Opinion Gold Coast should be allowed to pay Ben King outside the Salary Cap

[eastfreo75]

They can fold too.

14 clubs. 26 week season. Everyone plays everyone twice.

The AFL expansion has been a massively expensive failure.

St Kilda and Hawthorn should merge and be relocated to Tasmania.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

In the sense that noone watches them play and noone wants to be there and it takes dozens of players out of the system.

Why arent all those participants watching them play if the club inspired them to play themselves?

Are the ratings and game attendances a lie? Or are the increased numbers playing a lie? Or is there limited correlation between the 2 ?

Are you measuring success of AFL expansion into Queensland (and elsewhere) by the size of the crowd that turns up on Saturday night to Metricon? Seems a pretty basic take on things.

What are the TV / streaming numbers across the state compared with 15 years ago?
Junior / female participation rates showing family investment. Surely these markers are more important.

Participation rates for junior footy is likely to translate to invested patrons over a number of years as they get older, have kids, and we start to build the intergenerational AFL fan. Thats when you will see success. This was always a 25+ year investment from the AFL so to judge it after the first 10 years is just naive.

With respect to the home crowds

19k in the first season
11k at the nadir.
Mostly ~13k

For reference - the Gold Coast Titans haven't had an average crowd size >15k since 2011.

A number of reasons that attendance isn't optimal.

- #1 the team has never been successful. In 2014 crowd numbers rose as the team was going half decently. We don't have multi-generational fans, casuals are going to drop off with poor performance. Happens with every club.

- Poor scheduling of game times. Major proportion of the crowds are families. People on the Gold Coast are morning people - no one wants to be at the football until 10:30pm, getting home toward midnight, when everyone is up by 5:30 - 6am taking in the beautiful weather. We don't get enough afternoon games scheduled. As the ground is right next to the river it gets very dewy at night. The night games = terrible spectacle. No one wants night games - yet we keep getting handed them.

- Terrible design of public transport to the ground makes leaving in a timely manner somewhat difficult - even with low crowd numbers. Major failing on the. club / city council that this hasn't been addressed.


Crowds will come as some of the above are addressed.
If we see the team fighting for top 8 contention and public transport gets fixed up (light rail in the works.. timeframe, unsure) we will see toward 20k at the games again.

But match-day crowds at this early stage are a very basic metric of determining success of the AFL investment into non-traditional areas. I assure you, the AFL and the Suns are looking at lots of different factors.

 

[Bostonian]

The Victorian AFL teams have little to nothing to do with developing junior Victorian AFL players though even if they're NGA academy.

If you could only draft from recruiting zones, I reckon the WA teams would be right at the top.
This was from 2019 AFL lists

View attachment 1256333

Victoria - 56 players per Victorian AFL team
WA and SA - 60 players per team
NSW and QLD - 20 players per team


At the moment the Suns list (including current trades / delisting / retirements)
- 14 players who played junior football in Victoria
- 12 from QLD
- 10 from SA
- 3 from WA
- 2 from NSW
- 2 from NT

No shit, we're not permitted to is why

 

[Choc Milk]

Are you measuring success of AFL expansion into Queensland (and elsewhere) by the size of the crowd that turns up on Saturday night to Metricon? Seems a pretty basic take on things.

What are the TV / streaming numbers across the state compared with 15 years ago?
Junior / female participation rates showing family investment. Surely these markers are more important.

Participation rates for junior footy is likely to translate to invested patrons over a number of years as they get older, have kids, and we start to build the intergenerational AFL fan. Thats when you will see success. This was always a 25+ year investment from the AFL so to judge it after the first 10 years is just naive.

With respect to the home crowds

19k in the first season
11k at the nadir.
Mostly ~13k

For reference - the Gold Coast Titans haven't had an average crowd size >15k since 2011.

A number of reasons that attendance isn't optimal.

- #1 the team has never been successful. In 2014 crowd numbers rose as the team was going half decently. We don't have multi-generational fans, casuals are going to drop off with poor performance. Happens with every club.

- Poor scheduling of game times. Major proportion of the crowds are families. People on the Gold Coast are morning people - no one wants to be at the football until 10:30pm, getting home toward midnight, when everyone is up by 5:30 - 6am taking in the beautiful weather. We don't get enough afternoon games scheduled. As the ground is right next to the river it gets very dewy at night. The night games = terrible spectacle. No one wants night games - yet we keep getting handed them.

- Terrible design of public transport to the ground makes leaving in a timely manner somewhat difficult - even with low crowd numbers. Major failing on the. club / city council that this hasn't been addressed.


Crowds will come as some of the above are addressed.
If we see the team fighting for top 8 contention and public transport gets fixed up (light rail in the works.. timeframe, unsure) we will see toward 20k at the games again.

But match-day crowds at this early stage are a very basic metric of determining success of the AFL investment into non-traditional areas. I assure you, the AFL and the Suns are looking at lots of different factors.

I just moved up here and everything you have said is spot on.

It's impossible to sleep in up here. you are up at 5:30am every morning.

We tried to go to the Carlton game and it was horrific, no car parking, no public transport, it was horrible. The game was so bad we left at half time

 

[Julio Dulio]

I am not a Gold Coast fan but I am getting sick of Victorian clubs acting like vultures towards Gold Coast players.

Not sure why they can’t sell the Gold Coast better!! Who’d want to live in Melbourne when you can go to the beach everyday, I’d pick Gold Coast and never leave


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Kwality]

The idea of academies is to help with player retention but it is a slow process. Gold Coast only have a few academy players on their list.

Academies are only talked about as a negative by the Melbourne centric AFL media.
That Heeney & Mills are playing AFL footy at the highest level is seen as a negative for the knockers, when it is an example of growing the game in NRL heartland.

 

[lewdogs]

Whether they pay Ben within the salary cap or not, players basically choose where they want to go now and a career is about 12-14 years. If he wants to go he is gone.

 

[Kwality]

That's the small limited reward for giving up recruiting zones and access to junior players.

GC benefits far more from Victoria producing players than players wanting to go home.

Lift your gaze to the game. The heartland States need to lead with 100+ years behind them.

Of course the go home factor is real, but as we see now with Rory Lobb, sometimes home in your mid 20s is not the same as it was when you left as an 18 year old.
You can look at the VFL history to know that, the likes of Syd Jackson live in WA whilst Alec Epis & Ken Hunter are now Victorians.

The heartland States should be expected to more players into the player pool than they need themselves, IF we are dinkum about growing the game.

 

[Kwality]

Whether they pay Ben within the salary cap or not, players basically choose where they want to go now and a career is about 12-14 years. If he wants to go he is gone.

But is that good for the game nationally ?

 

[Kwality]

No sh*t, we're not permitted to is why

Is that correct, is it a preference you want, or is it growing the player pool.

 

[hilly]

As opposed to authentic clubs that have been around forever but even so very few people actually support?

That didn't take long.

 

[Bostonian]

Lift your gaze to the game. The heartland States need to lead with 100+ years behind them.

Of course the go home factor is real, but as we see now with Rory Lobb, sometimes home in your mid 20s is not the same as it was when you left as an 18 year old.
You can look at the VFL history to know that, the likes of Syd Jackson live in WA whilst Alec Epis & Ken Hunter are now Victorians.

The heartland States should be expected to more players into the player pool than they need themselves, IF we are dinkum about growing the game.

I couldn't care less if the game isn't popular in the GC though.

My club isn't going to benefit from the game getting a bit popular on the GC, only one team benefits from that. The whole league benefits from Vic players though.

To the majority of average football fans outside of GC, the club is a massive irrelevance.

 

[Kwality]

I couldn't care less if the game isn't popular in the GC though.

My club isn't going to benefit from the game getting a bit popular on the GC, only one team benefits from that. The whole league benefits from Vic players though.

To the majority of average football fans outside of GC, the club is a massive irrelevance.

Some of us think growing the game nationally is every bit as important as the success of our club. I do accept your view is widely held in Victoria.

As a member of the Blues in the VFL era, I am aware of how poorly the Blues have adapted to the national comp & why many fans look back for success not forward. The current days maladministration goes back to shafting Ratts, its self inflicted.

 

[Ron The Bear]

No. The AFL elected to establish a team in this godforsaken football outpost and it's up to the club with the considerable favours afforded them to make it a happy place.

 

[lewdogs]

But is that good for the game nationally ?

You can't force uncontracted players to play for a club against their will. Whether or not it's good for the national game is beside the point.

 

[jwikked]

I am sorry if this is going to be likely an unpopular opinion but I am one of those seemingly rare traditional state footy club supporters who wants the Suns to flourish and succeed in our league, and I think The AFL should introduce a Franchise Player rule (which I believe Ricky Nixon suggested years ago) where a club can pay its Marquee/Star of the club player/asset outside of The Salary Cap (within ATO reasons of course)

The Suns really cannot afford to lose BK after what they have been through, and I have no problem or issue whatsoever if the AFL can put in place a system where he can earn at least twice as much P/A than any other Eastern/Southern based club chasing him.

BTW this whole Franchise player OTC philosophy shouldn't just apply to the Suns, I would like it to apply to all clubs once over say during a 5-10 year period, to insure some equality in the game, especially for Non Victorian Clubs..

Gold Coast and the game of footy simply cannot afford to let Ben King slip out of the Suns fingers, and I would like to see some innovative measures put in place to ensure he re-signs at The Suns.

At any rate, it's either that or the Suns will get pick 1 as a Priority Pick compo if they lose King to say St Kilda or Essendon (or whatever club wins his services who will pay severe unders for a player of Ben's calibre anmm 0d upside, don't think for a moment the AFL and Gil won't do it either)

Gold Coast have had enough gifts from the AFL, they don't need anything else. At some point they have to realise that THEY are the problem - not the rest of the AFL.

 

[Kwality]

No. The AFL elected to establish a team in this godforsaken football outpost and it's up to the club with the considerable favours afforded them to make it a happy place.

That is spot on, the guys who have stayed the course are few in number.
The AFL have been pulling the strings, the wrong strings. We all know the claims of multiple premierships based on kids, has not eventuated at either of the (poorly executed) expansion clubs.

AFL Tables - Player Statistics - Gold Coast

That Jarrod Harbrow is the games record holder & is a Queenslander is revealing for anyone prepared to look at what has happened as a guide of what succeeds.

 

[Kwality]

You can't force uncontracted players to play for a club against their will. Whether or not it's good for the national game is beside the point.

We all know the legal status of kids being drafted & contracts fall into the same category.
If you want to play in the AFL comp, you play by their rules - if you dont like it, there is always the State comps .... but they dont pay enough/ they dont have the public support .. etc.

If you look back to the State League days, kids stood out of footy for 12 months to get a clearance.

 

[Bostonian]

Some of us think growing the game nationally is every bit as important as the success of our club. I do accept your view is widely held in Victoria.

As a member of the Blues in the VFL era, I am aware of how poorly the Blues have adapted to the national comp & why many fans look back for success not forward. The current days maladministration goes back to shafting Ratts, its self inflicted.

The most important goal is to put the most resources and effort into making Victoria as strong as possible.

The competition is highly dependent on it.

GC is a side thought and if it folded, little would change for the competition.

 

[HairyO]

That is spot on, the guys who have stayed the course are few in number.
The AFL have been pulling the strings, the wrong strings. We all know the claims of multiple premierships based on kids, has not eventuated at either of the (poorly executed) expansion clubs.

AFL Tables - Player Statistics - Gold Coast

That Jarrod Harbrow is the games record holder & is a Queenslander is revealing for anyone prepared to look at what has happened as a guide of what succeeds.

4 year contract for top 10, 3 year for 11 to 20, 2 year for everyone else.

When the AFLPA complain tell them to **** off or reduce player payments.

 

[Ron The Bear]

That Jarrod Harbrow is the games record holder & is a Queenslander is revealing for anyone prepared to look at what has happened as a guide of what succeeds.

Brisbane had similar problems a few years ago when Yeo, Docherty, Crisp etc bailed. They addressed it and have a settled list.

Gold Coast got a player welfare guy in from the WAFL a while back who has just finished up, with no suggestion he did a bad job. They just need to keep working to catch up to other clubs.

 

[Kwality]

4 year contract for top 10, 3 year for 11 to 20, 2 year for everyone else.

When the AFLPA complain tell them to fu** off or reduce player payments.

Even the PA is across the challenges of growing the game.

 

[Kwality]

Brisbane had similar problems a few years ago when Yeo, Docherty, Crisp etc bailed. They addressed it and have a settled list.

Gold Coast got a player welfare guy in from the WAFL a while back who has just finished up, with no suggestion he did a bad job. They just need to keep working to catch up to other clubs.

Keeping personnel is just another example of the difficulty the Suns face.

 

[HairyO]

Even the PA is across the challenges of growing the game.

The PA really only cares about the salaries of the top 20%.

 

[sprockets]

Yeah pay him millions on the proviso he gives some of it to his teammates. Nothing wrong with that...