Banter Geelong V Richmond - GO!

[Wosh]

In the interests of keeping your back and forth shite fights out of match threads so normal people can talk.

Keep it clean and above the shorts
Off topic rubbish clogging up match threads will be moved here, knock yourselves out.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

What's done is done, Richmond won the last great AFL dynasty, not Geelong.

BUT things change. The rules changed.

Richmond doesn't play breakneck, dirty clearance football anymore, and they just selected a bunch of big-bodied mids and mobile talls in the draft, classic Chris Scott body-type players.

We have Geelong-type players, and will attempt to play Geelong-style footy.

So, who really won?

I wouldn't call that Geelong style footy. Not really, anyway.

It was for a time of course, mainly the '13-21 era, but it's just not our identity before or since, and the vast majority of our fans hated it as a result.

Naturally, if we'd been winning flags or even competing better in finals, I'm sure we all would have been much more accepting of a game-style that wasn't easy on the eye...but that just wasn't the case during that period.

With that being said, I don't blame the staff for their choices during that period. The personnel dictated the game-plan, and looking back, we probably were a bit spoiled and ungrateful coming off '07-11.

With a lack of speed, no viable second key forward, and an oversupply of seasoned veteran bodies, it made sense to move in that direction despite the eye-sore it became at times.

Despite its flaws, it was a viable way of winning games regularly. Not necessarily premierships, but clubs (more so board members) don't always look that way.

If you're winning regularly, building membership/staying relevant, and continuing to play in the prime time slots, that's enough for them to not force the issue and feel that something needs to change.

Those benefactors are getting their money either way, and we're seeing that with Port at the moment, and some would argue Sydney too. Near enough is good enough, and everyone keeps their jobs.

I know it's a meme in here, but it genuinely took Hocking coming back to swing the axe a bit, and let everyone know that what we were doing wasn't working.

It changed in 2022 as a result, and if people want to argue we implement a bit of 'Richmond' into our game-plan then that's fine.

I'd argue we just reverted back to the attacking, fast paced football club we'd always been before an unusual period in our history, but hey, it's all a matter of opinion.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

I wouldn't call that Geelong style footy. Not really, anyway.

It was for a time of course, mainly the '13-21 era, but it's just not our identity before or since, and the vast majority of our fans hated it as a result.

Naturally, if we'd been winning flags or even competing better in finals, I'm sure we all would have been much more accepting of a game-style that wasn't easy on the eye...but that just wasn't the case during that period.

With that being said, I don't blame the staff for their choices during that period. The personnel dictated the game-plan, and looking back, we probably were a bit spoiled and ungrateful coming off '07-11.

With a lack of speed, no viable second key forward, and an oversupply of seasoned veteran bodies, it made sense to move in that direction despite the eye-sore it became at times.

Despite its flaws, it was a viable way of winning games regularly. Not necessarily premierships, but clubs (more so board members) don't always look that way.

If you're winning regularly, building membership/staying relevant, and continuing to play in the prime time slots, that's enough for them to not force the issue and feel that something needs to change.

Those benefactors are getting their money either way, and we're seeing that with Port at the moment, and some would argue Sydney too. Near enough is good enough, and everyone keeps their jobs.

I know it's a meme in here, but it genuinely took Hocking coming back to swing the axe a bit, and let everyone know that what we were doing wasn't working.

It changed in 2022 as a result, and if people want to argue we implement a bit of 'Richmond' into our game-plan then that's fine.

I'd argue we just reverted back to the attacking, fast paced football club we'd always been before an unusual period in our history, but hey, it's all a matter of opinion.

you can't argue against Geelong being the preferred destination for the best players, and as you say, the best place for you to have a long career on the off-field side. Nobody loses sleep, nobody gets fired, if you keep finishing in the top 4.

 

[blaisee]

Feels like the cats flags should all have an asterix

The dank ones, and cotton on, and the Nguyen, and Morris ones

Disgraceful rampant cheating from a club who exits through pork barreling

Their stadium is a $100m gov rort, the captain was getting paid 15% on a 100K loan from a sponsor, the coach getting paid a fortune for working for a sponsor, friendly land deals, I think we just figured out the secret to the cats success

Pity they still cannot beat Richmond in a final

Not sure why anyone would be surprised

 

[Mr Meow]

you can't argue against Geelong being the preferred destination for the best players, and as you say, the best place for you to have a long career on the off-field side. Nobody loses sleep, nobody gets fired, if you keep finishing in the top 4.

Good teams finish top 4/make prelims. Great teams win premierships. It's as simple as that. Very occasionally an average team will win a flag or a great team misses out (because there's a really spectacular, mind blowingly elite side in the way). The Richmond/Geelong rivalry was a case of one great team and one good team. Not a really spectacular side beating a great team. That's what supporters seem to differ on.

 

[Coach_Required]

We were THIS close to getting away with it too before you caught on Mr Phillip Poo. Just give it to me straight - which cups are we handing back?

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updated

 

[STPer18]

updated

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Makes sense, no one can be THAT good fairly.

 

[Coach_Required]

Makes sense, no one can be THAT good fairly.

Geelong is the new Carlton, just smarter.

 

[Coach_Required]

Gee there are a lot of people finding their emotional support in the form of an unsigned loan contract that amounts to less than a match payment.

Before you commit your sanity to this one maybe hedge your bets in case there's actually nothing to see here.

Just the tip of the iceberg down at cheatsville.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Just the tip of the iceberg down at cheatsville.

Just the tip is what Hocking says to the AFL when writing their rules for them

 

[All Aust]

For now, the side with the most recent premiership and total premierships in the national era.

If Richmond rise again without too much further embarrassment, they can make a claim at being a great club of the modern era. If there's a lot of obscurity then of course the gap grows.

Bias your choice of an era? The era is the time Richmond and Geelong have competed against one another. In this fred, our banter doesn't give a fart let alone something more solid for other teams.

 

[Coach_Required]

LoL - what the cats have done may be questionable, but not illegal - they're not that stupid. Just a lot of teary-eyed comments from opposition supporters wishing their club had the nous to be continuously successful, instead of propping up the bottom of the ladder.

No teary eyed fans here but a lot of this going on by cat fans

 

[Mr Meow]

Bias your choice of an era? The era is the time Richmond and Geelong have competed against one another. In this fred, our banter doesn't give a fart let alone something more solid for other teams.

A lot changed as the competition became national though, which has covered the majority of my lifetime (respect to you if more of your life was 80s or before, that's a solid innings). Head to head finals record is great but for current bragging rights I'm taking total number of AFL premierships, most recent AFL premiership, and less time being a joke of the AFL. I think the Cats are already on a 4 year streak of being better than Richmond, so it's up to the Tigers to climb the ladder and open the AFL debate again.

 

[Mr Meow]

No teary eyed fans here but a lot of this going on by cat fans

Except we're the ones joking around and you're the one screeching about corruption and asterisked flags.

Richmond supporters don't tend to take the time down at the bottom of the ladder very well.

 

[Freddy Swift]

A lot changed as the competition became national though, which has covered the majority of my lifetime (respect to you if more of your life was 80s or before, that's a solid innings). Head to head finals record is great but for current bragging rights I'm taking total number of AFL premierships, most recent AFL premiership, and less time being a joke of the AFL. I think the Cats are already on a 4 year streak of being better than Richmond, so it's up to the Tigers to climb the ladder and open the AFL debate again.

How big of you to only want to count the period from the 2000's onwards. Clearly you are a fairly young person because you obviously have no idea about your side prior to to 2007. Well I remember it all quite well. Geelong were a "joke" longer than Richmond were. 44 years it was and yes you can say you made the odd grand final in that time, but you always managed to find a way to lose them. My husband (who incidentally is a Geelong supporter) would sit there in despair each time.

So you can brag all you like Mr Meow, you have one more flag in the AFL era than Richmond (big deal). If it makes you feel good about yourself, be my guest.

 

[Mr Meow]

How big of you to only want to count the period from the 2000's onwards. Clearly you are a fairly young person because you obviously have no idea about your side prior to to 2007. Well I remember it all quite well. Geelong were a "joke" longer than Richmond were. 44 years it was and yes you can say you made the odd grand final in that time, but you always managed to find a way to lose them. My husband (who incidentally is a Geelong supporter) would sit there in despair each time.

So you can brag all you like Mr Meow, you have one more flag in the AFL era than Richmond (big deal). If it makes you feel good about yourself, be my guest.

That's kind of crazy that you thought the competition only went national in the 2000's, Freddy.

I'm delighted for everything you remember and cherish as a Tigers supporter. This deeply insecure post is I'm sure merely a blip in what is otherwise a contended soul. As I've always said, I'm actively cheering Richmond on to climb out of their renewed period of obscurity so that there's a chance of the rivalry being ignited. The Cats have already won a premiership since that began, so we'll see how things develop from here.

 

[theprospector]

Pies fan jumping in here. As an outsider I wanted to say that Richmond owned Geelong in finals. It doesn’t matter if it stopped Geelong winning a flag or not. Let’s just enjoy the fact Richmond thrashed Geelong every final

 

[STPer18]

Pies fan jumping in here. As an outsider I wanted to say that Richmond owned Geelong in finals. It doesn’t matter if it stopped Geelong winning a flag or not. Let’s just enjoy the fact Richmond thrashed Geelong every final

As a Pies fan I get seeing enjoyment in Geelong losing finals. After all we know what tends to happen when our two clubs meet come that time of year.

 

[Mr Meow]

Pies fan jumping in here. As an outsider I wanted to say that Richmond owned Geelong in finals. It doesn’t matter if it stopped Geelong winning a flag or not. Let’s just enjoy the fact Richmond thrashed Geelong every final

If I was a Richmond supporter I'd say only Geelong stopped Collingwood having a 4 flag dynasty 2007-2011 and going b2b 2022-2023. But it doesn't really work like that. Only the 2011 side was premiership-worthy, of the ones that missed out.

 

[Freddy Swift]

That's kind of crazy that you thought the competition only went national in the 2000's, Freddy.

I'm delighted for everything you remember and cherish as a Tigers supporter. This deeply insecure post is I'm sure merely a blip in what is otherwise a contended soul. As I've always said, I'm actively cheering Richmond on to climb out of their renewed period of obscurity so that there's a chance of the rivalry being ignited. The Cats have already won a premiership since that began, so we'll see how things develop from here.

I'm well aware of when the competition went national Mr Meow. In the 80's, with the name change to the AFL in 1990 probably long before you were born. It's just that most of the Geelong fans on here seem to think football only started in the 2000's. (Except for the ones who want to count your flags from the horse and buggy VFA days.)

That premiership you've "already won" was against the Swans, it seems they fall to bits in GF's so perhaps not the great feat you think it was.

I find it very hard to believe you would ever cheer Richmond for anything. Also, what's a contended soul? I'm guessing you mean contented? If so, yes I have been a contented Tiger fan in my lifetime. Plenty of lean years and more success than many other sides.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm well aware of when the competition went national Mr Meow. In the 80's, with the name change to the AFL in 1990 probably long before you were born. It's just that most of the Geelong fans on here seem to think football only started in the 2000's. (Except for the ones who want to count your flags from the horse and buggy VFA days.)

That premiership you've "already won" was against the Swans, it seems they fall to bits in GF's so perhaps not the great feat you think it was.

I find it very hard to believe you would ever cheer Richmond for anything. Also, what's a contended soul? I'm guessing you mean contented? If so, yes I have been a contented Tiger fan in my lifetime. Plenty of lean years and more success than many other sides.

Then why are you saying I was framing to the 2000s? The league being renamed the AFL in 1990 is a suitable starting point for true nationalisation of the comp, but '87 with West Coast's arrival is fine too. You're the one that seems to be tying my interpretation of the AFL era to the 2000s simply because that's when Geelong won flags.

I can tell you first hand that seasons which end in heartbreak like the first half of the 90s are a hell of a lot more enjoyable than the ones where the side you follow are utter dross. The whole "you're either first or last" doesn't match up with how angry and bitter most Richmond supporters still are - even after 3 recent flags. Because there's been so much s**t over the past 40 odd years.

The "already won" premiership involved beating the 2023 and 2024 premiers, along with a side that's made 2 of the last 3 grand finals. If you look at the credentials of sides like Adelaide, Port, GWS and Brisbane 2017-2020 it matches up favourably. That's why Richmond supporters cling onto Geelong 2017-2020 being an outstanding team that was stronger than the 2022 version - as the other teams were nobodies.

For a contented soul you sure do bitch and whine a lot. I'd say that's what happens when the side you follow has only been good and had a shot at winning a flag 6 of the past 35 years. There's certainly been more years than that where Richmond have been terrible and that is why I wish them a speedy recovery. Don't confuse rubbishing supporters opinions with disliking the club. I'm not pathetic enough to death ride a bunch of promising youngsters because a side that wore the same colours won finals against the Cats. Kudos to you if your venom runs that deep.

 

[Noidnadroj]

For now, the side with the most recent premiership and total premierships in the national era.

If Richmond rise again without too much further embarrassment, they can make a claim at being a great club of the modern era. If there's a lot of obscurity then of course the gap grows.

13 in 117 seasons v 10 in 128 seasons. Now that’s a gap.

A dynasty in the era of an enforced salary cap, a soft cap, a proper bidding system on father sons and equality in facilities and something at least resembling equalisation …. pretty remarkable.

Since that we’ve seen Demons smash a flag and then fritter away to nothing. Cats win a flag then miss finals. Pies win a flag then miss finals….

It’s almost like it’s hard to sustain an extended run at the top in the modern era of equalisation. Only Richmond has done it thus far.

I wonder who’ll be next.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Meteoric Rise]

A lot changed as the competition became national though, which has covered the majority of my lifetime (respect to you if more of your life was 80s or before, that's a solid innings). Head to head finals record is great but for current bragging rights I'm taking total number of AFL premierships, most recent AFL premiership, and less time being a joke of the AFL. I think the Cats are already on a 4 year streak of being better than Richmond, so it's up to the Tigers to climb the ladder and open the AFL debate again.

A team who has won 13 flags and has the following record v the biggest Vic clubs in finals is never going to be a joke of the AFL:

Richmond Tigers all time finals v biggest 5 Vic clubs:

V Blues 16w 6l
v Cats 8w 2l
v Essendon 5w 4l
v Collingwood 9w 8l
v Hawthorn 1w 0l

Overall against all other members of the big 6 in Vic:

39w 20l

So there isn't really anyone who could legitimately laugh at Richmond. We hold sway over every other big club in the games that matter most - finals - and we totally dwarf every other club. It would be like Lloyd Christmas attempting to laugh at Superman.

Chokelong is ever going to be able to laugh at Biggamemond in your lifetime or mine.

 

[Noidnadroj]

A lot changed as the competition became national though, which has covered the majority of my lifetime (respect to you if more of your life was 80s or before, that's a solid innings). Head to head finals record is great but for current bragging rights I'm taking total number of AFL premierships, most recent AFL premiership, and less time being a joke of the AFL. I think the Cats are already on a 4 year streak of being better than Richmond, so it's up to the Tigers to climb the ladder and open the AFL debate again.

I think the era of genuine equalisation is more appropriate. Otherwise you’re comparing Geelong who had great facilities, multiple superstar father sons attained for basically zip, ample resources to spend on off field coaching and recruiting etc…. with multiple teams lacking one or more of those benefits.

Not sure why flags won when many teams had massive advantages before a ball was even bounced would be rated higher than those won on a much more level playing field?

Regardless….

Era of equalisation : 3 v 1

National competition: 3 v 4

Watch a Premiership on TV: 8 v 5

Total: 13 v 10 (from 11 less seasons)

It’s no wonder you’re hanging on to the National competition timeline … oh dear.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Mr Meow]

I think the era of genuine equalisation is more appropriate. Otherwise you’re comparing Geelong who had great facilities, multiple superstar father sons attained for basically zip, ample resources to spend on off field coaching and recruiting etc…. with multiple teams lacking one or more of those benefits.

Not sure why flags won when many teams had massive advantages before a ball was even bounced would be rated higher than those won on a much more level playing field?

Regardless….

Era of equalisation : 3 v 1

National competition: 3 v 4

Watch a Premiership on TV: 8 v 5

Total: 13 v 10 (from 11 less seasons)

It’s no wonder you’re hanging on to the National competition timeline … oh dear.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Cool story - it adds nothing to dispel any points I've made over the past couple of days - you know, the ones you have been desperately trying and failing to dispute.

 

[Mr Meow]

A team who has won 13 flags and has the following record v the biggest Vic clubs in finals is never going to be a joke of the AFL:

Richmond Tigers all time finals v biggest 5 Vic clubs:

V Blues 16w 6l
v Cats 8w 2l
v Essendon 5w 4l
v Collingwood 9w 8l
v Hawthorn 1w 0l

Overall against all other members of the big 6 in Vic:

39w 20l

So there isn't really anyone who could legitimately laugh at Richmond. We hold sway over every other big club in the games that matter most - finals - and we totally dwarf every other club. It would be like Lloyd Christmas attempting to laugh at Superman.

Chokelong is ever going to be able to laugh at Biggamemond in your lifetime or mine.

It became the AFL in 1990, hence why I said joke of the AFL. Before nationalisation, Richmond were a terrific club - that is a very true statement. For the modern era they did well to capitalise with 3 flags in the one brief period they contended for them, and have otherwise been terrible. Which is fine! There's no need to protest so much.