Unsolved Girls that went missing from Adelaide Oval 1973
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Stanley Hart looks good for it.
DropBearess
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"In his first-ever interview, Tony Kilmartin says he was selling lollies and ice cream with his brother at an Australian rules game, when he saw victims Joanne Ratcliffe, 11, and Kirste Gordon, 4, being taken in 1973.
Kilmartin, who was only 13 years old at the time, had previously served the girls and recognised them when the commotion began under a grandstand at the end of the final quarter."
I wonder how Kilmartin "had previously served the girls" though? Kirste and Joanne had only met that day. Even if he'd served just Joanne, he must have a good memory as Norwood only played at Adelaide Oval twice in 1973. Huge crowds attended Adelaide Oval in those golden SANFL days. I otherwise believe his account as an eyewitness.
- Oct 3, 2008
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Did the police even question Hart?
Didn't the lolly seller identify him at the time?
Is this a case of shit police work also?????
Didn't the lolly seller identify him at the time?
Is this a case of shit police work also?????
GreyCrow
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From Wikipedia
Ratcliffe's parents and Gordon's grandmother, who were friends, allowed the two girls to go to the toilet together on two occasions that day.[7] The Ratcliffe family rule was that children were not allowed to go to the toilet during the breaks in the game, or during the last quarter.[5]
- Oct 3, 2008
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yeah i picked that up too.
I was of the understanding they went to toilet during the play and everyone was distracted by the game.
- Aug 9, 2016
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If you read the stories it says that Kilmartin (who was 13 yo) thought Joanne was cute (who was 11yo) and had his eye on her because she was. So it's not just an idle memory it's a memory that flows from their interaction and teen attraction probably just serving her the once with lollies and watching her afterwards. The girls were trying to attract a cat from underneath a van as I recall at point of abduction...Terry Smythe's ( a known pedophile associate of Hart) girls were playing with Joanne and Kirste that day (see post 132/133 page 6) and were questioned by police next day. One of those girls grew up and married Mark Trevor Marshall, Hart's grandson and pedophile informant regarding Hart and the barrels at the Dam. The cross over connections back to Hart are insidious.
An earlier post also referred to Hart being so prolific with his pedophile offending that he was told by police to get out of Adelaide ie go back to Yatina. If true SAPOL were in his pocket it seems because of his known horticultural endeavours at Yatina.
This case and BC case need to be solved for the poor souls of these children and their families. It seems to me that the attitude is everyone is dead now so let's not waste too much money chasing lost causes. Perhaps SAPOL also know that these skeletons in closet exist and want to let them die peacefully. This whole SA situation and Mullighan inquiry investigation is a blight on SA, SAPOL and Australia that these haven't been solved. Let's free their entrapped souls for goodness sake. If there are skeletons In the closet that brands certain police as aiding then that now is a natural consequence of their involvement. Stop the protection
If it's Hart then let's name the scumbag and have him forever branded as a putrid piece of excrement that killed these children.
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- Aug 9, 2016
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Yes agreed. SL saw them from across the river yet was certain it was Brown. it's simply not possible to be certain at that distance. Kilmartin observed the man for some time and thought it matched Hart more. There are so many connections to Hart it's almost inconceivable he wasn't involved. There was some witness testimony that a man with a crazy walk was involved with BC. The man who abduction AO case had a stoop. That is a connection between the cases other than the identakit image. If Hart can be identified as having a stoop or crazy walk it closes the circle. Get cadaver dogs out on any of his properties...prospect, Yatina..then ground penetrating radar then locate their remains. Revisit the barrel testing
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It's interesting that Kilmartin said he went left toward zoo. That is consistent with SL sighting across the river. Yet he was seen much later in opposite direction.
What do I think?
I think there was a pedophile ring involved. I think there was a predetermined collection point toward the zoo but when he had two to drag along the collection point that was abandoned by them. That left the abductor to backtrack toward where he had parked his car in the opposite direction. In the end he still had enough time to escape
Having got back to his car he then subdued them and loaded them in car. To Prospect or Yatina
What do I think?
I think there was a pedophile ring involved. I think there was a predetermined collection point toward the zoo but when he had two to drag along the collection point that was abandoned by them. That left the abductor to backtrack toward where he had parked his car in the opposite direction. In the end he still had enough time to escape
Having got back to his car he then subdued them and loaded them in car. To Prospect or Yatina
"If true SAPOL were in his pocket it seems because of his known horticultural endeavours at Yatina."
please elaborate what your referring to arb ?
I haven't heard that story ?
also, he grew up in Geelong. He’d know the difference between VFA and VFL.
The railway maps from 1974 (a year after). They could’ve taken the train to Dudley Park which stops near Vine St which is where the Scotty sighting was.
Attachments
if he was walking with a stoop then how could her comfortably walk for so long with a four year old under his arm?
What if he was walking that way to shield his face from being seen? If he was wearing a large Oppenheimer hat then his face may not have been clear enough to identify. Maybe that detail was planned, showing a slight level of premed.
Idk if I’m way off here, today is the first time I’ve commented in this thread and the amount of detail and time you all have put into it is phenomenal.
I honestly think any hair DNA would be long gone, especially if the POI was older (DNA in hair breaks down causing the thinning of hair). DNA is only ever found in hair that has been removed from the body rather than falling out, hence why hairbrushes usually contain DNA - from hair being ripped out due to knots. The hat would have to have snagged one of his hairs in the lining and, after almost 50 years, that evidence could be severely compromised.
Fingerprints COULD still be on the hat, however those factors are controlled by the environment. Going through at least 45-50 Australian summers may have destroyed that. Also if people have visited the Yatina site and touched the hat, the evidence would have been tampered with.
It’s a long shot.
I’ve added replies along the way but I’m convinced now that Frank Bone helped plan this. It seemed like he knew that the children would be present and told his associates about it prior to the event. Why was he sitting there while they were looking for the girls? He was trying to help the perp get away. He was stalling for time. I know it’s based on a feeling but the impression that I got was that Frank Bone knew both families and knew that Kirstie would be there. He told his mates and they planned for him to be the one to be there with the parents. His job was to distract the parents. He didn’t really do a good job of it but good enough that the girls got away.
Might be a hot take.
Might be a hot take.
Out of Radan and Hart, Id probably lean towards Radan for the Abduction. In photos I've seen he looks like the Identikit. complete with stoop.
jason_recliner
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It's possible the 'stoop' was just the effect of the weight of carrying and dragging kids.
Macka_321
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I’m yet to see any photos of him. Not sure why channel 7 ran with that as that is old information definitely not recent as was reported.
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No. He showed the stoop walking before he grabbed the girls
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Mate do you have a link to photo?
Pretty sure there are QLD newspaper articles out there with his pic. My first throught he looked more like the BC abductor. Long face and big ears
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With all due respect, to me it just seems like you are desperate to dismiss Sue Lawrie's account.
Kilmartin said they turned left towards the zoo, and you accept that, but then dismiss SL's account that they actually continued in that direction to where she saw them near Frome Rd, and instead, you say they back tracked and believe the account of a sole witness in the opposite direction.
Not only would it seem more plausible for the two separate accounts of them going in the same direction be more likely, but It would seem implausible, that a person who has just abducted 2 children, would want to backtrack past the place where they'd committed the crime and where people would be looking.
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I don't dismiss it at all. But the two need to reconcile. SL says she's certain it's Brown even though she saw them across the river and reported years later.Kilmartin says the person most looks like Hart even though he was major contributor to the identakit (when SL wasn't) and watched the whole abduction unfold closely (because he was fixated on Joanne from teen attraction).The two can't both be correct. The recent under investigation doco identified the two but used facial recognition software on the identakit and it matched Brown at 1,3, 4, Hart not identified close at all even though there are similarities between them. SL can't have been certain if she saw the people from across the river. It disturbs me she said she was. Hart has associate connections and grandson confession letter. Brown lived in QLD and his only connection is SL identifying him with certainty now disputed by the person most responsible for the identification in the first place. Are they both being affected by confirmation bias.....Kilmartin hearing all the stories connecting Hart and SL identifying Brown from his Mackay sisters murder video then knowing he meets the offending profile. I think it's possible. What identification has most veracity? This might seem strange but between the two I lean to Hart now because there should at least be some doubt with what SL saw across the river and she discounts that entirely even though she had to be 30-40 metres away. I think they BOTH saw the abduction but one or both are influenced by confirmation bias to be persuaded to a conclusion on who the identakit actually was. So his testimony aids that SL saw the man but we remain in dispute now as to who it actually was. Throw in the third guy Radan who was visited by SAPOL in QLD jail prior to his death. He was 27 at time of BC and 34 at time of AO.
Having seen an image of Radan his likeness to identakit image is at least as close as Brown in my opinion. He volunteered for permanent detention in 84 upon being convicted for 12 years but has never been released
Having seen an image of Radan his likeness to identakit image is at least as close as Brown in my opinion. He volunteered for permanent detention in 84 upon being convicted for 12 years but has never been released
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