Geelong or Hawthorn?

[FootyGeek]

Hawthorn.

Back to back is huge. There is a reason it is so difficult.

By a fair margin to Hawthorn.

They have still got petrol in the tank. Geelong are on the slide.

The added part is Hawthorn have been all class with their premiership wins. The Geelong boys have been pretty good overall, but they have really stunk of an entitled feel in the last two years any time any criticism has come their way. Do not handle criticism with much class these days.

Hawthorn boys have been all class and unlike Hawthorn teams of the past, full of likeable player who are not campaigners and thugs.

 

[thecatattack]

Geelong ahead. They should've threepeated but for atrocious kicking in 08.

We would've lost 09 if we won 08.

 

[Hoops]

A team that goes back to back is the superior of a team that doesn't, for the same premierships won.

Geelong were more consistently better, but they never put on a display like we did today.

'07 Grand Final

 

[JackFlash]

We lost our crown as best team of the past 15 years today. The Hawks are better because of the back to back and the way they won today. Geelong blew the chance of real greatness by failing in 2008. It's a fact we have to live with, IMO Geelong actually under performed and failed by at least one premiership in achieving an elite level of greatness. With the team they had they should've won 4 Flags minimum. Hawthorn might yet achieve a threepeat.

 

[Bayer_]

'07 Grand Final

Except Sydney are far better than Port Power.

 

[Gavin Excell]

hard to ignore the back to back

Credit to hawks winning after losing one of their best players in Franklin, Similar to Cats 2011 after the Ablett defection

its hard not to respect their club

 

[PattoMan99]

hard to ignore the back to back

Credit to hawks winning after losing one of their best players in Franklin, Similar to Cats 2011 after the Ablett defection

its hard not to respect their club

But we will try

 

[cryptor]

3/5 > 3/7.

3/3 > 3/5

/Brisbane Lions

 

[Rainfall]

Creating the dynasties:

Since 2000 up to 2014 Geelong have only drafted 4 top 10 draft picks while Hawthorn have had 9

Since 2000 Geelong have only missed the 8 four times & Hawthorn have 6
Geelong 4 (2001, 2002, 2003, 2006)
Hawthorn 6 (2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009)

During those years
Geelong finished: 12th, 9th, 12th & 10th (average 10.75 whilst missing finals)
Hawks finished: 10th, 9th, 15th, 14th, 11th & 9th (average 11.33 whilst missing finals)

Unlike Hawthorn we have had 2 Brownlow Medalists but we are both equally tied with 3-3 in Norm Smith Medalists. We are both 3-1 in Grand Finals and because Hodge and Selwood are arguably the two most courageous players I'll include that with Selwood beating Hodge 4-1

The thing that makes the above look even better is that we haven't missed a finals series unlike Hawthorn since winning our first premiership at the beginning of these dynasties, have had the least of any club of top ten draft picks in the AFL proving our youth and development system to be the best & that we had a streak over Hawthorn which proves superiority during this time.

 

[Rilian]

This was the main reason I wanted Sydney to win today, to avoid this being argued, particularly those that think this puts Hawthorn's 3 premierships above Geelong's.

Clearly I have a biased opinion (and am not 100% sober atm), but here's the reasons I'll be arguing whenever this comes up:

• The amount of records broken by Geelong over their 3 premiership years (winning streaks, GF winning margin, All Australians etc.)
• The fact the 3 premierships were over 5 years rather than 7, won more games, and never dropped out of the 8 (and still haven't).
• The head to head record between the two teams over these years.
• Hawthorn only had 6 (?) players today from the '08 team, so it's hardly the same team as part of an era.

Other points of notice:

• The fact Geelong's 3 wins came with no draft picks higher than 7, and only 1 trade of note (Ottens) rather than 1/3 of their team being developed at other clubs. For those that use the Father-Son argument I remind that all teams have access to that and our record clearly shows we develop players better than most clubs, and only one of ours was rated a first round pick at the time (Hawkins), who was ridiculed until 2011 anyway.
• Geelong were only one questionable free kick away (in '10 v Stk... WB in prelim was a bye for whoever got them) from 5 straight Grand Finals too, which many forget about.

Some (particularly Hawthorn supporters) may argue they're equal, although I disagree for the above reasons and more, I'd at least understand why. To say they're better though, you're kidding yourselves.
I'm well aware Hawthorn will still be up there in the years to come to potentially get a fourth though, then there'll be more of an argument to have here.

Anyway, thanks bookies for the $2.60 odds that I knew were for the wrong team, and I made the most of to drown my sorrows/compensate all this BS..

 

[mysainters]

Geelong.

Had to overcome lack of success prior to 07.

Harder to shake than successful clubs fans understand.

Burden of the past.

IMHO.

 

[hk89]

Grand final record now slightly favours Hawthorn due to the back to back, but partly offset by the gap from 2008 to 2013 compared to Geelong. Home and away still clearly in Geelong's favour I think. Hell, we didn't even make finals in 2009 compared to Geelong's very consistent finals record from 2007+. For mine, the H&A record for Geelong puts them slightly in front overall. If Hawthorn have a big 2015, and Geelong miss finals, might be dead even, but Geelong still have lots of improvement to come from inexperienced players, so shouldn't drop too far from this year's performance (which I think was more of a 5-6th place type performance if not for a couple of games that perhaps could - or even should - have gone the other way, but some may say the same about the prelim for Hawks this year).

Happy the topic is even up for discussion though, after 2011 I think many would have thought the comparison laughable, it is now at least an interesting discussion point, even if Cats still get the nod.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If 2008 is counted towards Hawthorn - then Geelong are still going.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Sydney Vs Hawthorn Gf and it still turns into a Geelong V Hawthorn pissing match. Keep it going boys, the less talk there is about the Swans effort today the better

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

This is one of those pointless hypotheticals that I don't see ever discussing outside of BF. Both clubs have had some amazing success, we should just enjoy it and appreciate them.

 

[hk89]

If 2008 is counted towards Hawthorn - then Geelong are still going.

A very fair point. Off the top of my head, I think you have more players still on your list from 2008 than we do? (assuming no flurry of not-yet-announced retirements). Or at least still on your list from those who played on the ground in the GF.

 

[Donkey Chop]

Hawks. And unlike Geelong, the Hawks aren't done yet

 

[WWSD]

Geelong are still better then the Hawks. One area in which Hawthorn are better then Geelong this decade is the forward line. The Hawthorn forward line would have to be the best forward line of the modern era.


Jarryd Roughead 75 goals (3.26)
Jack Gunston 58 goals (2.52)
Luke Breust 57 goals (2.28)
Total: 190 goals

 

[Righteo]

[QUOTE="Lunchlady Doris, post: 35357273, member: 24105"]This is one of those pointless hypotheticals that I don't see ever discussing outside of BF. Both clubs have had some amazing success, we should just enjoy it and appreciate them.[/QUOTE]

Why would you though? Until today it hasn't been relevant, now that both sides have 3 flags in a similar time frame it's a legitimate discussion.

I suppose you've never heard or seen Brisbane's three-peat era compared with Geelong's era either?

 

[tenderwarrior]

Geelong were more consistently better, but they never put on a display like we did today.

That is a ridiculous statement. In 2007 we won by 119 points!

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Why would you though? Until today it hasn't been relevant, now that both sides have 3 flags in a similar time frame it's a legitimate discussion.

I suppose you've never heard or seen Brisbane's three-peat era compared with Geelong's era either?

Maybe re-read my post, until you understand it.

No, I haven't bothered comparing Brisbane and Geelong's eras with anyone in real life either.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

That is a ridiculous statement. In 2007 we won by 119 points!

Bayer gets carried away a bit sometimes.

 

[NickoST]

Geelong for me. I've never seen a more dominant and nastier team. I've caught myself a few times whilst watching Geelong saying "Just stop the game this ain't fair". They literally made opposition teams look like a bunch of school kids.

Hawthorn have been great, but they have never given me the same impression.

 

[worthy]

We lost our crown as best team of the past 15 years today. The Hawks are better because of the back to back and the way they won today. Geelong blew the chance of real greatness by failing in 2008. It's a fact we have to live with, IMO Geelong actually under performed and failed by at least one premiership in achieving an elite level of greatness. With the team they had they should've won 4 Flags minimum. Hawthorn might yet achieve a threepeat.

Geelong most definitely achieved an elite level of greatness, whether another team equals, goes beyond, or just falls short is irrelevant.

 

[barmy44]

Geelong most definitely achieved an elite level of greatness, whether another team equals, goes beyond, or just falls short is irrelevant.

agreed... ive tried to make this point before. its bizarre that someone would see an achievement by the club they support as diminished somehow by another achieving more.