Gameday - WADA v AFL360 (EFC)

[peppy la pew]

Seriously, you need to actually listen to it.
Gerard asks are there any records
Hird mentions the spreadsheet that Robson handed to ASADA. We had it as a record and we never destroyed anything
Robbo says its a big accusation
Hird says its not an accusation, its a fact...that ASADA has the spreadsheet.

Whether Hird is right or not, he hasn't accused ASADA of destroying anything. He has stated they have a spreadsheet.
Seem very desperate to clutch at anything at the moment. We've been here before, for 2.5 years leading into the last tribunal.
Good to see it will be BAU going into this one.....sigh

IIRC he said ' we weren't the ones who destroyed the records"

That is an accusation

He never simply said, we didn't destroy them.

Happy to be corrected as I'm staring at an empty BOR

 

[malteaser]

Whately unsettled Hird. He has been used to pumping out his message unchallenged for too long and Whately rattled him. Then he let his anger towards ASADA get the better of him. We need more of it.

he totally was put in his place and was directly told what he already knew but has been in denial, it's an addiction now he can't help himself. I think ESPN should start filming for their 30 for 30 documentaries.

 

[scotch and coke]

So there's a spreadsheet, that JH has personally seen, that has 'Thymomodulin' written across the top of it, that Robson gave to ASADA.

I'm sure EFC can produce this document now just like the Reid letter.

Edit: Never mind parsing James' exact words - the thing I found strange was him saying 'It has Thymomodulin written across the top' and slightly off camera he makes a squiggly writing motion with his right hand. So thymo was handwritten on the spreadsheet? Probably making too much of it but the body language was very strange, I've never moved my hand in a writing squiggle when referring to a soft copy spreadsheet.

So many body language experts on here it's not funny maybe your in the wrong profession mate. I just watched the interview with my wife (follows St Kilda) and neither of us thought that he accused asada of destroying evidence but more explaining that in fact there is spreadsheet out there, where it is now needs to be clarified. If he is lying surely asada will refute the claim strongly and would have grounds for legal action.

 

[mxett]

And Chip gets fed by Dank. You re going to need more than that.

i was answering a claim the spreadsheet theory was invented today, which clearly it was not

 

[Tiger2709]

lol. So he never faced pressure as a player?

Playing football and public speaking are hardly the same thing I cant imagine Winston Churchill kicking goals for Oxford United even though he was a great speaker under pressure.

 

[peppy la pew]

It is also a fact that the tribunal that delivered the not guilty verdict to Essendon categorically dismissed that Thymodulin was ever at Essendon.

Yet Albert categorically says he has seen the records that say thymomodulin was used. He gave those records to Robson who gave them to ASADA.

 

[Satan]

i was answering a claim the spreadsheet theory was invented today, which clearly it was not

Was this dean wallis spreadsheet?

 

[Tiger2709]

So many body language experts on here it's not funny maybe your in the wrong profession mate. I just watched the interview with my wife (follows St Kilda) and neither of us thought that he accused asada of destroying evidence but more explaining that in fact there is spreadsheet out there, where it is now needs to be clarified. If he is lying surely asada will refute the claim strongly and would have grounds for legal action.

Who needs to be a body language expert Hirds nose was growing longer as the show progressed, I believe he nearly took Robbos eye out at one stage.

 

[good4footy]

Yet Albert categorically says he has seen the records that say thymomodulin was used. He gave those records to Robson who gave them to ASADA.

How can he give the records to Robson when he stated in court he was not responsible for anything. All he had responsibility for was to move witches hats around at training.

 

[blue harvest]

I doubt it had any value.
Its a spreadsheet. I can't see it being worth jack to anyone.
Spreadsheet = well done. you know how to use excel. nothing more

A fake mickey mouse spreadsheet has no value (other than implying you are hiding stuff), but a valid spreadsheet would have identifying information that provides a link to the substance, such as a bar code/supplier number/batch number etc which could then be linked back to the purchase of the substance, copies of invoices, any required prescriptions etc. Even when my dog goes to the Vet all of the identifying info from his jabs is recorded on his spreadsheet and can easily be traced back if required. That's how the medical profession operates.

 

[citizen-erased]

It is also a fact that the tribunal that delivered the not guilty verdict to Essendon categorically dismissed that Thymodulin was ever at Essendon.

Which goes to the question of what was actually administered, which is hard to see ever coming to light. A different question altogether, and one that should be addressed.

But Gerard is missing the point by saying the players aren't not guilty of TB4 because the question wasn't considered.
The link to TB4 breaks early in the chain. At that point, the question of their guilt in being administered TB4 is no longer relevant.
He's not wrong in that it hasn't been considered, but fails to see it can't be considered if Dank can't be linked to TB4

 

[Satan]

Who needs to be a body language expert Hirds nose was growing longer as the show progressed, I believe he nearly took Robbos eye out at one stage.

Are you sure hirdy hadnt taken that Mela... Pill again?

 

[citizen-erased]

A fake mickey mouse spreadsheet has no value (other than implying you are hiding stuff), but a valid spreadsheet would have identifying information that provides a link to the substance, such as a bar code/supplier number/batch number etc which could then be linked back to the purchase of the substance, copies of invoices, any required prescriptions etc. Even when my dog goes to the Vet all of the identifying info from his jabs is recorded on his spreadsheet and can easily be traced back if required. That's how the medical profession operates.

I wouldn't assume we were running anything that slick that a year 8 student could design it.

 

[Chief]

But Gerard is missing the point by saying the players aren't not guilty of TB4 because the question wasn't considered.
The link to TB4 breaks early in the chain. At that point, the question of their guilt in being administered TB4 is no longer relevant.
He's not wrong in that it hasn't been considered, but fails to see it can't be considered if Dank can't be linked to TB4

Sounds like he's saying you can't say players were found not guilty of using TB4. I've never been found not guilty of murder. Doesn't mean I am a murderer.

 

[peppy la pew]

id like to point out that my fellow EFC supporters have been unfairly characterised as cultists/foamers/etc. We have nothing on stuff like this.

The club and players believe the tribunal findings cleared them on the basis that the question of the players being administered a banned substance wasn't considered, because the evidence linking the drug to the person allegedly injecting them with it was not accepted.
TB4 not linked to Dank means you can't link him to injecting it into EFC players.
Yes, the tribunal never got there, but the point became moot once the link to Dank wasn't established.

As for the accusation of ASADA destroying evidence, thats a long stretch of what he said to suit your own agenda.
And i quote "It's not essendon who has destroyed anything, it was handed over to ASADA"
He is stating ASADA have the records stating Thymomodulin with each players name on it.
Now, this proves nothing. And if its the best we have, thats pretty amateur.
Also puts Robson front and centre of being responsible for managing the program. Stiff, but he escaped a lot of attention.

Drawing an accusation of ASADA destroying evidence = foam

I don't know what horse you rode in on, but I was answering a post from mxett who hadn't seen 360.

I summarised it best I could

Dont get so worked up calling me petty names, I am sure WADA will collude in the most honourable manner with ASADA to work out exactly what happened.

 

[Mahlepi]

Hird tried the injunction route - failed
Now it's the horse ate my homework

 

[peppy la pew]

How can he give the records to Robson when he stated in court he was not responsible for anything. All he had responsibility for was to move witches hats around at training.

Fair to say he was squirming at the time

 

[carlton2dabone]

Sounds like he's saying you can't say players were found not guilty of using TB4. I've never been found not guilty of murder. Doesn't mean I am a murderer.

Gerard is saying that because the finding was insufficient evidence that, efc can't claim innocence on TB4 because the insufficient evidence ruling that was reached, prevented the tribunal from asking the question if TB4 was used.

Basically insufficient evidence just means that the verdict was paused and if further evidence comes to light then the verdict could easily change when they consider if TB4 was used.

 

[scotch and coke]

Who needs to be a body language expert Hirds nose was growing longer as the show progressed, I believe he nearly took Robbos eye out at one stage.

Lucky he didn't take some of that banned stuff before appearing tonight .....he would of flipped the desk out of the studio.

 

[Tiger2709]

Are you sure hirdy hadnt taken that Mela... Pill again?

The desk did rise a little but Robbo stepped in and took care of the situation, anything for the champ.

 

[compact72]

Hope all 34 players have a good night sleep, don't let the bed bugs bite you. Don't look at the ceiling either, because you will just see/imagine WADA coming over the top.

Have fun training with your coach that put you in this position

xoxoxox

 

[citizen-erased]

Fair to say he was squirming at the time

said he'd seen it. knows it was given to robson, who gave it to ASADA.
Don't think he said he kept the records, or that it was his spreadsheet.

 

[citizen-erased]

I don't know what horse you rode in on, but I was answering a post from mxett who hadn't seen 360.

I summarised it best I could

Dont get so worked up calling me petty names, I am sure WADA will collude in the most honourable manner with ASADA to work out exactly what happened.

summarised with the assertion that Hird accused ASADA of destroying evidence. Nice summation. very even handed.

 

[DrEvil_]

So is this "spreadsheet" an excel file or old fashion pen and paper?

 

[citizen-erased]

Sure. I accept all of that, but it still doesn't provide a reason why players wouldn't use it in their defence. I cannot think of a reason why such a relevant document wouldn't be tendered by the players in their own defence.

I take your point that the tribunal may not have given it much weight but again you would still submit the thing and argue that the tribunal should give it weight. That's what lawyers do.

If Hird is right and the club submitted it, i'd be surprised if the players didn't as well.
Unless it was already categorically dismissed by ASADA, at which point you're just wasting time.
Really comes down to how much water an excel file holds as proof of what happened.
I'd say not a lot really.