Geelong - Too old, too slow?

[Falcon3518]

the opportunity cost is better focused on players such as Dalhaus than selwood

Bruh, Dalhaus is 30 this year. Idk what you’re on about. Cats should dump him this year. Kids means early 20s or less


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[PhatBoy]

Bruh, Dalhaus is 30 this year. Idk what you’re on about. Cats should dump him this year. Kids means early 20s or less


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

?????

The post you’re replying to is literally saying ‘you should be focusing on why they are playing Dahlhaus ahead of a kid instead of focusing on why they are playing Selwood instead of a kid.’ And he’s right.

 

[Falcon3518]

?????

The post you’re replying to is literally saying ‘you should be focusing on why they are playing Dahlhaus ahead of a kid instead of focusing on why they are playing Selwood instead of a kid.’ And he’s right.

Oops yeah, sorry. You should be dump them both. I think a big overhaul of your list soon would be beneficial to you guys in the long run. I definitely want one for us.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Crankyhawk]

Oops yeah, sorry. You should be dump them both. I think a big overhaul of your list soon would be beneficial to you guys in the long run. I definitely want one for us.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

it doesn't work to throw out all the old players at once though - see Melbourne in the early 2010s

 

[Falcon3518]

it doesn't work to throw out all the old players at once though - see Melbourne in the early 2010s

Unless they are excellent like Hawkins, get rid of everybody who won’t be in your next flag tilt. Usually this is players out of their prime like 30+


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[PhatBoy]

Unless they are excellent like Hawkins, get rid of everybody who won’t be in your next flag tilt. Usually this is players out of their prime like 30+


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

As the club has made a conscious decision to keep trying to win, why would they do that.

If they have fallen out of finals and are uncompetitive yeah of course you look to the future.

You don’t look to that future unless you need to.

Look at the England cricket side. Trying to push their two best bowlers into retirement at the cost of being able to compete in series and matches they should’ve at least competed in or won. As Cricinfo defined it, ‘building for a future that never arrives.’ Carlton did the same thing for 20 years

The ball doesn’t know the age of the bloke kicking it. If they are still league standard and earning their place in the side on merit, they should be picked in all but the most extreme rebuild cases

 

[Falcon3518]

As the club has made a conscious decision to keep trying to win, why would they do that.

If they have fallen out of finals and are uncompetitive yeah of course you look to the future.

You don’t look to that future unless you need to.

Look at the England cricket side. Trying to push their two best bowlers into retirement at the cost of being able to compete in series and matches they should’ve at least competed in or won. As Cricinfo defined it, ‘building for a future that never arrives.’ Carlton did the same thing for 20 years

The ball doesn’t know the age of the bloke kicking it. If they are still league standard and earning their place in the side on merit, they should be picked in all but the most extreme rebuild cases

Yeah it really depends if you think you are contending or not. You guys do so it makes sense you keep them, I don’t think you guys can so I’d get rid of them. I guess we’ll see what happens, the one thing you don’t want to do is to be stuck in no mans land.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah it really depends if you think you are contending or not. You guys do so it makes sense you keep them, I don’t think you guys can so I’d get rid of them. I guess we’ll see what happens, the one thing you don’t want to do is to be stuck in no mans land.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Again though the club itself and its hierarchy has made a conscious decision that they are still trying to win so picking someone who has polled Coaches votes in two of his four matches this year, and was instrumental in the last quarter comeback during one of the other two games, probably isn’t the terrible decision that’s being suggested.


Hell, even teams who HAVE rebuilt - look at Brisbane. They didn’t keep a veteran at the cigarette end of his career, they literally brought one in (Hodge) to play with their young list. Didn’t seem to hurt them. Why would
playing Selwood in an old list be the cause of particular pain? I can see a lot more damage being done by picking players like Dahlhaus over our next group than there is from picking Selwood

 

[Warhorse]

Got to remember what Geelong is trying to achieve. The club doesn't care about flags. They just want to stay up the ladder high enough to extract as much money from supports as possible. They will keep Selwood another year if it helps the bottom line

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Selwood yesterday reminded me of Hodges’s last year with us - the will and mind are there but the body just isn’t. Hodge did a lot of kicks off the ground that year because he couldn’t get down to pick up the ball in time. That and turning circle. I’m not sure the Cats can carry an aging Selwood and an injured Danger against the better teams.

That’s the other thing - we aren’t a good team yet. We’re young and will have moments but that team the Cats had out should have smashed us in the middle - and didn’t;

Teams lose to lesser teams every week, it happens. It's not some signifier of anything larger at play, sorry to break it to you.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Yeah I went to see Geelong vs Collingwood a few weeks ago as an impartial and thought the same thing. He looked shot, and doing things I'd never associated with Selwood, like panicking in possession and coughing up the footy cheaply. Surely it must be his final season?

He got caught with the pill in both games - but was also huge in the contest, sparked Geelong's last quarter and their 2nd on Monday.

Weird what people will see, or not, depending on their disposition.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

the opportunity cost is better focused on players such as Dalhaus than selwood

And bloody Miers, spare me.

 

[mrmonkey]

Hawthorn aren't that bad of a team, are in the eight and have only really had one bad game and a bad quarter that cost them a game. I reckon they are big chance next week against Sydney in Tassie.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Hawthorn aren't that bad of a team, are in the eight and have only really had one bad game and a bad quarter that cost them a game. I reckon they are big chance next week against Sydney in Tassie.

Mitch Lewis has done his hammy

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

An absolute gimme in a final for a side with any speed/contested ball winning ability

 

[Bunnings]

An absolute gimme in a final for a side with any speed/contested ball winning ability

It’s an indictment on the other clubs if Geelong play finals from reading posts on this thread


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[mrmonkey]

Mitch Lewis has done his hammy

Well that's a blow, still think hawthorn are a good chance next week. Also think hawthorn could make the eight, it's a pretty even comp.

 

[Falcon3518]

Again though the club itself and its hierarchy has made a conscious decision that they are still trying to win so picking someone who has polled Coaches votes in two of his four matches this year, and was instrumental in the last quarter comeback during one of the other two games, probably isn’t the terrible decision that’s being suggested.


Hell, even teams who HAVE rebuilt - look at Brisbane. They didn’t keep a veteran at the cigarette end of his career, they literally brought one in (Hodge) to play with their young list. Didn’t seem to hurt them. Why would
playing Selwood in an old list be the cause of particular pain? I can see a lot more damage being done by picking players like Dahlhaus over our next group than there is from picking Selwood

Yeah I know that you guys are still going for it which is why you are still playing the old guys.

Imo you aren’t contenders and you guys are playing too many oldies at the cost of young kids, hindering development. History is also littered with examples of teams topping up their list for too long to contend which inevitably leads to a massive cliff/drought. Eg Lions post 04 and Hawks post 16. (They have just started rebuilding now and are already in a 7 year drought). You guys are at 11 and haven’t even started yet.

Players like Dalhaus at a minimum should be gone at the end of the year, and I would add Selwood in that list. And yes, damage is being done with Selwood it’s just minimal compared to players like Dalhaus.

Honest question Jack and Cotch are best 22 for us, do you think we should keep them after this year?




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah I know that you guys are still going for it which is why you are still playing the old guys.

Imo you aren’t contenders and you guys are playing too many oldies at the cost of young kids, hindering development. History is also littered with examples of teams topping up their list for too long to contend which inevitably leads to a massive cliff/drought. Eg Lions post 04 and Hawks post 16. (They have just started rebuilding now and are already in a 7 year drought). You guys are at 11 and haven’t even started yet.

Players like Dalhaus at a minimum should be gone at the end of the year, and I would add Selwood in that list. And yes, damage is being done with Selwood it’s just minimal compared to players like Dalhaus.

Honest question Jack and Cotch are best 22 for us, do you think we should keep them after this year?




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Yes.

 

[Falcon3518]

Yes.

Ok, I wouldn’t. I think we should just agree to disagree on this matter.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[staffonly]

An absolute gimme in a final for a side with any speed/contested ball winning ability

Garbage. If Tom Stewart didn't get injured last season the finish top then who knows what would have happened.

 

[footyfan1978]

Cats in similar position to my Carlton team of 1995 and 96 where best players are towards end of their career. Sticks, Diesel, Madden, Bradley, Silvagni, Spalding, Dean, Hanna etc etc. and when you in that position you need to win the flag in draft era to try to deal with the downside of your list profile for long term is out of balance with very old stars because once they all retire, it not possible to replace such elite level of list because too old to trade to exchange for draft picks and you are not going to have anywhere near enough early draft picks because you are nowhere near the bottom. If you win the flag you can kind of stomach the slide that will happen but as a fan there no way I happy with having list weighted this way.
Cats with Selwood, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Tuohy, Higgins, Smith, Duncan, Dalhaus, Rohan, Cameron, Blicavs etc etc clearly have to win the flag this year like we did in 1995 to stomach the fact there going to be more talent leaving soon that not possible to replace in short to medium term.
There will have to be a proper build through draft after this season for sure. I kind of expected it last off season but seems the delayed it to have one last tilt.
I think their recruiting team consciously are fully aware of this and you would expect the coach and board accept this is their reality.
If they win the flag but then spend next five years slowly trying to build a talented list you can stomach it because in 18 club league the expected flag should be 1 in 18 years.

 

[PhatBoy]

Cats in similar position to my Carlton team of 1995 and 96 where best players are towards end of their career. Sticks, Diesel, Madden, Bradley, Silvagni, Spalding, Dean, Hanna etc etc. and when you in that position you need to win the flag in draft era to try to deal with the downside of your list profile for long term is out of balance with very old stars because once they all retire, it not possible to replace such elite level of list because too old to trade to exchange for draft picks and you are not going to have anywhere near enough early draft picks because you are nowhere near the bottom. If you win the flag you can kind of stomach the slide that will happen but as a fan there no way I happy with having list weighted this way.
Cats with Selwood, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Tuohy, Higgins, Smith, Duncan, Dalhaus, Rohan, Cameron, Blicavs etc etc clearly have to win the flag this year like we did in 1995 to stomach the fact there going to be more talent leaving soon that not possible to replace in short to medium term.
There will have to be a proper build through draft after this season for sure. I kind of expected it last off season but seems the delayed it to have one last tilt.
I think their recruiting team consciously are fully aware of this and you would expect the coach and board accept this is their reality.
If they win the flag but then spend next five years slowly trying to build a talented list you can stomach it because in 18 club league the expected flag should be 1 in 18 years.

Some merit in what you are saying but even after holding on to all those players Carlton made finals in 96, missed in 97-98 then made them again 3 years in a row including a run in 2000 that saw you win what, 14(?) games in a row?

 

[mrmonkey]

Cats in similar position to my Carlton team of 1995 and 96 where best players are towards end of their career. Sticks, Diesel, Madden, Bradley, Silvagni, Spalding, Dean, Hanna etc etc. and when you in that position you need to win the flag in draft era to try to deal with the downside of your list profile for long term is out of balance with very old stars because once they all retire, it not possible to replace such elite level of list because too old to trade to exchange for draft picks and you are not going to have anywhere near enough early draft picks because you are nowhere near the bottom. If you win the flag you can kind of stomach the slide that will happen but as a fan there no way I happy with having list weighted this way.
Cats with Selwood, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Tuohy, Higgins, Smith, Duncan, Dalhaus, Rohan, Cameron, Blicavs etc etc clearly have to win the flag this year like we did in 1995 to stomach the fact there going to be more talent leaving soon that not possible to replace in short to medium term.
There will have to be a proper build through draft after this season for sure. I kind of expected it last off season but seems the delayed it to have one last tilt.
I think their recruiting team consciously are fully aware of this and you would expect the coach and board accept this is their reality.
If they win the flag but then spend next five years slowly trying to build a talented list you can stomach it because in 18 club league the expected flag should be 1 in 18 years.

Geelong are nowhere near that Carlton side

 

[footyfan1978]

Some merit in what you are saying but even after holding on to all those players Carlton made finals in 96, missed in 97-98 then made them again 3 years in a row including a run in 2000 that saw you win what, 14(?) games in a row?

13, but in saying that we got a bit of luck of two champs in Bradley and SOS extending their careers beyond what you can normally expect and a lucky father-son option of Whitnall which normally you would need early pick for. That 2000 was around about when salary cap issues origins. None of this you should have in a solid drafting/salary cap era list management strategy.