Geelong Sliding Doors

[PzBlinky]

We had him signed to us for years under the old “Form 4” regime and came very close.

Would have been as big - or bigger - than Bosustow, Rioli, the Krakouers, or Kernahan in terms of big 1980s interstate recruits had we got him.

From the man himself:

“With his considerable success at WAFL and State level, his profile as one of the best ruckmen in Australia saw VFL clubs keen to lure him east. Geelong were the frontrunners, but for Michael his loyalty was with his family and not necessarily the glory of a VFL contract:"Geelong were very, very close. I went over to Geelong and we went out to some bloke's farm for a BBQ in the middle of winter. He was trying to convince me to come over to Geelong and it was pouring rain. Geelong were good to me but my family was my main thing and sport came second. I just thought it would take mum and dad four hours to fly to Melbourne and it only takes two to drive from Kojonup."

Stephen Michael

OzFooty.net Western Australian Football League, WAFL, AFL and A-league

ozfooty.net

So the whole "show 'em the farm" isn't a new thing after all?

 

[dudusmaximus]

So the whole "show 'em the farm" isn't a new thing after all?

My thoughts exactly! This "Farmacy" (Farm Diplomacy) seems to have been the mainstay of our recruitment for eons..

 

[rapidfire7]

Something which rarely comes up is the incredbly unfair advantage West Coast had when they joined the VFL/AFL in 1987.

From my understanding, they were essentially granted free reign to recruit as many players as they wanted from the WAFL, thus enabling them to build an absolute super team in the early 1990s.

You could almost argue that it was Geelong vs Western Australia in the 1992 & 1994 Grand Finals. How is that fair?

How they were allowed such an enormous leg up is beyond me, especially when you compare them with what the Bears got at the same time, and the Dockers in 1995. Most definitely cost us at least 1 Premiership from this period.

 

[rapidfire7]

Geelong doesn't blow a grand a game on Brian Peake, and can later afford to keep Greg Williams.

Could we really not afford to pay him the extra 5 Grand a year he requested? Or, were we just being a little tight thinking he wouldn't go?

Whatever the exact circumstances, losing Williams really was a disaster for the club.

A disaster, which could have quite possibly made the difference in some of those lost Grand Finals, or in even helping us get there in 1991 or 1993 perhaps. Painful to think about all the what ifs.

 

[iameviljez]

Could we really not afford to pay him the extra 5 Grand a year he requested? Or, were we just being a little tight thinking he wouldn't go?

We were ****ed, and less than a year later, we were completely insolvent, as were another half-dozen clubs, plus the actual VFL itself. If we were a regular company, we would have been wound up.

I suspect that it's not so much that we couldn't afford the $5k as that we couldn't afford the other $45k, either.

 

[Tony Barber]

Could we really not afford to pay him the extra 5 Grand a year he requested? Or, were we just being a little tight thinking he wouldn't go?

Whatever the exact circumstances, losing Williams really was a disaster for the club.

A disaster, which could have quite possibly made the difference in some of those lost Grand Finals, or in even helping us get there in 1991 or 1993 perhaps. Painful to think about all the what ifs.

Mate, we walked into Alex' office and asked him if he could pay the players wages that week.
Because we couldn't.

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

What about 1997 if Grant Vernon hadn't paid that free kick against us at Football Park?

OK Lynch was out for the season by then so we were up against it with our luck but that isn't paid, we face to the Dogs in a prelim and then the Saints? 97 haunts me more than most others because that was the last chance for Hocking, Couch, Brownless, Stoneham etc etc. Granted, Billy and Couch were cooked by then and didn't see the season out.

 

[Hinkley29]

Could we really not afford to pay him the extra 5 Grand a year he requested? Or, were we just being a little tight thinking he wouldn't go?

Whatever the exact circumstances, losing Williams really was a disaster for the club.

A disaster, which could have quite possibly made the difference in some of those lost Grand Finals, or in even helping us get there in 1991 or 1993 perhaps. Painful to think about all the what ifs.

I have never fully believed the narrative that Williams left because we couldn’t pay him an extra $5k. He was a very ambitious player, who knew he was good. If we found the money (which we didn’t have) Sydney would have just increased the offer. And if he stayed for one more year he would have left at the next opportunity. Geelong was simply a club that couldn’t match his ambition, he was always destined to leave. I don’t see any scenario where Williams was a long term Geelong player.

It is like Mumford saying he wouldn’t have left if he played in the 2007 Gf. He didn’t leave because he didn’t play, he left because Sydney were offering massive overs for an unproven player. Good luck to him, and well played by Sydney, but his reasoning for leaving was just BS. He just didn’t want to admit publicly that he was chasing the money.

There is a lot of revisionist history written in AFL trade circles.

 

[Hinkley29]

Something which rarely comes up is the incredbly unfair advantage West Coast had when they joined the VFL/AFL in 1987.

From my understanding, they were essentially granted free reign to recruit as many players as they wanted from the WAFL, thus enabling them to build an absolute super team in the early 1990s.

You could almost argue that it was Geelong vs Western Australia in the 1992 & 1994 Grand Finals. How is that fair?

How they were allowed such an enormous leg up is beyond me, especially when you compare them with what the Bears got at the same time, and the Dockers in 1995. Most definitely cost us at least 1 Premiership from this period.

It was the epitome of VFL arrogance. They firmly believed that WA footy was second rate and that even a state team couldn’t compete week in week out against the mighty vic clubs.

Plus they needed the entrance fee that WC and Brisbane were going to pay to keep 50%+ of the vfl clubs solvent.

It was for the best though. The eagles were instantly successful and it set the tone immediately for a truly competitive national competition.

 

[Stab Pass]

I have never fully believed the narrative that Williams left because we couldn’t pay him an extra $5k. He was a very ambitious player, who knew he was good. If we found the money (which we didn’t have) Sydney would have just increased the offer. And if he stayed for one more year he would have left at the next opportunity. Geelong was simply a club that couldn’t match his ambition, he was always destined to leave. I don’t see any scenario where Williams was a long term Geelong player.

It is like Mumford saying he wouldn’t have left if he played in the 2007 Gf. He didn’t leave because he didn’t play, he left because Sydney were offering massive overs for an unproven player. Good luck to him, and well played by Sydney, but his reasoning for leaving was just BS. He just didn’t want to admit publicly that he was chasing the money.

There is a lot of revisionist history written in AFL trade circles.

Ok, this goes back to conversations had 40 years ago, but when he departed, Geelong were very dirty on Williams. In his first year he did his knee and missed half the season. Geelong paid him for the games he missed even though they didn't have to. They knew they had a good player and looked after him. When he took the offer from Sydney there was a fair bit of unhappiness that he hadn't done the right thing given the club had looked after him the previous year. The conversation prior to the 1986 season was that Williams was a loss but that Couch was as good and a better clubman.

 

[Pollywaffle]

There is a lot of revisionist history written in AFL trade circles.

So many interesting alternate universes possible.
I wonder which team would benefit the most, or which has had the most regrets…Another thread maybe?

 

[iameviljez]

It is like Mumford saying he wouldn’t have left if he played in the 2009 Gf. He didn’t leave because he didn’t play, he left because Sydney were offering massive overs for an unproven player. Good luck to him, and well played by Sydney, but his reasoning for leaving was just BS. He just didn’t want to admit publicly that he was chasing the money.

I really disagree with this (which is unusual because you and I normally agree IIRC).

Mumford didn't just leave for the money - he left because he would have been an idiot not to leave. Not only was Sydney paying him more ca$h, but in going to Sydney, he also managed to secure himself an AFL career which was, at the time, far from guaranteed at Geelong.

Mumford was the third-choice backup ruckman behind Ottens, who was only 29 at the time, and Mark Blake, who was 24. Mumford had looked decent, and was too good for the VFL, but hadn't managed to establish himself as a senior AFL footballer.

Sydney - knowing Jolly was on the way out - had no recognised ruckman in his way. It guaranteed him full-time AFL football, a long contract, and above all, the best shot he had at a career. It proved to be the making of him.

Mumford might, of course, have been the same footballer if he'd stayed. But he could have also wound up like Trent West - stuck playing second and third fiddle for too long.

 

[Hinkley29]

I really disagree with this (which is unusual because you and I normally agree IIRC).

Mumford didn't just leave for the money - he left because he would have been an idiot not to leave. Not only was Sydney paying him more ca$h, but in going to Sydney, he also managed to secure himself an AFL career which was, at the time, far from guaranteed at Geelong.

Mumford was the third-choice backup ruckman behind Ottens, who was only 29 at the time, and Mark Blake, who was 24. Mumford had looked decent, and was too good for the VFL, but hadn't managed to establish himself as a senior AFL footballer.

Sydney - knowing Jolly was on the way out - had no recognised ruckman in his way. It guaranteed him full-time AFL football, a long contract, and above all, the best shot he had at a career. It proved to be the making of him.

Mumford might, of course, have been the same footballer if he'd stayed. But he could have also wound up like Trent West - stuck playing second and third fiddle for too long.

He may have left for more opportunity. He definitely left for more money. And if he came out and said that I would have respected him.

But he made up a BS reason that he left because he didn’t play in the GF (even though he had no right to play in the GF given the other option we had available). Just be honest and all is good.

Then he went on to make a career as a cheap shot artist who blindsided much smaller players in physical contests, whilst avoiding physicality in contests against full sized opponents.

I am clearly biased, he is not a favourite of mine. Massively overrated.

 

[Pollywaffle]

He may have left for more opportunity. He definitely left for more money. And if he came out and said that I would have respected him.

But he made up a BS reason that he left because he didn’t play in the GF (even though he had no right to play in the GF given the other option we had available). Just be honest and all is good.

Then he went on to make a career as a cheap shot artist who blindsided much smaller players in physical contests, whilst avoiding physicality in contests against full sized opponents.

I am clearly biased, he is not a favourite of mine. Massively overrated.

Mitch Duncan endorses this post..

 

[iameviljez]

He may have left for more opportunity. He definitely left for more money. And if he came out and said that I would have respected him.

But he made up a BS reason that he left because he didn’t play in the GF (even though he had no right to play in the GF given the other option we had available). Just be honest and all is good.

Then he went on to make a career as a cheap shot artist who blindsided much smaller players in physical contests, whilst avoiding physicality in contests against full sized opponents.

I am clearly biased, he is not a favourite of mine. Massively overrated.

Yeah, but couldn't that one sentence just be linked to being a regular AFL footballer?
Similar to Prismall, and Blake in '07 - you're not in the first team unless you're picked there on the last day in September.

 

[Hinkley29]

Yeah, but couldn't that one sentence just be linked to being a regular AFL footballer?
Similar to Prismall, and Blake in '07 - you're not in the first team unless you're picked there on the last day in September.

Blake nor prismall never made up a BS excuse for why they left the club.

all Mumford had to do was be honest, but he didn’t want to deal with the issue head on. Kind of like how he was rarely if ever physical on a field unless he was blindsiding someone or had a 15+ kg weight advantage (or preferably both).

 

[Gavin Excell]

I have never fully believed the narrative that Williams left because we couldn’t pay him an extra $5k. He was a very ambitious player, who knew he was good. If we found the money (which we didn’t have) Sydney would have just increased the offer. And if he stayed for one more year he would have left at the next opportunity. Geelong was simply a club that couldn’t match his ambition, he was always destined to leave. I don’t see any scenario where Williams was a long term Geelong player.

It is like Mumford saying he wouldn’t have left if he played in the 2007 Gf. He didn’t leave because he didn’t play, he left because Sydney were offering massive overs for an unproven player. Good luck to him, and well played by Sydney, but his reasoning for leaving was just BS. He just didn’t want to admit publicly that he was chasing the money.

There is a lot of revisionist history written in AFL trade circles.

He was an arseh*le too Williams lets be honest

 

[Gavin Excell]

Blake nor prismall never made up a BS excuse for why they left the club.

all Mumford had to do was be honest, but he didn’t want to deal with the issue head on. Kind of like how he was rarely if ever physical on a field unless he was blindsiding someone or had a 15+ kg weight advantage (or preferably both).

Just on the BS excuse for leaving has Leif Colbert ever disclosed his reasons for leaving?
I remember when he left he said in time he would explain the rationale but I.must have missed this

It was a pretty pivotal time for the club. Debt mounting and both coach and captain fleeing

 

[Gordon Farkas]

Just on the BS excuse for leaving has Leif Colbert ever disclosed his reasons for leaving?
I remember when he left he said in time he would explain the rationale but I.must have missed this

No, he hasn’t.

BTW: Who the f*ck wrote this sh*t?
And may I please have some of whatever it is they’re smoking:

Where Are They Now: Leigh Colbert

I don’t think I was anything super when it came to ability, I just worked. I think too I was very fortunate to play with guys who I think are some of the all-time guys who you wouldn’t have liked to have let down.

www.nmfc.com.au

“When a footballer plays for more than one club, it’s rare that they become, and remain, universally appreciated by both sets of fans.

“Leigh Colbert is one of these rare cases, with his courageous style of football seeing him become an icon of both Geelong and North Melbourne”

 

[iameviljez]

Just on the BS excuse for leaving has Leif Colbert ever disclosed his reasons for leaving?
I remember when he left he said in time he would explain the rationale but I.must have missed this

It was a pretty pivotal time for the club. Debt mounting and both coach and captain fleeing

I don’t blame Colbert in the slightest - the club was going nowhere fast, the older group didn’t want him as captain, it was clear enough that Ayres wasn’t the right coach at the time.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yeah, but couldn't that one sentence just be linked to being a regular AFL footballer?
Similar to Prismall, and Blake in '07 - you're not in the first team unless you're picked there on the last day in September.

To be fair Mumford was offered huge $ and a starting spot at a decent club plus he saw how the club was about to push out a former captain in King to keep Blake happy and he probably figured he would be last choice of the rucks behind Blake too. He wasn't to know that 12 months later the afl would bring in the sub rule and start to cap interchanges which ended Blake's career more than any other player in the league. Had he known that he maybe would have stayed and after 12 months he would have been our first choice ruck and we would have won at least one more flag with him.

I understand why he went though it was hard not to.

 

[iameviljez]

To be fair Mumford was offered huge $ and a starting spot at a decent club plus he saw how the club was about to push out a former captain in King to keep Blake happy and he probably figured he would be last choice of the rucks behind Blake too. He wasn't to know that 12 months later the afl would bring in the sub rule and start to cap interchanges which ended Blake's career more than any other player in the league. Had he known that he maybe would have stayed and after 12 months he would have been our first choice ruck and we would have won at least one more flag with him.

I understand why he went though it was hard not to.

Completely agree with you, that was my starting point in the thread with Hinkley29.

He would have been mad not to go. With Jolly gone from Sydney, he immediately became first choice, had a good salary, and in other words had every chance to cement an AFL career.

We also weren't to know that Ottens was going to retire 2 years later.