Banter Geelong V Richmond - GO!

[Wosh]

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk.

Keep it clean and above the shorts
Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

 

[PhatBoy]

Reminds me of Cam Mooney except Lynch didn’t cost his team a dynasty.

It was Corey Enright a few days ago.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Just keep giving it your best, man. Not sure what else you want here.

I like pointing out the fact that 3 in 4 in an 18 team comp beats a 3 in 5 in a 16 team comp.
If you respond to this comment I know I live in your head rent free.

 

[Mr Meow]

I like pointing out the fact that 3 in 4 in an 18 team comp beats a 3 in 5 in a 16 team comp.
If you respond to this comment I know I live in your head rent free.

Cool. You need this so I responded because I feel sorry for you.

Bolded is how a psychopath speaks, by the way. Or the loneliest person in the world.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Cool. You need this so I responded because I feel sorry for you.

Rent free

Goodnight Mother Teresa hope you have a good one. You seem like you need it

 

[Mr Meow]

Rent free

Goodnight Mother Teresa hope you have a good one.

Why are you wishing me good night like a weirdo? You constantly beg me to reply to you and honestly the whole thing has gotten really sad. If I've given you the impression we were pals or something, i apologise.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Why are you wishing me good night like a weirdo? You constantly beg me to reply to you and honestly the whole thing has gotten really sad. If I've given you the impression we were pals or something, i apologise.

Nah I feel bad so I’ll get you this nice gift for Christmas…

 

[Whiskers]

Why is this thread still going? Surely our fans have better things to do than argue with fans who support the worst club in the league?

We use to just stay quiet and feel sorry for them.

 

[Mr Meow]

Nah I feel bad so I’ll get you this nice gift for Christmas…

See you still need me to acknowledge you. I haven't specifically addressed any meaningless trolling, but you still want to keep talking.

It's really, really weird.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Why is this thread still going? Surely our fans have better things to do than argue with fans who support the worst club in the league?

We use to just stay quiet and feel sorry for them.

Lol Geelol were trounced in 3 finals by the worst club in the league. You are more of a basket case than even I thought.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Must be All-Australian week.

 

[Cdog71]

Pretty much everything we talk about on here is pointless and almost none of it is 100% objective. All you can do is be the best team of any given year/era. You would always have to assume "older" teams had access to modern science and training in any hypothetical play off too. Which comes back to the old argument of "well current day NM would spank the '90s Eagles" etc. Depends which way you look at it. If you are teleporting one side into another era or accepting some sort of relativity. All I know is at the time those 4 sides Geelong lost to were considered pretty amazing teams (or having amazing seasons). A lot of Hall of Fame careers for players of those teams. For the sides Richmond beat, I guess by default Geelong would be the closest to that as we did have Hawkins, Selwood, Dangefield and Stewart. But it quickly fell off from players 9-22. Which is why they were good but not great sides. Even the 2022 version was still just a good side but this time with a great instead of poor forward line, and two jets on the wings.

2022 Geelong vs any of the Richmond flag sides would've been good to watch. No Richmond supporter will agree but that Cats side had the forward line weapons and midfield balance that would've seriously tested the Tigers.

At the risk of not being Banter’y enough.
It is about players but it’s also more than players and you alluded to it earlier talking about oppo’s inability to deal with the way Hardwick played his team.
22 Geelong like the entire competition had 4plus seasons to watch how Hardwick played. But it still has to be dealt with. And that Hardwick style still has to preform. The 90’s Eagles team IMO should have won more flags..they didn’t preform.

The arguement of talented players
from yesteryear…I’ve read other Cats posters say that Ronnie Burns was one of the best players in his era.
He may have been one of the most talented but Im not sure he got a everything out of himself and I think there is more of that in the 80’s and 90’s than today.
That’s what players need to do today to get a spot on a list.

Put it this way rather than dropping Ronnie Burns into modern football, how do you think Blicvas would go back then?
6,5” won an AA playing on the back shoulder of a CHF and out running him. Can play on a wing, play in the Ruck, plays at stoppages.
But is he a good footballer?
Against Bris at the start of the season Mcarthy nicked two goals in the second quarter so Scott put Blicvas on him. Mcarthy is 5,10”.
It’s crazy how he’s used but he’s not a footballer that any junior would probably model their game on.
I don’t think of him as a complete footballer, he’s a difference maker by being negative.
He may be one of the first magnets on the board but would he get a game in 80’s, 90’s?
I dont think so.

 

[Cleansweep17]

At the risk of not being Banter’y enough.
It is about players but it’s also more than players and you alluded to it earlier talking about oppo’s inability to deal with the way Hardwick played his team.
22 Geelong like the entire competition had 4plus seasons to watch how Hardwick played. But it still has to be dealt with. And that Hardwick style still has to preform. The 90’s Eagles team IMO should have won more flags..they didn’t preform.

The arguement of talented players
from yesteryear…I’ve read other Cats posters say that Ronnie Burns was one of the best players in his era.
He may have been one of the most talented but Im not sure he got a everything out of himself and I think there is more of that in the 80’s and 90’s than today.
That’s what players need to do today to get a spot on a list.

Put it this way rather than dropping Ronnie Burns into modern football, how do you think Blicvas would go back then?
6,5” won an AA playing on the back shoulder of a CHF and out running him. Can play on a wing, play in the Ruck, plays at stoppages.
But is he a good footballer?
Against Bris at the start of the season Mcarthy nicked two goals in the second quarter so Scott put Blicvas on him. Mcarthy is 5,10”.
It’s crazy how he’s used but he’s not a footballer that any junior would probably model their game on.
I don’t think of him as a complete footballer, he’s a difference maker by being negative.
He may be one of the first magnets on the board but would he get a game in 80’s, 90’s?
I dont think so.

I personally think the argument that you have to assume that older players have access to the same tech or whatever to today is dumb. It makes it impossible to have a rational argument cause nobody can know that. I’ve even heard people say you have to assume their biological structure would change like their height and weight. At which point it just becomes a whole new person.

If you notice this argument mainly comes from a person who’s club had there best player/players years ago. I.e Geelong with GAS and Pies with Coventry. So imo it’s a coping attempt to always make said player relevant.

I’ve noticed with Richmond supporters we don’t do that. We all accept KB wouldn’t be as good as he was back then if he played today. We don’t pretend he’d grow half a foot add 10kg of muscle and still have the same skills to compete because that’s idiocy.

 

[PhatBoy]

I personally think the argument that you have to assume that older players have access to the same tech or whatever to today is dumb. It makes it impossible to have a rational argument cause nobody can know that. I’ve even heard people say you have to assume their biological structure would change like their height and weight. At which point it just becomes a whole new person.

If you notice this argument mainly comes from a person who’s club had there best player/players years ago. I.e Geelong with GAS and Pies with Coventry. So imo it’s a coping attempt to always make said player relevant.

I’ve noticed with Richmond supporters we don’t do that. We all accept KB wouldn’t be as good as he was back then if he played today. We don’t pretend he’d grow half a foot add 10kg of muscle and still have the same skills to compete because that’s idiocy.

Sooooo….. it’s a coping attempt when it’s other clubs wanting their players to be relevant, but when you want people to acknowledge achievements of your own club and it’s so called legends etc from those same eras, it suddenly becomes relevant?

Yes mate, that’s what everyone is doing when they have a discussion where they disagree with you: they’re ’coping’ with something:

Their real lives and normal issues that normal people face, don’t matter.

It’s this stuff that matters and that they have to ‘cope’ with

 

[Cdog71]

I personally think the argument that you have to assume that older players have access to the same tech or whatever to today is dumb. It makes it impossible to have a rational argument cause nobody can know that. I’ve even heard people say you have to assume their biological structure would change like their height and weight. At which point it just becomes a whole new person.

If you notice this argument mainly comes from a person who’s club had there best player/players years ago. I.e Geelong with GAS and Pies with Coventry. So imo it’s a coping attempt to always make said player relevant.

I’ve noticed with Richmond supporters we don’t do that. We all accept KB wouldn’t be as good as he was back then if he played today. We don’t pretend he’d grow half a foot add 10kg of muscle and still have the same skills to compete because that’s idiocy.

Players have to be completely dedicated to improving these days I think.
And it probably starts at 15 maybe younger.
I think recruiting is like the scientific method these days where it’s easier to disprove something than prove something so players do everything that’s in their control to not give a recruiter a reason to not advocate for them or to avoid having a line put through their name.
So they’re generally really high functioning individuals.

But they still have to express themselves in the game through their role and they need a super high level of competitiveness.

That hasn’t changed.

GAS probably Coventry and KB if you like, it was unusual if they where beaten, they all where able to express themselves and their game in their time and do things others couldn’t and probably all changed the way their role/position was played and played against.

That’s what you can’t quantify, they all rose above their peers because of something in their nature but it only happened because of the type and level of Aussie Rules at that moment and in that time.
I suppose you couldn’t rule it out that some would succeed in the modern game.
Champions are Champions because they’re better than everyone else and are able to do things they haven’t done before.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Players have to be completely dedicated to improving these days I think.
And it probably starts at 15 maybe younger.
I think recruiting is like the scientific method these days where it’s easier to disprove something than prove something so players do everything that’s in their control to not give a recruiter a reason to not advocate for them or to avoid having a line put through their name.
So they’re generally really high functioning individuals.

But they still have to express themselves in the game through their role and they need a super high level of competitiveness.

That hasn’t changed.

GAS probably Coventry and KB if you like, it was unusual if they where beaten, they all where able to express themselves and their game in their time and do things others couldn’t and probably all changed the way their role/position was played and played against.

That’s what you can’t quantify, they all rose above their peers because of something in their nature but it only happened because of the type and level of Aussie Rules at that moment and in that time.
I suppose you couldn’t rule it out that some would succeed in the modern game.
Champions are Champions because they’re better than everyone else and are able to do things they haven’t done before.

I don’t think GAS would’ve even been drafted. Not because he’s not a good player but because recruiters seeing a guy not training and drinking booze wouldn’t be acceptable. I don’t think he’d have the work ethic to become a professional footballer. He probably couldn’t have been stuffed either.

You could get away with it back then cause people still had part time jobs unlike today.

He’s also at an awkward height for what his strength is at 185cm. He is too short to be a KPF nowadays so they’d put him full time winger which is a graveyard for goals and you need a tank. Idk if he had a tank for that anyway. Probably end up a 300-400 goal career and wouldn’t even be in GOAT convos at all.

 

[BF Tiger]

Why is this thread still going? Surely our fans have better things to do than argue with fans who support the worst club in the league?

We use to just stay quiet and feel sorry for them.

Please do. I'm sure the RFC peanut gallery will follow suit.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Please do. I'm sure the RFC peanut gallery will follow suit.

I doubt it. Hard to imagine what could silence the RFC peanut gallery if a wooden spoon and a mass exodus of your good players doesn't.

Maybe a Geelong flag would do the job?

 

[Sttew]

I doubt it. Hard to imagine what could silence the RFC peanut gallery if a wooden spoon and a mass exodus of your good players doesn't.

And guaranteed wooden spoon in 2025

 

[BF Tiger]

I doubt it. Hard to imagine what could silence the RFC peanut gallery if a wooden spoon and a mass exodus of your good players doesn't.

Maybe a Geelong flag would do the job?

Try it.

Stupidity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

 

[PhatBoy]

Our pain coming now, your pain will come right before Tassie enters.

Aaaaand again. When the suns entered, you remember who was at the bottom of the ladder, don’t you?

Richmond and west coast. Remind me who won every flag from 2017-2020 along with another grand final appearance from the eagles thrown in?

So what was the summary effect of the Suns on the teams who were impacted most on their initial foray into the draft? half a decade of dominance between them 7 seasons later?

Doesn’t seem the sort of problem people are making it out to be if I’m being totally honest

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Aaaaand again. When the suns entered, you remember who was at the bottom of the ladder, don’t you?

Richmond and west coast. Remind me who won every flag from 2017-2020 along with another grand final appearance from the eagles thrown in?

So what was the summary effect of the Suns on the teams who were impacted most on their initial foray into the draft? half a decade of dominance between them 7 seasons later?

Doesn’t seem the sort of problem people are making it out to be if I’m being totally honest

You might want to take a look at the players Richmond and Eagles drafted in the 5-6 years prior to the compromised drafts.

Then take a gander at what Collingwood has drafted in the last 9 years. Quaynor and Daicos x 2 and McReery that have shown anything significant, are currently under 30, and still on the list. 4 players.

For Richmond the equivalent list ran to a stack of players but included Cotchin, Edwards, Riewoldt, Rance, Martin, Deledio.

For Eagles it was Natainui, Embley, Rosa, Lecras, Hurn, Priddis, MacKenzie, Schofield, Mastern, Selwood, Ebert, Shuey, Shepherd.

Then have a look at what draft picks Collingwood has in the coming draft.

Then comment from a foundation of relevant knowledge.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

west coast drafted 3 premiership players with their first three selections of that draft. Gaff, Lycett and Darling. Pretty sure after their wooden spoon effort of 2010, they managed to do just a reasonable job as it pertained to what happened down the track.

As I said, being at the bottom when a new team comes into the competition, means f**k all relative to the teams you’re actually going to be competing with.

So piss off, again.

You think Collingwood are set up to come out of a compromised draft period as Richmond and West Coast were leading into 2010-11?

 

[PhatBoy]

You think Collingwood are set up to come out of a compromised draft period as Richmond and West Coast were leading into 2010-11?

I’m not a recruiter. They aren’t going to try and do it the same way, are they, Meteoric Rise. They aren’t at the bottom, and are still trying to compete, aren’t they, Meteoric Rise. You are, like normal, arguing something I’m not even debating, for the sake of it, aren’t you, Meteoric Rise. Who gives a shit what Collingwood are doing.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Theyll have some older players, but I dont see the likes of Taranto or Hopper being exceptional leaders, particularly if theyre a bit upset about whats happened at the club since their arrival

Richmond will be scrounging around for some low draft pick cost mature players in the next couple of years while they build a big stock of young talent, and from there it should trend towards getting easier.

The club has obviously assessed the whole situation and deemed this is the best way forward. They are not idiots, there are loads of decision makers there who were integral to building our recent dynasty team.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I’m not a recruiter. They aren’t going to try and do it the same way, are they, Meteoric Rise. They aren’t at the bottom, and are still trying to compete, aren’t they, Meteoric Rise. You are, like normal, arguing something I’m not even debating, for the sake of it, aren’t you, Meteoric Rise. Who gives a shit what Collingwood are doing.

Didn't you enter the conversation on a point about how Collingwood were likely to fair from the coming compromised drafts?

And didn't you make the point West Coast and Richmond were down the bottom during the last compromised drafts and they came out of it fine, so by extension Collingwood should not have anything to worry about?

And didn't I then show you this was principally because Eagles and Tigers had drafted a great deal of talent in the 6+ years prior to those compromised drafts, and it is different for Collingwood, because they have not done that?

Isn't that how we got here?