Unsolved Girls that went missing from Adelaide Oval 1973

[Kurve]

Of interest.
- Arthur Brown - The Beaumont Children

 

[charles8]

This is not recent information as been suggested. Guys name is errol george radan was in prison in QLD now dead.

Has anyone got information on when and where exactly both Errol and Lyle radan passed away please?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Has anyone got information on when and where exactly both Errol and Lyle radan passed away please?

Errol was reported as having died last year in jail in QLD. The recent 'new clue' MSM reporting of MC visiting him actually happened 4 years ago. Why then report it as new? To stimulate discussion on anniversary probably but releasing the information AFTER he died is obfuscation by SAPOL allegedly to protect whatever link they had historically to whatever happened and their knowledge of the participants. They are all dead now so reputational harm cant come from truth now.

 

[Angus Young]

It all seems to point to Hart.

 

[bcclaire]

Ok, lets try physics.
The average 30-40yr old walks at 4.5km hr.
The distance from Adelaide Oval to Frome Rd at the Zoo and back to Port Rd Thebarton is approximately 5km.
It should take 1hr6m to do that trip by foot, now consider you're carrying a 4yo child and have an 11yr old pulling at and kicking you in protest, never mind any conversations or wait time however brief.

He had 90 minutes from when they left their seats until the supposed sighting in Port Rd...
There just isnt enough time for all 3 to be right, so when 2 align and 1 cant, you have to bend time to make it work.

Keep in mind the alleged stoop too - that’s going to affect the speed of him walking.

 

[bcclaire]

There are many many things which link Hart to the crime. BL isn't a positive link to help us. Sorry, for some reason he is intent (obsessively so it seems) to volunteer himself as the person solving these and other crimes and adopting his current strategy on perp. He for example has pushed for many years the perp Munro as the BC killer. Age didn't match, offending profile didn't match but it doesn't bother BL. Early in this very thread BL known as Bograt said that Hart's only crime on record was stealing potatoes..We now know in recent investigation and reporting on this thread that wasn't true. He did have pedophile offending. The two crimes are linked by identakit and possibly the stoop/ crazy walk suggesting one perp as likely for both. If BL wanted to prove a positive link there are two connections (and comparable hat isn't one) which would do it. He even suggested that a DNA test of the hat he had proving it was Hart's hat would be conclusive. What rubbish. It proves he wore that hat not that it was the exact hat used by the perp. if Kilmartin says it is the exact hat then that smacks of possible confirmation bias rather than proof.. Eyeglasses for weak shortsightedness and a stoop or crazy walk video or witness testimony of it's existence are the two pieces of evidence. These two things would close the evidence loop. Id also like a definitive forensic of the barrel contents. It's first a weak trace of blood then it's no link whatsoever. What is it exactly? Why has that forensics been so hard to decide? Acid? Then tell us so at which point the barrel loses status as concrete evidence and becomes circumstantial because of it's mention within confession letter

The strong associates link surrounding this crime are very persuasive to Hart's involvement as they are also for a ring.

BL thinking that there’d be viable DNA on that “one of a kind” hat after 50 years is a laugh. I doubt it’s been preserved in a way to do so.

Idk but the whole “Stan is our man” just feels like he is trivialising something that affected families. It’s not just a news story, it’s the lives of two families (or what is left) who want closure for Joanne and Kirstie.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If it's true that Hart abducted two girls simultaneously from a football game another time then it is persuasive for MO. It is persuasive for profile (as a pedophile abducting multiple victims simultaneously is rare) too. I'll believe it when I hear it from MC and that won't happen because allegedly they are hiding their own historical links around Hart's alleged horticultural pursuits.

 

[johnymac1]

Worth a read if anyone was doubting harts involvement.

My only worry with the Yatina line of enquiry. I that the chain of evidence wasn't maintained. Any evidence collected, can't be used in a court of law.
Defence if there was one, could argue the items collected could have been mishandled, contaminated or even manipulated.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

My only worry with the Yatina line of enquiry. I that the chain of evidence wasn't maintained. Any evidence collected, can't be used in a court of law.
Defence if there was one, could argue the items collected could have been mishandled, contaminated or even manipulated.

There won't be a case because all the potential participants in the ring are now dead. I suspect Radan was the last one. At this stage and because of that fact chain of custody is really irrelevant. If the barrels have DNA evidence then it's still important to have a resolution to the case. The girls deserve that as minimum.

 

[johnymac1]

There won't be a case because all the potential participants in the ring are now dead. I suspect Radan was the last one. At this stage and because of that fact chain of custody is really irrelevant. If the barrels have DNA evidence then it's still important to have a resolution to the case. The girls deserve that as minimum.

you don't think there will be some kind of enquiry?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

you don't think there will be some kind of enquiry?

A bit like the Brown situation post his death re Mackay murders. Everyone knows he did it but the case was shelved.

It's possible they sit on whatever they know/ have. It's possible they discuss privately with relatives. whatever evidence exists cant be tested so may never see the light of day other than leaks.

The fact SAPOL took action to question Radan once they realized he was terminal says they had evidence on him somehow. He refused the interview. You need to remember that Radan was under permanent detention never to be released. A further guilty outcome does nothing to his circumstances. They probably pursued him in the hope to get a deathbed confession for his role

I think they have a working theory and some evidence of the role of all players in the ring. We may never see it. After having failed to question him they made statement saying they were unable to exclude him as suspect

 

[johnymac1]

the sightings.

From what I can remember, all of the sightings are of a solo predator and two kids.
Can we eliminate a group or ring involvement? If it was an organised snatching. wouldn't there be a car waiting?

For me it just doesn't add up.
The SL sighting nearer to the zoo- solo abductor and two kids.
The sighting in Bonython Park, by man and his family- solo male and two kids fitting the description.
The questionable Railcar sighting- pretty much the same, man with two girls.
The Lolly seller, closer to the snatch-point- witnessing the abduction male 40s and the two Victims.
The Groundsman, inside the oval grounds- solo predator, the two victims and commotion.

Probably other sightings not mentioned.

 

[bcclaire]

the sightings.

From what I can remember, all of the sightings are of a solo predator and two kids.
Can we eliminate a group or ring involvement? If it was an organised snatching. wouldn't there be a car waiting?

For me it just doesn't add up.
The SL sighting nearer to the zoo- solo abductor and two kids.
The sighting in Bonython Park, by man and his family- solo male and two kids fitting the description.
The questionable Railcar sighting- pretty much the same, man with two girls.
The Lolly seller, closer to the snatch-point- witnessing the abduction male 40s and the two Victims.
The Groundsman, inside the oval grounds- solo predator, the two victims and commotion.

Probably other sightings not mentioned.

The idea of a ring is more connected to the presence of Frank Bone - a man who knew both victims yet did nothing to help look. Bones was considered a family friend of the Ratcliffes but sat there and watched the game idly while a ruckus was beginning. Also he never participated with the police but could have helped shed light on how the girls were acting prior to going to the toilet.

Then there’s the idea of the Ratcliffe family toilet rule. If Bone had been a frequent Flyer at the footy w the family then he would have known of the toilet rule. In the 4th quarter the losing team’s supporters will most likely leave if there’s no win in sight, making the oval busy. I feel like if the Ratcliffe parents had the support of another adult that was there often telling them that it would be safe for Joanne to take Kirstie to the bathroom, then they may have relaxed their rule.

I personally see Bonesy as being some kind of involved. That’s the only tie to a ring I believe but even the most sporadic looking one of crimes can be planned meticulously by a number of people. These men probably think that they are smarter than the average layperson.

 

[Deni]

Yes and no, by itself that old 2 story building that appears as if out of nowhere is in contrast to many along that route, its just an odd place anyway.

Have you been to the Yatina Facebook group?
They're doing the town up, including the pub and they get mighty angry when someone comes in and puts shit on their town, not that that would bother me, I say what I like when I like!

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I don't dismiss a ring at all. Rather I think that's most likely. Why? Bone (an associate) sat with them and didn't help when search started. He also refused to obey 3 inquest subpoenas. He did however leave his seat earlier for about 30 min probably to meet and discuss the abduction. Smythe's kids were actually playing with K&J at the time of the snatch (also an associate). Radan was apparently known to Hart and looked exactly like the identakit..Hart was usually at these games but wasn't that day....probably in the background . Hart lived close to Kirstie GMs house

It wasn't smooth at all. Why I can't explain at this point but was it likely that all these associates were hanging around as a coincidence? Unlikely. It wasn't planned because K being there wasn't planned but I think a plan hatched when they met probably whilst watching K play.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Have you been to the Yatina Facebook group?
They're doing the town up, including the pub and they get mighty angry when someone comes in and puts s**t on their town, not that that would bother me, I say what I like when I like!

Cant say I have, dont do Facebook.
It needs doing up for sure.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I don't dismiss a ring at all. Rather I think that's most likely. Why? Bone (an associate) sat with them and didn't help when search started. He also refused to obey 3 inquest subpoenas. He did however leave his seat earlier for about 30 min probably to meet and discuss the abduction. Smythe's kids were actually playing with K&J at the time of the snatch (also an associate). Radan was apparently known to Hart and looked exactly like the identakit..Hart was usually at these games but wasn't that day....probably in the background . Hart lived close to Kirstie GMs house

It wasn't smooth at all. Why I can't explain at this point but was it likely that all these associates were hanging around as a coincidence? Unlikely. It wasn't planned because K being there wasn't planned but I think a plan hatched when they met probably whilst watching K play.

Ive always thought it had to be set up by someone at the game that day as it was Kirste's first time with her grandmother so no prior knowledge or expectation.
I wonder if they would open the gates at or just before 3/4 time in those days as Bone may have used his 30 minute absence to contact someone outside and have them come in if the gates we're open. Im sure its been discussed in here.

Would be interesting to know if anyone sitting with them gave Kirste drinks during the game to encourage a final toilet break.

Mind you, if the female police officer is correct that Hart molested her, impulse actions are his thing.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

This was a time before mobile phones. So they managed to communicate the 'plan' impromptu on the run somehow. Many have suggested that a plan would involve a car parked in secluded location 20 min walk..So because it happened on the fly they ended up having to carry both for 90 min.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

This was a time before mobile phones. So they managed to communicate the 'plan' impromptu on the run somehow. Many have suggested that a plan would involve a car parked in secluded location 20 min walk..So because it happened on the fly they ended up having to carry both for 90 min.

Possibly a public payphone in the ground or nearby, I wonder if phone records we're available and checked at the time.

 

[nominal_port_supporter]

I don't dismiss a ring at all. Rather I think that's most likely. Why? Bone (an associate) sat with them and didn't help when search started. He also refused to obey 3 inquest subpoenas. He did however leave his seat earlier for about 30 min probably to meet and discuss the abduction. Smythe's kids were actually playing with K&J at the time of the snatch (also an associate). Radan was apparently known to Hart and looked exactly like the identakit..Hart was usually at these games but wasn't that day....probably in the background . Hart lived close to Kirstie GMs house

It wasn't smooth at all. Why I can't explain at this point but was it likely that all these associates were hanging around as a coincidence? Unlikely. It wasn't planned because K being there wasn't planned but I think a plan hatched when they met probably whilst watching K play.

How closely do you think Bone was associated to the others? Do you know of any sexual abuse allegations directly towards him? I only ask, because if he himself wasn't a pedophile, what did he gain from being in the ring - money?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

How closely do you think Bone was associated to the others? Do you know of any sexual abuse allegations directly towards him? I only ask, because if he himself wasn't a pedophile, what did he gain from being in the ring - money?

I know what I've read here and that he was on periphery and an enabler of the pedophiles. Why? I could ask the same question about Max McIntyre and Andrew with Munro. I don't know. Was he somehow involved in the horticultural pursuits of Hart? Have no idea what he got out of it. Somewhere along the line he must have had some reward

 

[metic]

There was discussion around page 6 of this thread where it was mentioned he was in the trade



The time elapse from first abduction to last sighting was 90 minutes and they had traveled 3klm only. It supports that there was a move toward the zoo (where seen by SL) then backtrack toward where last seen in opposite direction. The elapse time of 90 minutes meant it wasn't comfortable at all. Was an utter struggle in fact. The only reason imo why he'd go a wrong direction is if there was a known pickup point from a ring but they may have abandoned it when he took two instead only one. Perhaps he had a specified time to get there and Joanne fighting so strongly ruined it meaning he had to drag them back to his car parked elsewhere

hi arb, I tried to find page 6 but there is no page numbers when I searched.
can you please elaborate, what post numbers? dates perhaps ? or just say what he was growing because i think "cannabis" when you say "horticulture pursuits"

 

[bcclaire]

hi arb, I tried to find page 6 but there is no page numbers when I searched.
can you please elaborate, what post numbers? dates perhaps ? or just say what he was growing because i think "cannabis" when you say "horticulture pursuits"

Post #94 is the first mention

 

[jason_recliner]

DNA can last for thousands of years intact if it has been preserved and packaged correctly.

Not really, it doesn't need to be packaged at all. The degree and duration of preservation depends on the presence of oxidising factors. e.g. DNA will be more intact if kept in dry shaded place, like a box or building, than if sitting in a field.

 

[Zebo]

Has anyone got information on when and where exactly both Errol and Lyle radan passed away please?

Lyle Owen Radan d 14/11/22 aged 80, last residence Pelican Point SA, cremated 1/12/22 at Carinya Cremation Mt Gambier

 

[charles8]

Lyle Owen Radan d 14/11/22 aged 80, last residence Pelican Point SA, cremated 1/12/22 at Carinya Cremation Mt Gambier