GC17's "poaching" is not acceptable.

[BOND 007]

The report in the WA Sunday Times should provide huge concerns for all AFL clubs about the movements of GC17 in 2010. Whilst I admit reports often miss the truth by a fair way, the repercussions of innuendo and accusations that revolve around "secret signings" can really have an impact on a clubs very essence.

For those unaware, the report indicated that Campbell Brown, Gary Ablett, Trent Cotchin and Michael Hurley have all made up their mind to go north. Brown may feel aggrieved his name was associated with the Burgoyne trade and therefore bear a grudge whilst Ablett would be a fool if he didnt fill in the blank chq that GC17 are offering. However for Richmond and Essendon to lose their 1st round draft picks in 2007 (Rich) and in 2008 for Ess, it would be devastating for them as clubs. Imagine WC losing Masten or Naitanui for next to nothing.

The AFL have let down the clubs on this very badly, by not placing a moratorium on the age of the players involved. Apart from the rising star winner, no club gets a return on their investment for several years and to have 2 very young footballers like Cotchin and Hurley see their future elsewhere because of a few dollars is beyond any level of acceptance.
Even if it is not true then it is incumbant on these players to repudiate these accusations. Failure to do so will lead to the breakdown of player relationships with obvious onfield repercussions.

I agree with Nisbetts stance on this matter, name the players now and then allow the club to play or not play them depending on their choice, When Seaby made his decision to leave mid last year, WC felt correctly that there was no advantage playing him despite knowing an improved Seaby may in fact result in a better draft pick at seasons end.

These "secret deals" are abhorent and are a blight on our game. Once again it will be the "poorer" (melb, port etc) or less fashionable clubs ( Kanga's, Rich, Freo) that will bear the brunt of this player loss.

The egotistical wan*ers who are running the AFL, in their never ending money driven quest, are morphing what was once a great game that I proudly played, into a free for all where there are rules for some and rules for others.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Passionate OP.

And yes I would be mighty pissed if we were undercut by the GC and one of our youngsters like Swift, Masten, Shuey or Naita nabbed.

Considering the top WA talent such as Matera, B. Wilson, Swallow and Jack Darling, will also probably all end up there.

It is also probably breeding a strong degree of dislike for GC amongst AFL fans.

I think that there is a good chance that if GC succeed in rorting teams and play well early on the backlash created may outstrip the positives of this success.

 

[larrikin]

They'll be shit

According to the list going around they'll have one superstar, a couple of solid AFL players and a couple of 2-3 year players who look pretty good. No doubt they'll pick up a few more fringe AFL players. The rest will be kids, who will get belted week in week out. Many of the kids who get there will suffer because of that and either leave or not thrive as players.

We'll go through largely unaffected. A couple of week drafts, nothing more.

I look forward to the selection of talent looking to come home in 2-3 years.

 

[larrikin]

And on the OP, if you were starting up a club you wouldn't wait until October to start talking to people. If GC management weren't moving on players they would be derelict in their duties.

 

[Play by Numbers]

They'll be shit

According to the list going around they'll have one superstar, a couple of solid AFL players and a couple of 2-3 year players who look pretty good. No doubt they'll pick up a few more fringe AFL players. The rest will be kids, who will get belted week in week out. Many of the kids who get there will suffer because of that and either leave or not thrive as players.

We'll go through largely unaffected. A couple of week drafts, nothing more.

I look forward to the selection of talent looking to come home in 2-3 years.

Sure season 1-2 I doubt they will be great.

But I think they may improve in leaps and bounds.

I also think it will be a case of momentum.

Media pumps up their chances of scoring big names, more will consider it. Large amount of salary cap space may encourage the more mercenary.

If they improve quickly and crowds are ok I doubt players will leave, if the opposite is true then by all means I hope you are right.

I just hope our players realise the enviable position we are in and are buoyed by our history of success.

We should be challenging before the GC and I seriously back our chances.

 

[jazou]

Considering the top WA talent such as Matera, B. Wilson, Swallow and Jack Darling, will also probably all end up there.

As mentioned in another thread, hopefully they all get homesick and ask to be traded to the Eagles (and only the Eagles)....

*wakes up from dream*

 

[BOND 007]

And on the OP, if you were starting up a club you wouldn't wait until October to start talking to people. If GC management weren't moving on players they would be derelict in their duties.

Larri - I agree. However there is a difference between being upfront in their movements and having a secret list of signees that will be released "some time in the future".

This isnt about GC as they are operating within the rules set - this is about the AFL and their idiotic rules that allow players to sign and say nothing until the end of the year. The discontent, innuendo and accusations that then will arise within the various clubs have the ability in the extreme to tear the club apart.

Can you imagine how Hawthorn as a club will be this year - if suddenly in tomorrow's paper Buddy Franklin's name is mentioned as heading north. If he doesnt then come out and refute the article then the scuttlebut will occur. The relationships within the playing group can be damaged and maybe be irretrievably, when he has no intention of leaving and his only reason for saying nothing is holding out for more money by Hawthorn. He would be under enormous pressure and probably his form heads south along with the hawks play and their chances of winning a premiership.

have a look at the crap that went on in Judd's last year and magnify that

 

[Forrest Gimp]

It's bullshit I agree, but if we can avoid it ourselves, the thought of a team with no chance for a flag for the next few years scraping the cream off our contenders can only help our cause. Feel really bad for the tigers though if that happens. I'm sure they would have plenty in their salary cap in order to fend off the GC, as we should. Maybe he feels that he'll never win a flag at the Tigers...

 

[The Falcon Strike]

A vast majority of their talent is coming from about 15 months of footballers.

Looking at drafts gone by - if those kids are like the kids of 2001 and 2008 - we should be scared

If they are like 2003 draft - we'll laugh at them

I don't have an issue - they are abiding by rules set down and agreed by the clubs - now they whinge

The only thing I think they should have put in - is that GC are limited to signing 23+ players. Recruiting young recruits that other clubs have taken is a little unfair - but within the ruies

 

[EaglesFlyingHigh]

For those unaware, the report indicated that Campbell Brown, Gary Ablett, Trent Cotchin and Michael Hurley have all made up their mind to go north.

I'm pretty sure he hasn't

 

[PRANKSTER666]

I'm pretty sure he hasn't

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't know either way, but for sh1t and giggles lets all pretend you do...

 

[the fox]

If the eagles look after their players they will not go to gold coast.

 

[mehow2g]

Im really worried if Shuey goes there...

 

[sTeeL]

It will hurt the Eagles big time if we lose one of our up and comers... Big chance it will happen as well considering that we have to deal with both GC17 and GWS

 

[Play by Numbers]

It will hurt the Eagles big time if we lose one of our up and comers... Big chance it will happen as well considering that we have to deal with both GC17 and GWS

Hope not, plus I think they would be crazy to leave.

NicNat seems thoroughly an Eagle. As does Ebert and Masten. Ebert because we have shown confidence and faith in him and Masten has ties to the club.

Swift will be a gun and is from WA, Shuey has great character and could have left to return to Melb. I think the club really rate him and would go all out to keep him.

Fact is we have a history of success, cap space and are willing to give the youngsters game time and responsibility. We also have fantastic development/fitness staff and facilities with a history of helping youngsters to get the most out of themselves.

The only players I could see going would be one of Spangher, Schofield or McKinley. But I hope not because all three have a place in the team and seem like good prospects.

I honestly think we are an ideal club to be drafted to for young up and comers and offer more in terms of chance for success than the GC.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Hope not, plus I think they would be crazy to leave.

NicNat seems thoroughly an Eagle. As does Ebert and Masten. Ebert because we have shown confidence and faith in him and Masten has ties to the club.
.

Whilst NN seems like an eagle through and through - you could say the same thing about Ablett - he's got far more ties to Geelong than NN has to WC. He grew up in the clubrooms as a kid.

The reality is - i've heard Sheedy mention Naitanui's name twice now in interviews - that scares the sh1t out of me.

He is going to bring people to the game without doubt IMO. In WA he can't bring anymore people because we sell out anyway. However in GWS - he could be the face of a club and bring a whole range of people through the turnstiles.

I stand to be corrected - but i believe we renegotiated an extra year on NN's initial 2 year contract - taking him to the end of 2011. Which is when GWS will be poaching.

It would make sense if he has a good year this year that GWS might offer him $1m a year. It's not just his football - it's his overall package. If campaigner can be offered what he's getting - why not NN. I just don't think that is something we could match.

We could hope he stays - and if i read a news report that says he has signed another 2 year contract extension - i'll jump for joy.

Regardless - of all of our players - I would say NN is the most vulnerable to go.

 

[PRANKSTER666]

Even if we don't lose players this whole GC and WS thing is going to hurt us indirectly through the salary cap.

If they offer (or even allude to the fact they would offer) big money to our young emerging stars we will have to remunerate them more than we normally would to keep them which will cause us problems down the track.

I think the whole thing stinks, not just for us but what if Tigers lost Cotchin or Essendon lost Hurley, it is not ethically right.

Any GC contracts made by contracted players should and must be made public asap, that is common sense, loophole or no loophole.

 

[EagleMan87]

Not worried about Naitanui leaving. He didn't want to move interstate in the first place and has a very good head on his shoulders, he won't leave for money or glamour.

 

[mehow2g]

Whilst NN seems like an eagle through and through - you could say the same thing about Ablett - he's got far more ties to Geelong than NN has to WC. He grew up in the clubrooms as a kid.

Difference between NN and Ablett is that NN is in a team thats up and coming and probably with the brightest future.

Ablett the best player in the comp, I think he would like to use his current form at another club that will be up and coming since Geelong is on the way down.

We are the best club to be at if your 18-23 would be crazy to leave..

 

[mentalgrind]

the main one i'm worried about is naita, i've heard from several places that sheedy has him in his sights (why wouldn't he). also confirmed by a few interviews i've seen with sheedy where he's mentioned him everytime. i don't think he'll go but it's just making me a little nervous.

he's on a 3 year deal which will take him away from GC but comes out of contract the year GWS are looking to recruit their uncontracted players

 

[greennick]

the main one i'm worried about is naita, i've heard from several places that sheedy has him in his sights (why wouldn't he). also confirmed by a few interviews i've seen with sheedy where he's mentioned him everytime. i don't think he'll go but it's just making me a little nervous.

he's on a 3 year deal which will take him away from GC but comes out of contract the year GWS are looking to recruit their uncontracted players

Watch us sign him and a few other key youngsters to an extra year or two to keep GWS out of it. We did it for GC, no doubt we will do the same for them.

 

[15_year_member]

I think they are limited to one uncontracted player at each club and if so and if they have signed Brown that will mean a huge sigh of relief rather than anger from hawks management as it means that a) they don't have to worry about Franklin, Roughead, Rioli or Hodge getting poached anymore and therefore can't be blackmailed into beefing up their cotracts, and b) they get rid of a bloke that they don't want anymore in Brown. I have heard several times that he has both a gambling and drinking problem and is a very volatile and angry bloke who is very unpopular with the leadership group at hawthorn.

An interesting thing to me is this idea of the AFL compensating clubs who lose players with draft picks. Who and how do they decide what the appropriate compensation for a lost player is? That is wide open to rorting and the AFL playing favourites if you ask me (not good for us as we are not one of the favourites). And where are these draft picks going to come from? The subsequent draft are already decimated by GWS's picks. Are they going to decimate them further? If so those drafts won be worth participating in at all. Introducing two new teams back to back wih such generous draft allowances is a stupid idea. They should have allowed the comp and the draft a 3-4 year breather to recover in between GC17 and GWS. Fitzpatrick and his commsission remind me of George Bush and his war cabinet with their act first and think and plan later approach.

 

[greennick]

I think they are limited to one uncontracted player at each club and if so and if they have signed Brown that will mean a huge sigh of relief rather than anger from hawks management as it means that a) they don't have to worry about Franklin, Roughead, Rioli or Hodge getting poached anymore and therefore can't be blackmailed into beefing up their cotracts, and b) they get rid of a bloke that they don't want anymore in Brown. I have heard several times that he has both a gambling and drinking problem and is a very volatile and angry bloke who is very unpopular with the leadership group at hawthorn.

An interesting thing to me is this idea of the AFL compensating clubs who lose players with draft picks. Who and how do they decide what the appropriate compensation for a lost player is? That is wide open to rorting and the AFL playing favourites if you ask me (not good for us as we are not one of the favourites). And where are these draft picks going to come from? The subsequent draft are already decimated by GWS's picks. Are they going to decimate them further? If so those drafts won be worth participating in at all. Introducing two new teams back to back wih such generous draft allowances is a stupid idea. They should have allowed the comp and the draft a 3-4 year breather to recover in between GC17 and GWS. Fitzpatrick and his commsission remind me of George Bush and his war cabinet with their act first and think and plan later approach.

The round is decided based on some formula that takes into account best and fairest placings, AA's, some rating measure, and some other crap. The pick will be used the pick after the clubs first round draft pick.

The pick can be taken any year in the next 5. However, you need to say you will use the pick at the start of the year you intend to use it, which is a bit shit.

So, if you are the spooner in the year you decide to use your first round compensatory pick, you get picks 1 (normal) and 2 (comp) in the first round. If you are the premiers, you get picks 18 (normal) and 19 (comp).

It is not a perfect system, but not horrible.

 

[swannies]

I think they are limited to one uncontracted player at each club and if so and if they have signed Brown that will mean a huge sigh of relief rather than anger from hawks management.

An interesting thing to me is this idea of the AFL compensating clubs who lose players with draft picks. Who and how do they decide what the appropriate compensation for a lost player is? That is wide open to rorting and the AFL playing favourites if you ask me (not good for us as we are not one of the favourites).

First point is spot on and one many are forgetting. They can only target 1 uncontracted player. If they want other players they have to trade for them, like every other club, hence being given picks 1-5, 7, 9 etc. They can on trade those picks for players.

Naita may just change that second bolded point 15yr.

 

[15_year_member]

The round is decided based on some formula that takes into account best and fairest placings, AA's, some rating measure, and some other crap. The pick will be used the pick after the clubs first round draft pick.

The pick can be taken any year in the next 5. However, you need to say you will use the pick at the start of the year you intend to use it, which is a bit shit.

So, if you are the spooner in the year you decide to use your first round compensatory pick, you get picks 1 (normal) and 2 (comp) in the first round. If you are the premiers, you get picks 18 (normal) and 19 (comp).

It is not a perfect system, but not horrible.

Right. Thanks for the info. That fills in a few blanks. Formula could have a few anomalies in it still. What about recent draftees? They would have no real B&F or AA information to take into account and all their value is based or potential which is very hard to quantify with a formula. And as you say it is pretty unfair to have where you finish on the ladder that year position of the pick by up to 15 places.