GC & Carlton Given Priority Access to State League Players

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Anyone who things a fringe type with clear limitations is going to make a difference in a bottom side is moronic.

These vfl pick ups play a role where their deficiencies are covered up by more experienced and quality players around them, surround them with kids and they will be horribly exposed and sent back to the VFL.

The best thing for Carlton and GC to do with these picks is to package them up with draft picks to improve draft position/on trade for actual afl quality players. I.E trade Mcadam + 25 to say hawthorn for pick 15 and use that on MM.

Agree strongly with this. None of these players are likely to be any better than Nick Graham, who would win the Margarey in a canter if he played SANFL.

 

[Theo X]

So Carlton have a massive whinge saying they need players 22-27 yo to support the plethora of first round pick younger players after having traded away their senior players for picks, now it sounds like they're going to trade these state listed players on for picks. Carlton should never have been given that option, or any draft assistance for that matter. Just disgraceful.

 

[davis_756]

So Carlton have a massive whinge saying they need players 22-27 yo to support the plethora of first round pick younger players after having traded away their senior players for picks, now it sounds like they're going to trade these state listed players on for picks. Carlton should never have been given that option, or any draft assistance for that matter. Just disgraceful.

Someone get this man a tissue

 

[blue healer]

This is a bit defeatist i think. Here's a list of guys we've picked as rookies:
Ben Ronke
Lewis Melican
Jake Lloyd
Dane Rampe
Harry Cunningham
Heath Grundy
Nick Smith
Daniel Robinson
Kieren Jack
Tom Papley
Callum Sinclair (Rookie drafted by Eagles)

All best 22 except maybe Robinson. All except Robinson would be in your best 22 as well (or would in their prime). There are good quality players out there. If you expected the AFL to give you pick 3, or pick 12 and get another star, then sure, you can be disappointed. But if you just need good players who are going to be best 22, then there are many, many state league players who are better than the players you have on your list already. Maybe not a gun like Kelly, but there are lots who will make you better then you are, you just need to identify them.

I don't follow the Swans list too closely but can you tell us how many of those rookies were actually recruited through the State Leagues after being overlooked in previous years drafts? I suspect most were just overlooked in their draft year and most teams have had success with those types of rookies.

 

[Peel67skin]

I don't follow the Swans list too closely but can you tell us how many of those rookies were actually recruited through the State Leagues after being overlooked in previous years drafts? I suspect most were just overlooked in their draft year and most teams have had success with those types of rookies.

Can always consider trade both of your state league players to GC for pick 17/18 that will be as close as end of first round priority pick Brisbane get in 2016 draft , be flexible make thing happen rather than complain .

 

[footyfan1978]

Having a browse for my interest of past types taken mainly via national drafts when old under 19's and zone systems gone. Will add more later in edits. The first impression is by second round of most drafts one or two clubs always start looking outside the square of new draftees and start to see a diamond in rough from state leagues. Which gives me the impression what Carlton and Gold Coast been given essentially worth around middle second round picks but in a trade doubt any club willing to give a draft pick up before pick 25 based on Tim Kelly last season.

Pre-Draft era some very notable late bloomers to making their mark on league football in very big way...


1967
Alex Jesaulenko at Carlton from ACT league


1978
Bernie Evans at South Melbourne from Port Melbourne in VFA


1979
Wayne Johnston at Carlton from Prahran in VFA


1984
Greg Williams at Geelong via Bendigo League rejected by David Parkin from Carlton in their zone
Gary Ablett at Geelong after going walkabout Bush from leaving Allan Jeans coached Hawks


1985
Jason Dunstall at Hawthorn from Queensland league
Paul Couch at Geelong from Warrnambool after rejected from Fitzroy as a teenager in their zone


1990
Paul Kelly at Sydney Swans via Wagga Wagga region


Draft era with old zone system phased out and TAC Cup the new pathway for Victorian kids

1993
Paul Barnard pick 22
David King pick 46


1994
Pick 22 Winston Abraham
Pick 25 Steven Sziller
Pick 46 Justin Charles
Pick 74 Troy Luff


1995
Pick 13 Brad Rowe
Pick 15 Doc Wheildon
Pick 29 Todd Curley
Pick 39 Glenn Kilpatrick
Pick 43 Mark West


1996
Pick 15 Max Hudghton
Pick 25 Andrew Bomford
Pick 27 Troy Cook
Pick 37 Adam Kingsley
Pick 47 Brent Montgomery
Pick 49 Jason Heatley
Pick 59 Anthony McDonald
Pick 62 Andrew Thompson
Pick 85 Brad Scott


1997
Pick 21 Clem Michael
Pick 33 James Thiessen
Pick 41 Danny Morton
Pick 66 Nathan Brown (Melbourne, not Dogs one)
Pick 67 Brad Lloyd
Pick 71 Andrew Kellaway
Pick 77 Guy Rigoni
Pick 78 Richard Vandenbeerg


1998
4 Ryan Fitzgerald
16 Brett Burton
20 Michael Collica
31 Gary Dhurrkay
65 Lee Walker
76 Rupert Betheras



1999
36 Rhett Biglands
51 Ricky O'Loughlin
53 Clayton Lasscock
64 Cameron Bruce
68 Tony Delaney
81 Troy Makepeace


2000
45 Trent Carroll
49 Shane Wakelin


2001
36 Sam Mitchell
56 Paul Medhurst
74 Ricky Mott


2002
35 Scott Bassett
39 Gary Moorcroft
41 Tim Fleming
56 Robert Shirley


2003
22 Cameron Thurley
31 Josh Krueger
43 Brett Peake
45 Amon Buchanan
55 Sam Fisher
58 Ben Hudson
73 Shane Tuck


2004
33 Cain Ackland
53 Simon Taylor
62 Matthew Egan
73 Chris Bryan
74 Daniel Pratt


2005
32 Bernie Vince
56 Joel Patfull
61 Matthew Stokes


2006
36 Alwyn Davey
64 Nick Gill
71 Justin Westhoff
82 Aaron Edwards
86 David Rodan



2007
17 Harry Taylor
34 Mathew Westhoff
37 Scott Thompson (North one)
46 Dennis Armfield
52 Brad Dalziell
69 Kepler Bradley


2008
21 Hayden Ballantyne
43 Liam Anthony


2009
14 Lewis Jetta
46 Ben Stratton
55 Trent Dennis-Lane



2010
19 Hawthorn Isaac Smith Temora/East Wagga-Kooringal/Wagga/NSW-ACT U18/Redan/North Ballarat 21
33 Melbourne Jeremy Howe Dodges Ferry/Hobart FC/Tasmania U18 20
66 Hawthorn Paul Puopolo Hope Valley/Norwood 22
70 Carlton Nick Duigan Walkerville/Pembroke School/Norwood 26
73 Sydney Matthew Spangher Xavier College/Old Xavs/Eastern U18 23



2011
44 Carlton Sam Rowe North Albury/Murray U18 23
54 Melbourne James Sellar Glenelg 22
57 Western Bulldogs Tory Dickson Beaconsfield/Haileybury College/Frankston/Noble Park/Bendigo 24


2012
22 Sydney Dean Towers Colac/North Ballarat 22yr
51 Essendon Dylan van Unen North Ringwood/Eastern U18/Box Hill/Frankston 22yr
52 Melbourne Matt Jones South Croydon/Labrador/Box Hill 25yr
57 Gold Coast Kyal Horsley Kalgoorlie City/Subiaco 25yr
60 West Coast Mark Hutchings Coolbinia/East Perth 21yr



2013
29 GWS Rory Lobb Bassendean/Swan Districts 20yr
35 Sydney Toby Nankervis George Town/North Launceston/Tasmania U18 19yr
38 Hawthorn Dayle Garlett Upper Swan/Swan Districts 19yr
42 Western Bulldogs Matt Fuller Norwood 23yr
44 Sydney Aliir Aliir Aspley/East Fremantle 19yr
47 North Melbourne Ben Brown Devonport/Tasmania U18/Glenorchy/Werribee 20yr
50 Richmond Nathan Gordon East Coast Eagles/NSW-ACT U18 23y
66 Richmond Sam Lloyd Deniliquin FC/Geelong Grammar/Geelong U18/Mount Eliza/Bendigo/Frankston 23yr



2014
19 Carlton Blaine Boekhorst Port Hedland/Wesley College (WA)/Swan Districts 21yr
43 Adelaide Mitch McGovern North Albany/Claremont 20yr



2015
35 Western Bulldogs Marcus Adams Upper Swan/West Perth 22yr
55 Fremantle Sam Collins Donvale/Oakleigh U18/Box Hill 21yr
61 Fremantle Shane Yarran Armadale/Subiaco 26yr
63 Collingwood Rupert Wills Scotch College/Old Scotch/Collingwood (VFL) 22yr
66 Geelong Sam Menegola Attadale/East Fremantle/Subiaco 23yr
67 Richmond Nathan Broad Upper Swan/Swan Districts 22yr
68 Essendon Michael Hartley Penrith/Sydney University/NSW-ACT U18/Collingwood (VFL) 22yr



2016
25 St Kilda Ben Long St Marys/Melbourne Grammar/Northern U18/Footscray (VFL) 19yr
40 Geelong Tom Stewart South Barwon/Geelong U18/Geelong (VFL) 23yr
46 Melbourne Mitch Hannan Avondale Heights/St Bernards/Footscray (VFL) 22yr
48 Sydney Darcy Cameron North Albany/Hale School/Claremont 21yr
52 West Coast Willie Rioli Tiwi Bombers/Glenelg 21yr
66 Fremantle Luke Ryan Moonee Valley/Calder U18/Maribyrnong Park/Coburg 20yr
68 Geelong Timm House Gnowangerup/Claremont/Newtown & Chilwell/Geelong (VFL) 21yr
69 Geelong Ryan Abbott Grovedale/Geelong (VFL) 25yr



2017
24 Geelong Tim Kelly Palmyra JFC/South Fremantle 23yr
26 West Coast Liam Ryan Subiaco 21yr
31 Melbourne Bayley Fritsch Coldstream/Casey 20yr
56 GWS Zac Langdon Dampier/Guildford Grammar/Claremont 21yr
61 Port Adelaide Dom Barry Alice Springs Federal/East Point/St Patrick's College/North Ballarat U18 23yr
73 Fremantle Sam Switkowski Lower Plenty/Northern U18/Box Hill 20yr
75 Fremantle Scott Jones Busselton/East Perth 22yr 205cm 109kg
76 Essendon Matt Guelfi Wembley Downs JFC/Marist JFC/Claremont 20yr
78 Carlton Jarrod Garlett Bibra Lake/South Fremantle 21yr

 

[Ambrosia]

footyfan78 Cale Hooker was 19 in 2007 and Tim English 19 in 2016.

 

[footyfan1978]

footyfan78 Cale Hooker was 19 in 2007 and Tim English 19 in 2016.

Problem is depending on where a 19 year spends his football season as a 19 year old, some would not be eligible so in my search I did not look for 19 year olds in national drafts and only noted a few exceptions like Sam Mitchell that clearly would be eligible as his spent the season as a 19 year old playing in VFL rather than under age system which some 19 year olds are allowed to do. I looked for mainly 20 year olds and older.

Example is the article on AFL site says some 19 year olds Carlton or Gold Coast could not grab via this method.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-09-27/star-ruckman-off-limits-to-suns-and-blues


Not aware of whether Tim English or Cale Hooker exact status as 19 year olds in relation to this type of ruling but was with Sam Mitchell. Similarly any mature age guys picked up via rookie drafts I was not searching. So my list is not comprehensive above. There is bound to be some guys I missed but it is probably 95% of the relevant guys considering this new system plays off clubs to work out the market value of such players in regards to pick value in national draft. Eagles for example went out of their way to get more picks in 20's last year with plan to nab Liam Ryan and Tim Kelly last year in national draft. If this rule had been in last season a club in pre-draft access situation may have accepted a pick 25 from Cats or around that pick mark from Eagles.

So if Carlton or Gold Coast have some guy other clubs may want realistically another club may offer them pick in late 20's or 30's if they very keen on them. That was part of reason I was searching to get a feel from national draft how often clubs really looking for guys in this range of age and what type of picks at national draft they willing to use to grab such players.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think Gold Coast did well in their selections. Three KPPs will take the strain off the young players who would otherwise fill those positions. Lukosius can go on the wing if they draft him instead of being thrown straight to CHF.

 

[Monkey King]

The club who was never investigated for tanking even though one of your coaches admitted it on two separate occasions.

Most of your post was bullshit, but this in particular. Libba didn’t admit ... he accused. He couldn’t admit to anything because he didn’t have anything to admit to. He was a minor assistant coach, given the arse at the end of the year. As if he had any knowledge to admit to. And of course, this came out in the accusation ... based on a vibe, nothing of any substance whatsoever.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Most of your post was bullshit, but this in particular. Libba didn’t admit ... he accused. He couldn’t admit to anything because he didn’t have anything to admit to. He was a minor assistant coach, given the arse at the end of the year. As if he had any knowledge to admit to. And of course, this came out in the accusation ... based on a vibe, nothing of any substance whatsoever.

He was in the coaches box mate, it was enough to warrant an investigation from the AFL if they were serious. Brock McLean was not a coach either yet the AFL went full throttle after Melbourne.

Keep denying if you want but any serious footy follower knows Carlton tanked 2005-2007

 

[MarkT2]

Most of your post was bullshit, but this in particular. Libba didn’t admit ... he accused. He couldn’t admit to anything because he didn’t have anything to admit to. He was a minor assistant coach, given the arse at the end of the year. As if he had any knowledge to admit to. And of course, this came out in the accusation ... based on a vibe, nothing of any substance whatsoever.

He didn't suspect, he KNEW. To suggest a coach in the box couldn't clearly tell a team was tanking defies logic. A million other people suspected but he knew. As for investigations an the like - there is a reason Melbourne were penalised for something that wasn't tanking. The AFL wouldn't and Demetriou couldn't admit tanking existed.

 

[Monkey King]

He didn't suspect, he KNEW.

Yes. Libba’s vibe. I’ve heard it all before. That’s not admitting anything other that he had a suspicion.
He’s certainly not admitting an action, although I can see if you want to believe otherwise it’s easy to overlook the fact he said he didn’t hear anyone ever say such a thing, just that a club on the bottom of the ladder didn’t have a very competitive spirit and that players were being sent into for surgery that could otherwise have kept playing through injury. As if that makes any sense to do.

 

[MarkT2]

It's not me overlooking anything. Tanking isn't an open discussion on match day or even in match planning. Only a naive person would expect it to be but he did say more than you want to admit to. He did in fact say Carlton tanked. He was on open Mike as well as when he was on The Footy Show earlier. Of course in true AFL fashion it was investigate by Rod Austin....

If you need a jury verdict then good for you

 

[Toump Ass]

<rubbish>

Only reason Carlton didn't get investigated was because they were already decimated from the salary cap cheating penalties and any additional fines would have destroyed the club.

Given the last few years, it may have been a merciful and sensible course of action.

 

[Monkey King]

Only reason Carlton didn't get investigated was because they were already decimated from the salary cap cheating penalties and any additional fines would have destroyed the club.

But the club was going just fine at the time Libba made his comments? The AFL interviewed him and like any investigating body would do when they heard the kind ‘evidence’ he had - NONE - they rightly didn’t take it any further. I’m guessing if Libba had more than a vibe they would have.

 

[MarkT2]

How would they have? They insisted tanking was a myth. They penalied Melbourne after their coached admitted it and still didn't find they tanked. An Carlton man interviewed Libba and Demetriou's stance that tanking didn't exist was vindicated. Then they removed priority picks which were a much needed equalisation measure.

 

[Monkey King]

How would they have?

Errr ... the same way they investigated Melbourne What did the AFL’s interview with Libba reveal? Everything we already knew. Libba never heard any coaching staff ever talk about tanking, no official ever talk about tanking; he just had a “feeling”. Are you seriously suggesting one ex-assistant coach having a “feeling” warranted an investigation? Sheesh! Standards please.

The AFL removed priority picks because they knew that as long as the year existed, people were gonna accuse struggling teams of tanking. Hell, even now there’s no incentive to finish one or two spots lower, some dum dums still accuse struggling clubs of tanking.

 

[YeOldTiger]

Carlton get yet another handout from the league to help adress their deficiency in mid tier aged players because they already have a squillion top picks, so no compo draft pics, just a common sense approach to help give them a leg up with some mature bodied players. Great opportunity for a couple of smart choices and maybe pick up the next Tim Kelly (McAdam for example looks like he could be a player). But no, Carlton throw that back in the AFLs face by simply offloading them like junk. Cripps screaming out for solid midfield bodies to help out but nah, jets just burn him out and support him with 18year olds and burn them out too. Lol. Sometimes mediocrity is deserved. Spoons indefinitely.

 

[blueboy25]

Carlton get yet another handout from the league to help adress their deficiency in mid tier aged players because they already have a squillion top picks, so no compo draft pics, just a common sense approach to help give them a leg up with some mature bodied players. Great opportunity for a couple of smart choices and maybe pick up the next Tim Kelly (McAdam for example looks like he could be a player). But no, Carlton throw that back in the AFLs face by simply offloading them like junk. Cripps screaming out for solid midfield bodies to help out but nah, jets just burn him out and support him with 18year olds and burn them out too. Lol. Sometimes mediocrity is deserved. Spoons indefinitely.

You mention that Cripps is crying out for midfield bodies........so we use one of the handouts to get a solid midfield body in Setterfield who is highly rated.

We have Mckay and Curnow who are 21yo and need a mature body around them so we go and use the handout to help trade for McGovern.

So by using the handout to help us trade in mature bodies like McGoverna and Setterfield is not ok?

 

[Juddernaut08]

So Carlton have a massive whinge saying they need players 22-27 yo to support the plethora of first round pick younger players after having traded away their senior players for picks, now it sounds like they're going to trade these state listed players on for picks. Carlton should never have been given that option, or any draft assistance for that matter. Just disgraceful.

Calm down bucko. It's not a big deal.

 

[YeOldTiger]

You mention that Cripps is crying out for midfield bodies........so we use one of the handouts to get a solid midfield body in Setterfield who is highly rated.

We have Mckay and Curnow who are 21yo and need a mature body around them so we go and use the handout to help trade for McGovern.

So by using the handout to help us trade in mature bodies like McGoverna and Setterfield is not ok?

Setterfield will be close to youngest player on your list (so much for a mature body - Draft of 2016) and McGovetn is a flakey fwd. Where are the mature bodied mids that the AFL gifted you to help out?

Enjoy bottom four for the foreseeable future.

 

[FairKouta]

Setterfield will be close to youngest player on your list (so much for a mature body - Draft of 2016) and McGovetn is a flakey fwd. Where are the mature bodied mids that the AFL gifted you to help out?

Enjoy bottom four for the foreseeable future.

See you round 1 buddy

 

[YeOldTiger]

See you round 1 buddy

Oh I'll be there lol

you be in the crowd leaving at 3/4 time.

 

[FairKouta]

Oh I'll be there lol

you be in the crowd leaving at 3/4 time.

Enjoy it while it lasts.