Get it all out of your system Hawks.

[Binxy]

At this stage, all I can hope for is that we don't waste what is now an opportunity to entirely reshape the club. If we are to lose Captain, Coach, CEO, President, Board, 16 Players etc.. I'm glad it's happening all in the one year rather than stagger it out over 4- 5 years.

Don't bother hoping for Barker/Holland to have good pre seasons - get rid of them....all the usual suspects Greene/Clarke/McCabe etc etc... get rid of them....yes we'll finish bottom for a few years but guess what? WE WILL ANYWAY!! Better to start completely from scratch and put an end to the "pretty boy/soft" culture that's taken over the club.

Ask the next prospective coach "What are your plans for Nathan Thompson?"
If he answers "To turn him into a bone breaking monster" ...sign him up.

This could turn out to be a golden opportunity for Hawthorn and, if handled correctly, we'll be talking about this moment like we talk about the attempted merge in '96.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

At this stage, all I can hope for is that we don't waste what is now an opportunity to entirely reshape the club. If we are to lose Captain, Coach, CEO, President, Board, 16 Players etc.. I'm glad it's happening all in the one year rather than stagger it out over 4- 5 years.

Don't bother hoping for Barker/Holland to have good pre seasons - get rid of them....all the usual suspects Greene/Clarke/McCabe etc etc... get rid of them....yes we'll finish bottom for a few years but guess what? WE WILL ANYWAY!! Better to start completely from scratch and put an end to the "pretty boy/soft" culture that's taken over the club.

Ask the next prospective coach "What are your plans for Nathan Thompson?"
If he answers "To turn him into a bone breaking monster" ...sign him up.

This could turn out to be a golden opportunity for Hawthorn and, if handled correctly, we'll be talking about this moment like we talk about the attempted merge in '96.

I agree. Whether by chance or design, we're making wholesale changes to a club that's in disarray. The worst thing we could do is bury our heads in the sand and pretend everything is OK when it isn't.

 

[medusala]

Why hasnt Dunstall started sacking people yet? Time for Hook and the fitness/medical people to go. What about the delistings? Richmond are showing us the way once again.

 

[mulhollanddrive]

They are saying that its because we havent appointed a new coach to help make those decisions. If the sub committee would make the appointment then changes can be made. As Dermott said all year ' you can't make changes half way through a season', well time to get started.

 

[LoneStar]

Why hasnt Dunstall started sacking people yet? Time for Hook and the fitness/medical people to go. What about the delistings? Richmond are showing us the way once again.

Great idea brainiac! Why not have the interim CEO start hacking away at the staff and delisting players before a new coach is hired and before a permanent CEO is in place. Why should the new coach expect to have any input on the composition of the list? Why should a new CEO expect to help decide the direction the club takes in areas like the medical/fitness staff or a General Manager of Football Operations? Let's hurry up and do something now because doing anything is better than making certain we are doing the right things!

How could anyone who has watched the manner in which Richmond has conducted its operations for the last 30 years even suggest that "Richmond are showing us the way once again"? Which way would that be? The way to the bottom of the ladder? We've gotten extremely close without following the Tigers' lead! If we make logical decisions and avoid knee-jerk reaction we may follow the lead of a more successful club...like one of the forteen that didn't finish below us on the ladder!

 

[medusala]

Great idea brainiac! Why not have the interim CEO start hacking away at the staff and delisting players before a new coach is hired and before a permanent CEO is in place. Why should the new coach expect to have any input on the composition of the list? Why should a new CEO expect to help decide the direction the club takes in areas like the medical/fitness staff or a General Manager of Football Operations? Let's hurry up and do something now because doing anything is better than making certain we are doing the right things!

How could anyone who has watched the manner in which Richmond has conducted its operations for the last 30 years even suggest that "Richmond are showing us the way once again"? Which way would that be? The way to the bottom of the ladder? We've gotten extremely close without following the Tigers' lead! If we make logical decisions and avoid knee-jerk reaction we may follow the lead of a more successful club...like one of the forteen that didn't finish below us on the ladder!

dufus, the coach doesnt generally appoint the fitness and medical staff nor the football manager (unless you are Pagan ). The new CEO's role will have nothing to do with making decisions in these areas ie football related. Thus the current CEO and board will be making them, so there is no need to wait. Might I ask who is the person that has allegedly decided to give Lonie and Ries 2 year contracts then?

 

[LoneStar]

dufus, the coach doesnt generally appoint the fitness and medical staff nor the football manager (unless you are Pagan ). The new CEO's role will have nothing to do with making decisions in these areas ie football related. Thus the current CEO and board will be making them, so there is no need to wait. Might I ask who is the person that has allegedly decided to give Lonie and Ries 2 year contracts then?

Dufus is my actual surname...my friends and family immigrated from Oafland on rafts constructed of corrugated oatmeal (so we wouldn't run out of food on our long journey to freedom!) I am uncertain how or why (I was only 17 and still in primary school, so most memories of that trip are sketchy), but many loved ones perished in the cruel ocean trying to escape oppression!

It's Q & A Time Medusala!!!
Question 1 (yours)-Might I ask who is the person that has allegedly decided to give Lonie and Ries 2 year contracts then?Answer (mine)-I believe that was John Hook-HFC General Manager of Football Operations
Question 2 (mine)-Why should the new coach expect to have any input on the composition of the list?Answer (yours)-dufus, the coach doesnt generally appoint the fitness and medical staff nor the football manager (unless you are Pagan) (does this answer make sense to anyone?)
Question 3 (mine)-Why should a new CEO expect to help decide the direction the club takes in areas like the medical/fitness staff or a General Manager of Football Operations?Answer (yours)-The new CEO's role will have nothing to do with making decisions in these areas ie football related. Thus the current CEO and board will be making them, so there is no need to wait. (you specifically wanted--see your post--the interim CEO to start sacking these people immediately, yet the new CEO will not have any input in these areas.)
Question 4 (mine)-How could anyone...suggest that "Richmond are showing us the way once again"?Answer (yours)-no answer/don't know
Question 5 (mine)-Which way would that be?Answer (yours)-no answer/don't know

Richmond has done nothing but sign an expensive coach to a long term contract, fire some staff members, and announce some players (flattering description of the lot IMO) will be gone. And the reponse here is that HFC is falling behind because the Tigers are setting a shining example. Isn't this the same black-and-gold clad rabble that lost by more than 10 goals on their home ground to the Swans about a week ago? They scored 16 points after quarter time and they are showing us the way once again. Sounds like some of our panic-stricken posters are suffering from Cranial Rectal Adhesion!

Medusala...be careful who you are calling a dufus. While it is my ancestoral title, you are making a good case that you deserve it as well!

 

[medusala]

It's Q & A Time Medusala!!!
Question 1 (yours)-Might I ask who is the person that has allegedly decided to give Lonie and Ries 2 year contracts then?Answer (mine)-I believe that was John Hook-HFC General Manager of Football Operations
Question 2 (mine)-Why should the new coach expect to have any input on the composition of the list?Answer (yours)-dufus, the coach doesnt generally appoint the fitness and medical staff nor the football manager (unless you are Pagan) (does this answer make sense to anyone?)
Question 3 (mine)-Why should a new CEO expect to help decide the direction the club takes in areas like the medical/fitness staff or a General Manager of Football Operations?Answer (yours)-The new CEO's role will have nothing to do with making decisions in these areas ie football related. Thus the current CEO and board will be making them, so there is no need to wait. (you specifically wanted--see your post--the interim CEO to start sacking these people immediately, yet the new CEO will not have any input in these areas.)
Question 4 (mine)-How could anyone...suggest that "Richmond are showing us the way once again"?Answer (yours)-no answer/don't know
Question 5 (mine)-Which way would that be?Answer (yours)-no answer/don't know

Richmond has done nothing but sign an expensive coach to a long term contract, fire some staff members, and announce some players (flattering description of the lot IMO) will be gone. And the reponse here is that HFC is falling behind because the Tigers are setting a shining example. Isn't this the same black-and-gold clad rabble that lost by more than 10 goals on their home ground to the Swans about a week ago? They scored 16 points after quarter time and they are showing us the way once again. Sounds like some of our panic-stricken posters are suffering from Cranial Rectal Adhesion!

Medusala...be careful who you are calling a dufus. While it is my ancestoral title, you are making a good case that you deserve it as well!

I'll explain it to you as you seem to be struggling

1) you state there should be no delistings until the new coach arrives, then surely there shouldnt be any resignings of players either
2) the coach doesnt appoint the football manager as the board like to have an independent view on the performance of the coach (Essendon have it in their club constitution that a director sits in the box on match day). Even Grant Thomas had to succumb to having a football manager appointed by the president.
3) Dunstall is in a different position to that of a normal ceo because of his football rather than business background. Also its quite normal for an administration to make certain decisions BEFORE a new coach arrives. ie three club legends were sacked before Blight turned up at Adelaide, Greg Miller did the sackings at Richmond etc. Given the question mark over Hook it would not be at all unusual for Dunstall to sack those I referred to. Remember it was Dermott as a director who last year had to sack Kel Moore.
4) I agree that Richmond gave Wallace far too much. One point in their favour is that a) their supporters are very happy and I would be very surprised if they dont have a membership surge next year and b) they have removed themselves from the papers unless us with another article today by Patrick Smith following one by Mike Sheehan calling us a rabble. Unfortunately the longer this goes on membership and sponsorship may well be affected detrimentally, something the club cant afford. Perception does count in matters such as these.

Lonestar, whilst you may disagree I think you'll find the above fairly logical.

 

[tige19]

At this stage, all I can hope for is that we don't waste what is now an opportunity to entirely reshape the club. If we are to lose Captain, Coach, CEO, President, Board, 16 Players etc.. I'm glad it's happening all in the one year rather than stagger it out over 4- 5 years.

Don't bother hoping for Barker/Holland to have good pre seasons - get rid of them....all the usual suspects Greene/Clarke/McCabe etc etc... get rid of them....yes we'll finish bottom for a few years but guess what? WE WILL ANYWAY!! Better to start completely from scratch and put an end to the "pretty boy/soft" culture that's taken over the club.

Ask the next prospective coach "What are your plans for Nathan Thompson?"
If he answers "To turn him into a bone breaking monster" ...sign him up.

This could turn out to be a golden opportunity for Hawthorn and, if handled correctly, we'll be talking about this moment like we talk about the attempted merge in '96.

Meanwhile in these next 4 odd years we will be on the bottom our memebership drops to 20k, we have supporters rebelling against the club, the board and coaches are under constant scruitany, major sponsors no longer support the club and home attendance is similiur to the Bulldogs as well as the Waverly Money hand out we get each year has stopped.

The club is reaching extiction, If you think this year was bad and the club struggled to handle the different circumstances that the football world threw at it imagine 4 years of it.

Your view is ok in retrospect but in reality isnt an option, in the current day football world a professional football club can only stay bottom for a ceratin period before the wallas will start to cave in, there have been many examples over the year eg Carlton,Doggies,Fitzroy,Richmond and now Hawthorn in the modern era.

Mate if you are happy with finishing bottom or there abouts for the next 4 years then maybe you should support Richmond or the Buldogs but i for 1 wont be accepting a bottom place finish next year and deffiently not in 2006, i would think the club can rebound and have a descent year next year with the aim of finals in 2006.

cheers

 

[Binxy]

Meanwhile in these next 4 odd years, we have supporters rebelling against the club, the board and coaches are under constant scruitany, major sponsors no longer support the club and home attendance is similiur to the Bulldogs

As opposed to now?
If we succesfully show there is a long term purpose (as Collingwood, Carlton, St. Kilda and Sydney have all done in recent times) supporters and sponsors will see the benefits of staying on board.

The club is reaching extiction, If you think this year was bad and the club struggled to handle the different circumstances that the football world threw at it imagine 4 years of it.

My point exactly. Imagine 4 years of it. Now is the time to make sure this doesn't happen to our club for a very long time. Tough decisions need to be made NOW. We can make sure we are never the soft/pretty boys EVER AGAIN.

Your view is ok in retrospect but in reality isnt an option

OK what is an option? Holland and Barker? McCabe and Greene?
Poor skills and even worse decision making?

Mate if you are happy with finishing bottom or there abouts for the next 4 years then maybe you should support Richmond or the Buldogs but i for 1 wont be accepting a bottom place finish next year and deffiently not in 2006, i would think the club can rebound and have a descent year next year with the aim of finals in 2006.

Now now, I never said I was happy. Just that if it has to happen I want it to mean something. Nobody thought we'd have to "accept" a bottom position this year and if we keep going the way we have, we may have to "accept" it next year. We all agree, changes need to be made. Let's make them all at once. The coach, the captain, the culture.

P.S. Should we be appointing a coach before Don Scott does his EGM thing?

 

[W's Machines]

Why hasnt Dunstall started sacking people yet? Time for Hook and the fitness/medical people to go. What about the delistings? Richmond are showing us the way once again.

Dunstall is not sacking anyone because Hawthorn is not run as a cut-throat business, but as one big happy family! Dunstall is finding it to hard to sack his friends! Hawthorn should take Essendon as an example. Sheedy, Harvey and Shaw are not friends but colleges. This is what needs to be done at Hawthorn. No more giving people jobs for being a mate, but giving them jobs for being good!

 

[ViperV10]

Dufus is my actual surname...my friends and family immigrated from Oafland on rafts constructed of corrugated oatmeal (so we wouldn't run out of food on our long journey to freedom!) I am uncertain how or why (I was only 17 and still in primary school, so most memories of that trip are sketchy), but many loved ones perished in the cruel ocean trying to escape oppression!

Classic!

 

[LoneStar]

Medusala....My main points were stated thru these cynical questions:

Why not have the interim CEO start hacking away at the staff and delisting players before a new coach is hired and before a permanent CEO is in place. Why should the new coach expect to have any input on the composition of the list? Why should a new CEO expect to help decide the direction the club takes in areas like the medical/fitness staff or a General Manager of Football Operations?

Let me try to respond to your points in a fairly logical manner:
1) Yes I feel there should be no delistings before new coach arrives. Do not re-sign any marginal players before new coach arrives. Hodge was an exception. Any candidate not wanting to re-sign Hodge is unqualified to be coach. I do feel that new coach deserves input in any delistings and re-signings. Maybe not final say, but input surely.
2) Never suggested coach deserved input in naming General Manager of Football Operations. I did suggest new CEO deserved that input. I still think he does!
Someone has responsibility for the the medical/fitness staff appointments. I thought the CEO warranted input in this area as well, but maybe I am wrong.
3) I am talking about input in all these areas and not the final decision. Why is there a hurry to move in these areas when the coaching vacancy needs to be resolved 1st and ASAP? Are we better off delisting player XYZ before hiring a new coach? Would firing Fitness staff make us look less a rabble? I personally don't think so.
4) You have some valid points on this one. If it drags on too long it could harm sponsorship/membership. But if the timing is right, say after Finals are over and no longer dominate the media, it might work to Hawks' advantage.
If the resolution of the coaching/CEO/captain openings are resolved before the draft, Hawks create excitement with trades and draft choices, and the mood changes from gloom to hope...your concerns will hopefully be moot.
I agree with you, "perception does count in matters such as these." I believe the "apparent rabble" perceptions can still be overcome and the negative morale replaced with optimism for the future.
I think your original comments suggest panic when none is warranted. I feel it's a Richmond induced panic! It's still the just first weekend in September.