Gameday - WADA v AFL360 (EFC)

[madmug]

This is why lawyers always tell their clients to say nothing.

He'll get a belting from his mrs when he gets home tonight

 

[citizen-erased]

So the spreadsheet is only mentioned now? And you think we should ask ASADA where it is?

FFS, mate, blindly being lead by a liar, who's the fool.

yes, I'm blind and a devout Hirdite because something is mentioned and i think we should consider it. Instead of saying, nah, you're a liar cos i don't like you, therefore this suggestion of yours will not be considered...cos i would hate it to undermine my opinion.
Sure

The spreadsheet means nothing. I imagine this is as easy as ASADA saying it was unsatisfactory to them.
But Hird as asked if there was any record of what was given and by the sounds of it, this is all we had.

And this will be written about and accusations thrown about. Unless someone asks ASADA, and they defuse it by saying yes we have it and didn't consider it, or no we never received it. Then it's back to EFC to prove it was handed over.

 

[stabler]

This whole thing reeks, it just stinks. Members of the media are conflicted, players are conflicted, shadowy people from on high are pulling strings... it's like we are all living in Gotham city, praying for Batman to arrive and clean up this godforsaken city

 

[Thrawn]

This whole thing reeks, it just stinks. Members of the media are conflicted, players are conflicted, shadowy people from on high are pulling strings... it's like we are all living in Gotham city, praying for Batman to arrive and clean up this godforsaken city

Sorry, but Batman is in on it as well. The only way he can compete with Superman is via the use of PEDs.

 

[mxett]

So the spreadsheet is only mentioned now? And you think we should ask ASADA where it is?

FFS, mate, blindly being lead by a liar, who's the fool.

the spreadsheet was mentioned by Chip in 2013 actually

 

[Reppie]

This whole thing reeks, it just stinks. Members of the media are conflicted, players are conflicted, shadowy people from on high are pulling strings... it's like we are all living in Gotham city, praying for Batman to arrive and clean up this godforsaken city

Corruption...its everywhere.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I think I've worked out what's happened with Essendon's copies of the records and "the spreadsheet" they must have lost a filing cabinet in the move from Windy Hill to Tulla, the evidence that would have totally exonerated Essendon was probably sent to the local tip and been recycled.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Will one of you tossers upload it to youtube already geez

there's a few videos here, not sure if it contains the whole interview

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/shows

 

[citizen-erased]

No he "stated" that Essendon gave ASADA records or a "spreadsheet". He "intimated" that ASADA destroyed the records since they state that they don't have any.

Bollocks
He has outright accused a government agency of destroying evidence and claimed it as fact!.
This is going to be bigger than this mornings 6am news.
He's stuffed up big this time!!

Hird's minders should never have let him on the telly tonight. Inferring that ASADA destroyed the spreadsheet?! Good grief.

shark@jumped, emporer@naked.

Hird's support network needs to get around him, and get him away from the media for a few days, no exceptions. I'm seriously worried for the guy now.

Wheel out BJ to discuss best locations in the Swiss Alps for the last act of his film, anything, but they need to spread the load, cause it's crushing Jimmy.

Seriously, you need to actually listen to it.
Gerard asks are there any records
Hird mentions the spreadsheet that Robson handed to ASADA. We had it as a record and we never destroyed anything
Robbo says its a big accusation
Hird says its not an accusation, its a fact...that ASADA has the spreadsheet.

Whether Hird is right or not, he hasn't accused ASADA of destroying anything. He has stated they have a spreadsheet.
Seem very desperate to clutch at anything at the moment. We've been here before, for 2.5 years leading into the last tribunal.
Good to see it will be BAU going into this one.....sigh

 

[mxett]

Sir James stated several times tonight he is not concerned because truly believes the players are innocent... Why is he not concerned if he can't be sure what the players were given?

because he knows the club never set out to use banned substances and they believe the thymosin used was thymomodulin because they have records of its use. If this is true the only way they used banned substances was if they were given them against the clubs and players will. However they cannot find any evidence of this

 

[TheEnsign]

yes, I'm blind and a devout Hirdite because something is mentioned and i think we should consider it. Instead of saying, nah, you're a liar cos i don't like you, therefore this suggestion of yours will not be considered...cos i would hate it to undermine my opinion.
Sure

The spreadsheet means nothing. I imagine this is as easy as ASADA saying it was unsatisfactory to them.
But Hird as asked if there was any record of what was given and by the sounds of it, this is all we had.

And this will be written about and accusations thrown about. Unless someone asks ASADA, and they defuse it by saying yes we have it and didn't consider it, or no we never received it. Then it's back to EFC to prove it was handed over.

That's all well & good, but at the time Whatley specifically said that the AFL Tribunal hadn't received this 'spreadsheet' that Hird claims to have seen. And Whatley, from what I understand has actually seen the findings (please correct me if I am wrong).

That makes no sense to me. If ASADA didn't provide the spreadsheet, fine - it's not their job to make the defence for the players. But if it had probative value to the player's defence, why was it not tendered by the players themselves? Surely EFC could have given them copies.

 

[citizen-erased]

I think I've worked out what's happened with Essendon's copies of the records and "the spreadsheet" they must have lost a filing cabinet in the move from Windy Hill to Tulla, the evidence that would have totally exonerated Essendon was probably sent to the local tip and been recycled.

ha. good one...oh wait. I've heard it before...nevermind.

 

[Goosecat]

Whately saying that the AFL Anti-doping Tribunal would have found Lance Armstrong not-guilty

The Social Litigator says the same thing. Basically the AFL tribunal is being accused of setting the "proof" bar to high.
The USADA never "proved" Armstrong took banned substances "scientifically" with positive samples or the like. They had a truck load of former team-mates say he did but that's it.
According to the AFL Tribunal burden of proof interpretation, that wouldn't have been enough for them to convict. Armstrong would have got off.

 

[compact72]

That's all well & good, but at the time Whatley specifically said that the AFL Tribunal hadn't received this 'spreadsheet' that Hird claims to have seen. And Whatley, from what I understand has actually seen the findings (please correct me if I am wrong).

That makes no sense to me. If ASADA didn't provide the spreadsheet, fine - it's not their job to make the defence for the players. But if it had probative value to the player's defence, why was it not tendered by the players themselves? Surely EFC could have given them copies.

They done Ctrl + X instead of Ctrl + C

Just another coincidence

 

[legend166]

It's weird that Hird and co. only mention Thymomodulin when really pushed on the topic. If that's what they truly believe was given to the players, why continue to use the vague line "We know they weren't given anything harmful or illegal"? Why not just continually say "They were given Thymomodulin"?

Because deep down they know that narrative is garbage.

 

[inyourcool]

Because they're in on it

 

[QuietB]

Hird's minders should never have let him on the telly tonight. Inferring that ASADA destroyed the spreadsheet?! Good grief.

shark@jumped, emporer@naked.

Hird's support network needs to get around him, and get him away from the media for a few days, no exceptions. I'm seriously worried for the guy now.

Wheel out BJ to discuss best locations in the Swiss Alps for the last act of his film, anything, but they need to spread the load, cause it's crushing Jimmy.

Whately unsettled Hird. He has been used to pumping out his message unchallenged for too long and Whately rattled him. Then he let his anger towards ASADA get the better of him. We need more of it.

 

[compact72]

From another thread/place

I can tell you Evans, the AFL, ASADA, and their PR and a legal advisors just about had a settlement across the line in 2013 to the satisfaction of everyone except James Hird. He, along with Doc Reid, would have had to have admit guilt and resign. Instead, he stabbed his "best friend" Evans in the back, brought in Little and went on an orgy of litigation purely to save his own neck, and buggar the welfare of the players, Evans (who subsequently had a nervous breakdown) and Essendon.

For him now to say continually "it is all about the players and always has been" is staggeringly hypocritical.

I think Whateley knows that and at last was calling him out on it.

 

[peppy la pew]

ive read what people have stated was said, a number of times. Unless they are lying he never says ASADA destroyed evidence.

You got a link for 360?

Who says no records exists?

He directly inferred it, that's why Robbo said, that is big accusation.

It started when Hird said, we know what happened , we know we haven't done any wrong

Whately said, no you don't otherwise you could prove what you took and not be facing charges

Hird says we don't believe we took TB4, and the tribunal has come to that conclusion

Whately, no they didn't they couldn't place tb4 at the club

Hird, they were found not guilty of taking tb4

Whately, they never actually considered the question of whether they were given tb4

Hird, were they found guilty of taking tb4, you are either guilty or not guilty

Whateley, that question never got considered, although it might come up in the future.

pwned big time

later

Whately, are there any records to be found to fill the void that was identified by tribunal, who said if EFC had kept records like they should have we wouldn't be in this position, are there any records

Hird, well ive seen records of players taking thymomodulin, now those records were given to I Robson who gave them to ASADA, blah blah about thymosin, thymomodulin and tb4, he s******s and said there are records of players taking tymomodulin

Robbo chimed in about ASADA not having records

A bit of to and froing

Hird, well we weren't the ones who destroyed the evidence

Robbo, that's a big accusation

Hird it isn't an accusation its fact

Now read into that what you will, sounds to me like hird accused them of destroying records and robbo agrees.

 

[Big Bryza]

In a very good place.

 

[citizen-erased]

That's all well & good, but at the time Whatley specifically said that the AFL Tribunal hadn't received this 'spreadsheet' that Hird claims to have seen. And Whatley, from what I understand has actually seen the findings (please correct me if I am wrong).

That makes no sense to me. If ASADA didn't provide the spreadsheet, fine - it's not their job to make the defence for the players. But if it had probative value to the player's defence, why was it not tendered by the players themselves? Surely EFC could have given them copies.

I doubt it had any value.
Its a spreadsheet. I can't see it being worth jack to anyone. I would be surprised if it was submitted as part of the ASADA case..or even our defence. Though I'm trying to work out what records I'd want to see for this type of program.
I would say slips signed by the provider of the substance, the recipient, the administrator and probably Reid or a coach present to ensure standards were adhered to. Something like that.

CAS has to be comfortable with the following chain;
-Alavi compounded TB4
-Dank was given the TB4
-The TB4 made it to Essendon players
Then someone needs to identify which players.

Spreadsheet = well done. you know how to use excel. nothing more

 

[QuietB]

the spreadsheet was mentioned by Chip in 2013 actually

And Chip gets fed by Dank. You re going to need more than that.

 

[QuietB]

Seriously, you need to actually listen to it.
Gerard asks are there any records
Hird mentions the spreadsheet that Robson handed to ASADA. We had it as a record and we never destroyed anything
Robbo says its a big accusation
Hird says its not an accusation, its a fact...that ASADA has the spreadsheet.

Whether Hird is right or not, he hasn't accused ASADA of destroying anything. He has stated they have a spreadsheet.
Seem very desperate to clutch at anything at the moment. We've been here before, for 2.5 years leading into the last tribunal.
Good to see it will be BAU going into this one.....sigh

It is also a fact that the tribunal that delivered the not guilty verdict to Essendon categorically dismissed that Thymodulin was ever at Essendon.

 

[BlueWorld]

was this thymomodulin free or have they got invoices?

Only the ones dank forged and altered.

 

[TheEnsign]

I doubt it had any value.
Its a spreadsheet. I can't see it being worth jack to anyone. I would be surprised if it was submitted as part of the ASADA case..or even our defence. Though I'm trying to work out what records I'd want to see for this type of program.
I would say slips signed by the provider of the substance, the recipient, the administrator and probably Reid or a coach present to ensure standards were adhered to. Something like that.

CAS has to be comfortable with the following chain;
-Alavi compounded TB4
-Dank was given the TB4
-The TB4 made it to Essendon players
Then someone needs to identify which players.

Spreadsheet = well done. you know how to use excel. nothing more

Sure. I accept all of that, but it still doesn't provide a reason why players wouldn't use it in their defence. I cannot think of a reason why such a relevant document wouldn't be tendered by the players in their own defence.

I take your point that the tribunal may not have given it much weight but again you would still submit the thing and argue that the tribunal should give it weight. That's what lawyers do.