Science/Environment God does not exist, yet...

[clogged]

One scientific issue with this theory is that entropy of the universe is always increasing, meaning information is always decreasing. By the end of the universe's life there will be zero information, not infinite information.

 

[Lester Burnham]

One scientific issue with this theory is that entropy of the universe is always increasing, meaning information is always decreasing. By the end of the universe's life there will be zero information, not infinite information.

The second law of thermodynamics, that entropy always increases, applies to systems that are closed. If the universe were infinite would the second law of thermodynamics apply? But, if the universe is finite, there is no limit, in principle, to the amount of information that could be processed. It's a big 'if' but of profound consequence.

If the universe is not infinite and at some point beings to shrink, will everything reverse? Entropy, the arrow of time? Will particles with entanglement that were spread all over the universe become more correlated?

Does life counteract entropy? This is Schrödinger's other paradox.

In a world governed by the second law of thermodynamics, all isolated systems are expected to approach a state of maximum disorder. Since life approaches and maintains a highly ordered state - some argue that this seems to violate the aforementioned Second Law implicating a paradox. However, since life is not an isolated system, there is no paradox. The increase of order inside an organism is more than paid for by an increase in disorder outside this organism. By this mechanism, the Second Law is obeyed, and life maintains a highly ordered state, which it sustains by causing a net increase in disorder in the Universe.​

So a super intelligent consciousness/computing power entity would not violate the second law. Like humans, it would create order (reduce entropy) in its domain and increase entropy elsewhere.

 

[clogged]

That disorder payment for life comes from the Sun burning up its highly ordered state for 'free' energy. Not so much the universe itself. It's a syntropic relationship between the sun and the earth.

 

[Pie eyed]

Me too but in a secular way...

 

[Pie eyed]

That disorder payment for life comes from the Sun burning up its highly ordered state for 'free' energy. Not so much the universe itself. It's a syntropic relationship between the sun and the earth.

Both of which a mere ****teenths of millifartessimals of the universe...so yeah...definitely the universe itself.

 

[Partridge]

Science it could be argued is a product of religion.

Or more specifically, it's a product of religion's requirement to be seen as the holder of ultimate truth. Leaders that could predict natural phenomena would always be seen as having the ear of the gods by those that didn't know better. As they say, be careful what you wish for.

That's the best thing about science - ultimate truth doesn't exist. Everything is tentative, everything is subject to revision.

 

[Lester Burnham]

That disorder payment for life comes from the Sun burning up its highly ordered state for 'free' energy. Not so much the universe itself. It's a syntropic relationship between the sun and the earth.

Life as we know it is currently limited to our solar system and by our biology. In the long term it is likely neither limitation will apply.

 

[John]

There are no gods. There never have been.

 

[Lester Burnham]

There are no gods. There never have been.

I don't you have grasped the point of this thread John.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Even if you have infinite informatrion, which seems impossible (and unnecessary) in a finite universe, that doesn't imply omnipotence. There can still be information missing. Indeed, to my untrained excuse for a mind if the Uncertainty Principle applies there MUST be missing information and therefore omnipotence is impossible. (That is, within physical laws. Any Gods which existed to cause creation may set their own rules outside physics I guess).

As for the idea that information could be missing from infinite information. The simple analogy is the set of integers. It is infinite, yet numbers exist ouside that set. Infinite, but not omnipotent. Or should that be omnipresent.

 

[John]

I don't you have grasped the point of this thread John.

yet...

 

[Milkshaker]

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/atheist.html

 

[Sydney Bloods]

you poor deluded fool the bananas you eat do have a creator US.

they are domesticated version of wild bananas

It's called selective evolution.
we did it with cows, we did it with dogs we did it with fruit and veg.

In fact there's barely a thing left on the planet not bred by us either through selective breeding of traits we want or through our impact on the world.

much like the coke can we did it. theres literally millions of examples of things HUMANS have designed developed evolved including other people, again and again rooting creating more people we train them and focus on traits we deem desirable so they get past on to the next generation.

All that sight suggests is that we are GOD!

 

[Lester Burnham]

The first genetically modified humans were born in 2001 and their children will inherit the modified genes. We have reached the point where we can influence our own evolution.

 

[skilts]

Does life counteract entropy? This is Schrödinger's other paradox.

I thought Schrodinger was more into cats than parrots.

 

[Lester Burnham]

I thought Schrodinger was more into cats than parrots.

In theory Schrodinger's experiment works just as well with a parrot. But you get into arguments about whether the parrot is dead or "just resting".

 

[Malifice]

In other words, if the universe does not expand forever, at some point an infinite amount of information will be able to be processed. A finite universe would be evolving towards a supreme point of complexity and consciousness. It's not a God in the religious sense, existing outside space and time. It's a scientific phenomenon. As Arthur C. Clarke said 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic'.

Doesn't the second law of thermodynamics kind of crush this theory?

 

[evo]

Scientists like Frank Tipler don't use the word infinity loosely. He's a Professor of Mathematical Physics who has written a book solely about the subject, complete with dozens of complex equations. It's a shame he goes on to link it all to Christian mythology because many people have rejected his theory because of that.

Here's David Deutsch reviewing Tipler's work (+ Tipler's comments ).

The key discovery in the omega-point theory is that of a class of cosmological models in which, though the universe is finite in both space and time, the memory capacity, the number of possible computational steps and the effective energy supply are all unlimited.

I believe that the omega-point theory deserves to become the prevailing theory of the future of spacetime until and unless it is experimentally (or otherwise) refuted.​

http://129.81.170.14/~tipler/physicist.html

sounds interesting.

Anyhoo, if, for arguments sake, we accept that infinite computing power is not possible, in practise, the universe is still evolving towards increasing computational power, complexity and consciousness. In the distant future that might create entities that possess what we would consider Godlike powers. Humanity is likely to be just another stepping stone in evolution.

yeah that definitely makes sense. Recent film Interstellar comes to mind. It wasnt ideal, but some of the ideas explored were quiet interesting.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Doesn't the second law of thermodynamics kind of crush this theory?

If the thread hadn't been invaded by giant bananas you might have seen the earlier post about this.

 

[Pie eyed]

In theory Schrodinger's experiment works just as well with a parrot. But you get into arguments about whether the parrot is dead or "just resting".

Pining for the Fiordes....

A grade reference..

 

[Sydney Bloods]

In theory Schrodinger's experiment works just as well with a parrot. But you get into arguments about whether the parrot is dead or "just resting".

HA!