stadiums by themselves. When you get such a lopsided crowd, the people take pride in making it difficult for opposing teams, they go out of their way to make it hell for opposition teams. This was the same pre-ground rationalisation in Victoria. Going to Victoria Park, going to Arden Street, going to Princess Park. Just as (if not more) feral as a Port Adelaide game. But when you start to go to soulless stadiums like Waverly, Etihad and the MCG, you lose the ability to pack it out in your own right. And as it's not your traditional home (except in Melbourne's case) you lose a little pride in your home. Especially with Carlton/Collingwood/Richmond/Essendon/Western Bulldogs/St Kilda/North Melbourne who play out of both stadiums. They don't have a real home, it's like you don't have a turf to protect. You lose a little tribalism. Hawthorn's deal for all home games at the G, and the G being Melbourne's traditional home gives their fans that connection, but the rest? pffft. I know someone will say 'but Alberton is Port's home, Footy Park is Adelaide's home' and use tha as the reason as to why I'm wrong. I might be wrong, but that argument is wrong. Due to the expansion of the VFL, still having more Victorian clubs than the rest of Australia combined, obvious Victorian bias in media etc. This has lead to an 'us vs them' mentality outside of Victoria. So yeah. Port may have gone from a 20k capacity Alberton, to a 50k capacity Footy Park, to a 53k capacity Adelaide Oval, but that inferiority complex (which admittedly, Adelaide possess too) maintains the passion from the fans.

You're a bit wrong there. The MCG is not soulless. It's big, modern and cavernous but packed full of soul. At least when I'm there to watch Melbourne. It's also very much a home ground for Collingwood and Richmond at least. Both clubs are forced against their will to play 1-2 home games a year at Etihad but it pains me to say it as a Melbourne supporter they are entrenched at the G.

Richmond have the punt road end and the grog squad. It's 500m walk if that to Punt road. It's home for them. Collingwood as well, they've been here for a long time now, have a training base a stones throw away and pack the Ponsford stand particularly full of their own supporters. Collingwood itself and Vic Park is nothing more than a few Rocca torpedos away from the G really.

Hawthorn are interesting. I'm not sure they are quite at home at the G. So many of their supporters seem casual to me, but maybe that's rude. I think 4 home games at Tasmania is a bigger difference than being forced in to 1-2 at Etihad as Coll, Richmond (and Melb) are. I think more than a few would love to still be at Waverley (with a refurbishment and public transport etc etc).

Essendon fans love the G, they have a long history at the ground, but many of them have made peace with Etihad. It helps I guess there MCG home games often are mega blockbusters where home games mean nothing and atmosphere is guaranteed. They are more at home there than the other 3 teams at Etihad I'd say, although I feel North and the Doggies can make Etihad work. It makes sense geographically for them.

And Carlton, well they are just a club completely devoid of identity right now. Unfortunately they are muscling in on the MCG, a good move for them, a bad move for traditional tenants who will surely feel less at home and be shunted more to Etihad. Personally I do feel Carlton will never be Carlton until they rebuild Princes Park. I was kind of hoping that Dick Pratt just said stuff the inheritance and dropped 500mil on the joint and built them a 40-50k proper home venue for all home games minus the blockbusters.

 

[Dirty Bird]

You're a bit wrong there. The MCG is not soulless. It's big, modern and cavernous but packed full of soul. At least when I'm there to watch Melbourne.

What I didn't say, is I feel the soul is made by the crowd. Every stadium I've been to I feel that way.
And I was implying Melbourne and Hawthorn bring that a little, but without that little tidbit above, it would've been lost in my tl:dr post.

I've been to the G 3 times.
Collingwood vs Adelaide - The final around 09ish, felt flat till the 3rd. Felt soulless. Until about the mid 3rd. Game finally gets close and the natural tendencies come out to make it feel something.
Hawthorn vs Adelaide - The final in 2012, felt a lot better. Good from the get go.
Carlton vs Adelaide - 2014, that was in my bottom half dozen games for atmosphere (along with day, home games vs the lessar Victorian teams in Adelaide) absolutely shiteful from their fans. No atmosphere, no soul.

What im saying, is Hawthorn and Melbourne are the only 2 teams in Melbourne I feel bring that matchday atmosphere to their home games (maybe not Melbourne when they are shunted to Etihad). And to me, atmosphere = soul.

 

[Air_Chester]

Prolonged and sustained success (say, two teams who have won 6 of the last 8 flags between them) will see a drop in rabid support. Winning is the norm, and losing is meaningless when you're waiting for September. The game was over by half time, Geelong fans were planning their trip home and Hawks fans were politely applauding. Don't really blame them. Would've been very different if Geelong hadn't packed it in after 45 minutes.

By contrast, the Melbourne fans on Saturday were utterly fantastic.

What im saying, is Hawthorn and Melbourne are the only 2 teams in Melbourne I feel bring that matchday atmosphere to their home games (maybe not Melbourne when they are shunted to Etihad). And to me, atmosphere = soul.

I've never had an issue with lack of emotion at an Essendon game.

 

[Sketi]

27000 at Melbourne v Gold Coast and our players tweeted about how awesome the crowd were, the noise was great, the edge of your seat feeling was definitely there

Dees fans are definitely some of the more vocally passionate crowd I've heard in Melbourne. I'm always impressed at the amount of racket they make especially relative to the smaller crowd size.

 

[ReaperX]

Port's match day experience has improved dramatically, and whilst the interstate clubs may have some of the smaller Vic clubs beaten in terms of crowd and atmosphere, a contending Port/Crows/Eagles/Dockers won't/doesn't come close to a contending Collingwood/Richmond.

You saw what happened when the Tigers made that final in 2013... nearly 95k to an Elimination Final is unheard of, and they were blowing the proverbial roof off the joint.

The loudest and craziest crowd experience you will ever get, is a Richmond or Collingwood final at the MCG.

And if Richmond actually PLAYED Collingwood in a final? You'd get more people and a better atmosphere to a Richmond Vs. Collingwood EF, than you would to a Port Adelaide Vs. anybody GF imo.

 

[Shoei]

So the biggest radio station in Perth is a local station? I'm not upset, just find it amusing. Welcome to the 1980's Perth. So after a big loss they'd do 3-2-1 for best on ground which would likely be all opposition but then do 3-2-1 for the WA team players as well? What about derbies, 3 sets of votes? Overall, WCE, Freo?

What exactly did you expect the biggest radio station in Perth to be? Do you think we get our radio broadcast live from Victoria every day? Like the news it is tweaked for its listeners.

You do realise that they only broadcast the home game for the Eagles/Dockers that week right? It's then picked up and broadcast into Melbourne on different stations.

Why would 6PR bother to do best on ground for opposition teams? Most teams from Melbourne will play in Perth twice if they are lucky, so they don't even get to see most of the players play twice over a season.

What's the point in giving 6 votes to a Melbourne player when Eagles/Dockers will feature in 8+ games each to gain votes in?

I mean, its just stupid that you would consider such a trivial thing worth whinging about.

 

[Scotland]

So the biggest radio station in Perth is a local station? I'm not upset, just find it amusing. Welcome to the 1980's Perth. So after a big loss they'd do 3-2-1 for best on ground which would likely be all opposition but then do 3-2-1 for the WA team players as well? What about derbies, 3 sets of votes? Overall, WCE, Freo?

ABC do a 'WA footballer of the year' award (Geoff Christian Medal) in which they vote on Eagles/Freo games only. Given they only commentate on Eagles and Freo games it doesn't really make sense giving votes to opposition players who are from outside WA - the most any player not playing for WC/Freo can get is 12...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Christian_Medal

 

[Scotland]

Victorian footy fans are theatregoers, though. I agree 100% that tribalism has been diluted from the days of suburban footy. It's more about the event than supporting your team. People complain about the high number of corporates and neutrals at the GF, but are any games during the year with big crowds any different?

19,000 for St Kilda vs GWS
22,000 for WB vs West Coast
27,000 (higher than expected) for Melbourne vs Gold Coast

All OK but not amazing crowds for 'dud' games.

Huge crowds for Hawthorn vs Geelong and Carlton vs Richmond.

It's a pretty similar story most rounds each year. Fans crave the blockbuster timeslots and atmosphere of big crowds. 83,000 Friday night, so 41,500 each. High fiving Vic footy fans and AFL execs everywhere. 22,000 Saturday night, and I'll give all of them to the Dogs. This Saturday arvo Richmond host WB. 41,500 + 22,000 = 63,500, right? If the crowd tops 45,000 I'll be surprised. Where did the 20,000 or so go? Richmond host us on a Friday night later in the year. On prior years you'd expect that game to get 25-30,000, perhaps a bit more since it's the Friday.

I get why fans of 'Sunday Etihad' clubs get the shits with missing out on 'blockbusters' since they are the only games Vic footy fans actually consistently attend in big numbers, though I don't think they understand what 'blockbusters' entail.

You can see it as a dig or otherwise, and 150,000+ through the gates in the city each weekend is still a great result regardless, but I think people need to acknowledge that people going to the footy to be part of the experience makes up a big part of the experience.

 

[LeverPuller]

Dees fans are definitely some of the more vocally passionate crowd I've heard in Melbourne. I'm always impressed at the amount of racket they make especially relative to the smaller crowd size.

I honestly think that it's because at this point you have to be rusted on to still be on the MFC after the last decade. No bandwagon here.

 

[tige19]

I have spent Easter in Melbourne this long weekend and, as usual, took in the best AFL game not involving my team (Port), that being the Hawks v Cats game today. I was particularly interested in comparing today's matchup in terms of form and experience to Port and what I am used to in watching home games at the Adelaide Oval, as today's game was supposed to be a blockbuster between two traditional opponents.

I have been watching football for nearly 40 years and have been struck by the decreasing amount of tribalism and passion in AFL games in Melbourne, including finals, and including today's game. I was nonetheless struck today by how, Hawks and Cats supporters, all 73,000 of them, which is a vast number by any definition in world sport, approached the game almost like theatregoers today.

Geelong were very average yet there was no fierceness in the support from their fans, and Hawthorn were excellent as usual and I felt that their fans were subdue (bored?) in their support of their team.

I have to say that there is absolutely no comparison between supporters of these teams and Port supporters who are much, much louder and more passionate in their support of their (our) team, particularly in Showdowns. This may be because we are a 'smaller' club in a smaller city where perhaps winning and losing seems (in my view) to mean more than the somewhat dilletantish approach of Victorian crowds who are divided between 10 teams only a handful of which seem to have any chance of winning the flag from time to time.

I can imagine Saints and Bulldogs supporters would be vociferous and passionate in their support of their teams not having won the flag in so many years but I still doubt they would be as loud and engaged as Port (and possibly even Crows) supporters are. Oh and I have been to Richmond and Collingwood matches and, their crowd numbers notwithstanding, still don't think they can match the loudness and fervour of our crowds at the redeveloped Adelaide Oval.

West Coast and Fremantle supporters may feel the same way as me and say the same about their crowds (I can't comment as I have never been to Perth to watch an AFL game but will be sure to go when the new Perth Stadium opens), but I really do think people in Melbourne are far less tribal and vocal than they used to be, which I think is a shame.

Oh my.

Yes Port are brilliant, bow down to the might of the Port Adelaide supporter base lol. You guys are quickly becoming one of a kind, the ugly cousins of the Adelaide footy club trying their darnedest to have some relevance in the world. Pathetic.

There needs to be greater restrictions on who can start threads on the main board.