Rumour GFC 2023 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt1

[cats_09]

As we are now getting into the season and we are starting to get a bit more serious with discussion, seems a suitable time to post the following as it's repeatedly shown itself to be a value reference tool in trade & draft discussion

And as per normal, thanks to Lore for putting this together - always a fantastic reference tool



And yes this post is now stickied - makes it easy to keep track of (can easily reverse this though if needed)

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

The problem with Neale I think is he's one of those in-betweeners. Not good enough to be a star KPF and not good enough to be a #1 ruckman.

I think Rory Lobb

7

Rory Lobb

Age

31

Ht

207cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.9

4star

D

11.3

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.6

3star

is his ceiling unfortunately.

 

[dazbroncos]

I wasn't as forgiving as you.

I saw that lol
we both reacted the same way at the same time.. it was really quite funny... i was laughing as it happened in real time.

GO Catters

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The problem with Neale I think is he's one of those in-betweeners. Not good enough to be a star KPF and not good enough to be a #1 ruckman.

I think Rory Lobb is his ceiling unfortunately.

Rory Lobb level is still a good stopgap. I think he can do better than that personally

 

[Nest of Cats]

If Sav wants to go to Port, I hope the club asks for Xavier Duursma

28

Xavier Duursma

Age

24

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.5

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

8.5

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

CL

1.6

4star

D

13.0

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

0.5

3star

D

16.8

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

8.4

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

1.6

4star

in a straight swap. 23yo goalkicking wingman. Had some injuries, but can play..

 

[CatToTheFuture]

If Sav wants to go to Port, I hope the club asks for Xavier Duursma in a straight swap. 23yo goalkicking wingman. Had some injuries, but can play..

Not the worst idea but don't think he's going anywhere

 

[bulletproof]

The problem with Neale I think is he's one of those in-betweeners. Not good enough to be a star KPF and not good enough to be a #1 ruckman.

I think Rory Lobb is his ceiling unfortunately.

Yep, I don’t love these type of players generally.

Would always avoid them early in a draft.

However, they do have some value. They help with team balance, particularly if they can cover the ground like Neale can.

 

[Warhorse]

The problem with Neale I think is he's one of those in-betweeners. Not good enough to be a star KPF and not good enough to be a #1 ruckman.

I think Rory Lobb is his ceiling unfortunately.

I don't think he even gets to a Lobb level. He is good on the lead but seems to be very little of anything else to his game

 

[Turbocat]

The problem with Neale I think is he's one of those in-betweeners. Not good enough to be a star KPF and not good enough to be a #1 ruckman.

I think Rory Lobb is his ceiling unfortunately.

Maybe due to our lack of them but we do seem to have an emotional link to our talls Conway and Neale seem to develop attention well beyond what they have delivered.

On one hand I can sort of see what you are saying and would be happy if you are correct. Drafted 2013 ..has now played 150 games for p29. Not a ruck, not happy to be the number 1 guy forward yet very handy at times over his journey. Neale p33 .. could he play 150 games by 2030?

With Neale he shows talent above the VFL but also at times does stuff that would probably not be up to afl. Does he get pushed as side too easily? Does he rely too much on his spring and not enough on creating space thru work? How fit is he following his injury? Is he naturally gritty. Watching that kid Walter that GC will get he resonated that. Has Mooney elements where he is happy to be the aggressor.

I dread to be too critical about VFL form. Being in that VFL side as a forward would be ordinary at times. I could not believe I heard the coach talking the to playing skinny. Watching the VFL, Id want them to use the full width, kick to guys almost hanging over the boundary ..and then go. You've got move it, move it, move it. Thats the way AFL is now. Instead it was like he wants a bogged down the line messy low chance of getting burnt on the rebound. Anyway ..he knows more than me. Just didn't think we tried to play the VFL like we play the AFL ... and I suspect if Hawkins was in the VFL side.. then the coach would be telling them to bust a gut to get it down to him quick.

If thats VFL then I believe Shannon is close to needing to play afl with betters around him. He needs to learn to cope with the next level up..and we need to see him with no excuses. Like with OHenry , id not expect him to be his best but id want contribution. Glimpses. The injury hurt him at the start of the year. I hate guys who get injured at the wrong time. Its an unfair assessment but some guys have a knack for knackering themselves . Now we are in the group of games where we probably cant see him. It will have to be 2024. 2024 and 2025 see him now move into "its time" to be playing afl or you will be passed over. If we compared him to Tom Dek... 4 years on the list ..he started to play a significant number of games. Of course maybe we are hopping for a Zac Guthrie. Rookie drafted 2016. Season 5 he cracked into our side and has not looked back. It would mean 2025 is his year.


So... I do wonder. What does bringing in Tom Dek do to Neales chances of playing.


The potential difference I see between him and Lobb is his mobility and running that he potential could supply. He has shown speed and stamina on the track. Can he make that work for him at an AFL level. Can he , just like Miers, found a way to make his difference work for him. I dont see him as a stand under the ball and bomb forward. He is more a player with elements that hint at Cameron and Blitz and Stanley.


Anyway he is signed at Geelong for two years. I guess we see if you are correct. If he is good enough he will get selected.

 

[Turbocat]

Not the worst idea but don't think he's going anywhere

Good blood lines. His brother is handy and there is a third one coming.

 

[Turbocat]

He is a useful piece, at his size and and athleticism, he could be a Mr fixit, moved around as our other pieces develop to take their spots or as injuries require.

In the next few years we're going to have juggle the replacement of Stanley, Hawkins, Blicavs and the at the tail end Cameron. That doesn't take into account that our back up ruckman will be out the door mostly likely at the end of this season.

Other than Neale who looks like he could at least take a role, Conway and Foster are completely unproven and years away getting a game let alone holding down some of the most taxing roles at AFL level.

Agree with this.

Id say Conway looks very promising but he need a season of playing every week and still looks unseasoned. Foster is a lot longer shot. We are hollow in the mid 20's age group. If not Tdek we need to add someone.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Maybe due to our lack of them but we do seem to have an emotional link to our talls Conway and Neale seem to develop attention well beyond what they have delivered.

On one hand I can sort of see what you are saying and would be happy if you are correct. Drafted 2013 ..has now played 150 games for p29. Not a ruck, not happy to be the number 1 guy forward yet very handy at times over his journey. Neale p33 .. could he play 150 games by 2030?

With Neale he shows talent above the VFL but also at times does stuff that would probably not be up to afl. Does he get pushed as side too easily? Does he rely too much on his spring and not enough on creating space thru work? How fit is he following his injury? Is he naturally gritty. Watching that kid Walter that GC will get he resonated that. Has Mooney elements where he is happy to be the aggressor.

I dread to be too critical about VFL form. Being in that VFL side as a forward would be ordinary at times. I could not believe I heard the coach talking the to playing skinny. Watching the VFL, Id want them to use the full width, kick to guys almost hanging over the boundary ..and then go. You've got move it, move it, move it. Thats the way AFL is now. Instead it was like he wants a bogged down the line messy low chance of getting burnt on the rebound. Anyway ..he knows more than me. Just didn't think we tried to play the VFL like we play the AFL ... and I suspect if Hawkins was in the VFL side.. then the coach would be telling them to bust a gut to get it down to him quick.

If thats VFL then I believe Shannon is close to needing to play afl with betters around him. He needs to learn to cope with the next level up..and we need to see him with no excuses. Like with OHenry , id not expect him to be his best but id want contribution. Glimpses. The injury hurt him at the start of the year. I hate guys who get injured at the wrong time. Its an unfair assessment but some guys have a knack for knackering themselves . Now we are in the group of games where we probably cant see him. It will have to be 2024. 2024 and 2025 see him now move into "its time" to be playing afl or you will be passed over. If we compared him to Tom Dek... 4 years on the list ..he started to play a significant number of games. Of course maybe we are hopping for a Zac Guthrie. Rookie drafted 2016. Season 5 he cracked into our side and has not looked back. It would mean 2025 is his year.


So... I do wonder. What does bringing in Tom Dek do to Neales chances of playing.


The potential difference I see between him and Lobb is his mobility and running that he potential could supply. He has shown speed and stamina on the track. Can he make that work for him at an AFL level. Can he , just like Miers, found a way to make his difference work for him. I dont see him as a stand under the ball and bomb forward. He is more a player with elements that hint at Cameron and Blitz and Stanley.


Anyway he is signed at Geelong for two years. I guess we see if you are correct. If he is good enough he will get selected.

Excellent post. I can't quite put my finger on it but maybe you're right, in that the standard of our VFL side and the style we play doesn't suit. Much like Knevitt can't seem to find the ball at the lower level but seems to look a lot better in our AFL side.

I see some things with Neale - like that one-handed pick up at speed - that suggest he has talent, then I see him as being rather lazy at times and lacking a little grunt.

I just haven't seen much to suggest he has natural forward craft, and he's not a ruckman.

Anyway, time will tell.

 

[Turbocat]

Eady solution

Pick up Gaff for very little. He needs a new start
Get Nick Bryan from Essendon. It appears he can handle the level now and it gives Conway more time
Keep our selections unless we get something juicy

If we could get a pick for taking Gaff ..id look at it. A bit like Bowes, id think he would coming and bring what he does well and it would look a lot better in our side. he can run and keep running in a Smith like manner. Odds are he stays at WC and becomes a high priced WAFL player

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Good blood lines. His brother is handy and there is a third one coming.

His uncle also played for Melbourne inc the 89 SF against us which happened to be his last ever game.

The sister is pretty handy too.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

On Shannon Neale, the dude is 20 and has played 26 vfl games and like 2x halves of AFL. 3rdish game back from injury. I'll give him more time

 

[catempire]

On Shannon Neale, the dude is 20 and has played 26 vfl games and like 2x halves of AFL. 3rdish game back from injury. I'll give him more time

And anyone saying he is only a lead mark player condemns themselves to me judging them as not having watched him enough.

 

[Turbocat]

His uncle also played for Melbourne inc the 89 SF against us which happened to be his last ever game.

The sister is pretty handy too.

Genetics is hard to argue against. I think the kid this yer will go before our pick but he is talented no doubt. Wish he would kick a few more goals on his left instead banana shaped ball goals but I guess as long as it works.

 

[Hamingja]

bailey van de heuvel.. 2ould people be happy to rookie him next year if Esava decides to go to Port? The little iv watched on him, the kid can play ... anyone know how old he is?

I thought he might have been like 21/22 but when I looked it up yesterday he is / will be 25 soon which would probably rule it out as he would need to get better than he is currently which is harder at mid 20s than early 20s.

 

[dazbroncos]

Excellent post. I can't quite put my finger on it but maybe you're right, in that the standard of our VFL side and the style we play doesn't suit. Much like Knevitt can't seem to find the ball at the lower level but seems to look a lot better in our AFL side.

I see some things with Neale - like that one-handed pick up at speed - that suggest he has talent, then I see him as being rather lazy at times and lacking a little grunt.

I just haven't seen much to suggest he has natural forward craft, and he's not a ruckman.

Anyway, time will tell.

Im biased

That said he needs work still no doubt but as raw talent and ability goes he's prob the best exponent of things we've brought onto the list as an over 198 guy since Hawkins that WE have drafted.

And i wonder if he's not a bit like Simmo - that he needs the higher grade to be omre successful as at the higher level they work better.

Simmo in the VFL many times does things to space and advantage that his VFL teammates dont read, anticipate or handle well but comes off at AFL level.

Maybe Scratcher needs that environemt of a higher grade, better delivery and "higher boats" to allow his talents to come to the fore a little better.

Still, he needs to improve at the VFL - I agree there too.

GO Catters

 

[CHAWKTS]

Did well as a 19yo young ruck in about 5 of his first 10 games in the VFL.
All without a decent pre season... again injury prior the 2022 season and after the bye last year.
Internally they love him.
He has had Stanley's measure in numerous tap/ruck sessions. And easily. Otto and JJ love him.

You and I are on the same (top) tier of the bandwagon. It does sound a bit odd (given it is rare) but I do believe Toby will be our number 1 ruckman in 2024. That doesn’t mean he won’t be managed in and out with Stanley but he is a better player already (and that is NOT a pot to Stanley - just my view on Toby) but obvioulsy hasn’t proven he can do it for a full game let alone back it up week on week.

He is now lean and his body has been (smartly) build back to being robust (I understand he felt really good post game yesterday)…but of course you can’t replicated game day so he was blowing up a bit yesterday. If we get 5 more VFL games out of him without any issues and he can dive into early preseason then I will be very very bullish.

I understand how hard it is for a 20 year ruckman to be number 1 but I think he is a freak talent

 

[CHAWKTS]

Idluv nothing more than for that to happen - but Joel is a once in a generation type player... like Daicos etc.
It just doesnt happen.
I, like you, think Conway will be the ruck future for us for 12 years - and id luv it to become a reality - but given he's not played a game, really any game this year at all, im gonna hold the enthusiasm line of "Joel and Conway in the same sentence about anyhting" back a little until he gets thru some matches at VFL level.

And AFAIK the club did hold him back to get his foot right and he probably could have played earlier but because of the importance of him being the next 12 yaar guy for us... they wanted him right and went ultra conservative.

Id look for a solid year next year from him at VFL and AFL level as he gets more games.

GO Catters

Your position is more logical….but I am in the Conway being special much earlier than mere mortals. He will be (hopefully with others) our break out next year in a position where it shouldn’t happen for a few more years

 

[CHAWKTS]

I don't think he even gets to a Lobb level. He is good on the lead but seems to be very little of anything else to his game

I agree that this is a good current description of Neale. He is VERY good on the lead and usually a good finisher. He is also athletic (fast and good below his knees). But he is currently very poor in a push and shove contest. I am hopeful that this is something that does improve with time and strength

What he is good at is hard to learn in my view vs what he is bad at. But I think that means he is still 2025 before we really know what we have

 

[D BRIDGE]

bailey van de heuvel.. 2ould people be happy to rookie him next year if Esava decides to go to Port? The little iv watched on him, the kid can play ... anyone know how old he is?

I actually have noticed him a number of times whilst watching the VFL and thought that he looks like the kinda player that could make it onto an AFL list.

 

[Turbocat]

bailey van de heuvel.. 2ould people be happy to rookie him next year if Esava decides to go to Port? The little iv watched on him, the kid can play ... anyone know how old he is?

With players like this ... I wonder how he goes matched against Hawkins or Cameron in training..also like it or not combine data is a factor ..Hard to gauge speed and stamina in the vfl. He can mark obviously. Put it this way, it would not be the first defender we have drafted thru our VFL system.

 

[CHAWKTS]

From Newscorp papers today. All makes sense but I think the list management is a bit more involved than just looking at next year?

Assuming (for the sake of the exercise) that we don’t have anyone retire this year (and when you think about it we only had 1 last year from our best squad)…

The end of next year we will have at least the following thinking about their future…or the club thinking about it

Smith
2E
Stanley
Rohan
Menegola
Hawkins

Then we have (end of next year)
Danger (turning 35)
Bews (who will be an old almost 31 yo?)
Duncan (turning 34)


I am assuming Guthrie, Blitz and Stewart have a few more years left

So that is between 6-9 players ending or close to ending at the end of next year and I can’t believe that they will leave too many for one year? Maybe they are more confident on the last 3 will definitely go to 2025 so they only have 6 to worry about…

Even then I suspect they will be wanting to spread it out (on top of Ceglar who I have a definite out this year!). To me it probably comes down largely to how we finish the year. If this group goes back to back by definition players on this list are still playing at an elite level. So they will be more likely to risk taking more of them into 2024. If we lose badly early then I suspect they will be more brutal

I can see them wanting to do at least 3-4 with Ceglar as one of them. I think Menegola will be gone unless he puts on a show. If we don’t get a new ruckman (TDK?) then Stanley has to go one more year. Rohan I think has to go one more year if he keeps up current level. Hawkins for sure one more year. So that leave Smith, 2E as the question marks?

What do others think of how they might manage? Maybe this is a question for end of Sept?

 

[The Unforgiven]

If Sav wants to go to Port, I hope the club asks for Xavier Duursma in a straight swap. 23yo goalkicking wingman. Had some injuries, but can play..

There's no way Port would do that.