List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

[Gralin]

Brisbane is interesting. Did they over achieve in 2019 or are they about to take a big step forward?

I expect the Giants to be top 3 in 2020. They get considerable talent back after a year full of injuries. Their list is in far better shape than ours.

Brisbane is interesting, don't think they will be this year's Melbourne but you never know
We keep saying next year when GWS is healthy.
The reality is they've never been able to do that.
If they keep the same path with Cameron and their medical team I don't see them getting there.

True, but they have beaten us 4 (or 3?) times in that period and have a very young, exciting and improving list. They well and truly went past us this last season.

Over the last two years they have been on an upward trajectory, whilst we have been going the other way. The games won over the last two seasons may be even, but that doesn't tell the whole story.

2018 we were convincingly better than Brisbane over the course of the year despite losing to them.

2019 was in some ways a step back but we had some key new pieces start to emerge while Mitchell was out.

We should be better in 2020, whether we can improve enough is the question.

 

[tige19]

**** is elite, the list they have is high level from back to front, maybe just maybe they may start to drop off in the ruck department with Martin ageing but even that’s a stretch. I have no doubt we are in for a sustained period of Brisbane being at the top end of the ladder, with that said who really knows if they are premiership capable?

We are in a very very interesting position, on paper if we are healthy we may cause some big problems for the league. Our midfield really struggled for large parts of 2019 with no Titch, we wanted Jags to take the next step and I think it’s relatively clear he isn’t a top dog, but what we unearthed was duck free future Joel Selwood in Worps, given we also add Finn to our squad (who could very well give Worpel like injection straight up) and have a solid supporting cast in Shiels, Chad (who may be a dominate mid) and Silk when needed and all of a sudden we have a good mix of high end performers and solid back ups.

I just hope to god that Clarko takes a somewhat more direct style of play, give our forwards the chance to win us games. To often last year we played lateral footy with fear of turning it over and being scored against, it worked at times but it also cost us against teams we should be beating, the Saints game was the most obvious one.

Being healthy and attacking a little more would be nice.

 

[Furn2]

Can't really compare our drafting to Brisbane's, they've used 17 top 30 picks compared to our 3 and 5 top 10 picks including 1,2,3 to our 0 in the GW period.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Brisbane is interesting. Did they over achieve in 2019 or are they about to take a big step forward?

I expect the Giants to be top 3 in 2020. They get considerable talent back after a year full of injuries. Their list is in far better shape than ours.

Honestly think its both. I have a feeling they will finish top 4 again but last year was a massive step in their development. In saying that finishing top 4 again is a massive step forward imo so that they continue to have the belief they can win it.

 

[Gralin]

Honestly think its both. I have a feeling they will finish top 4 again but last year was a massive step in their development. In saying that finishing top 4 again is a massive step forward imo so that they continue to have the belief they can win it.

I think they have the football department in place to not do a Melbourne.
They are reaping the benefits of high draft picks and turning their culture around much like we did when Clarko arrived.

Good on them if they can continue.

I say if because the league it littered with young improving teams that couldn't sustain it for various reasons. It's not automatic they have to keep improving

 

[Luv_our_club]

We need a couple of players to really turn our heads in 2020 at AFL level, such as golds, walker, ross.

Otherwise there will be too many "maybe" and "likely never" players under age 22. We will have a cluster of them.

 

[Davo-27]

I have liked the work of Mark McKenzie in the 2 drafts so far, picking up Kosi and bidding on Walker were good efforts in 2018 where we had very little to work with and this years draft was interesting, we had the option to go Kemp or Gould but he went Day who is a very clever player similar to Mackie from Geelong instead and im hopeful the decision works out in our favour, although i still think Kemp has the ability to be the next Cripps/Bont/Fyfe which could burn us if he does, Maginness where we got him was a bonus, not only does he have a solid game style and good strengths, but his pace and endurance are at the top end (hopefully he can implement these qualities into his game a bit more), we got a nice little bonus in Pepper who is a strongly built flanker, good one v one and competitive, his only weakness is his general kicking, but if he can work around that he can be a talent, Morris and Jeka are picks i wouldnt have made having seen them this year, i think that was more that we missed out on the talent because prior to Morris pick we lost out on Ruscoe and Cahill and so because we failed or werent interested in trading back into the draft our 3rd pick was a player not in the draftable group imo, although there were other options i would have been more excited about, it didnt eventuate, maybe Mark should take all the picks in the top 55 or so picks, then after that refer to Wrights smokeys? might be the best drafting strategy?

from what i have heard we tried trading back in to get our 3rd player at some stage and our trades were rejected as this draft was a little over-priced, we then took the position of selling our picks to gain picks next season for trade currency which was smart, but i felt that we could have traded back in around pick 50-55 to guarantee a 3rd quality player instead of Morris, which i would have thought was the best option, but its done now and is history, Jeka as a rookie is a gamble, which is what rookies are for, but again there were other talents i would have liked us to gamble on instead.

 

[Davo-27]

We need a couple of players to really turn our heads in 2020 at AFL level, such as golds, walker, ross.

Otherwise there will be too many "maybe" and "likely never" players under age 22. We will have a cluster of them.

if i were to make a prediction on the 22 and under players:

Worpel - already a star
Morrison - backup wing/flanker
Glass - unlikely
Cousins - backup mid
Nash - will work into being a role player forw i think
Scrimshaw - potential star
Lewis- potential star
Moore - lacks speed which really hurts his game at the highest level
Walker - contested marking goal kicker forw who can also play midfield
Kosi - potential number 1 key back
Ross - x-factor forw, will he be given the opportunities?
Jiath - squad hbf type
Jones - love his passion for the game, but just lacks the polish
Hanrahan - had a good few games for the Hawks, but still the jury is out
Greaves - hbf with some talent, might be a squad player
Golds - squad winger, needs to do more to stay on the list
Reeves - developing ruck, tap ruckman
Day - potential star
Maginness - potential star
Morris - medium forw, depends on his VFL form might get a shot
Jeka - athletic tall forw with a good game style, but ineffective overall
Pepper - tough solidly built flanker who is competitive and wins 1 v 1's, kicking can let him down sometimes, but a good player overall

the 8 players i have highlighted im a fan of how they play, they are more than just role players imo.

role players: Morrison, Cousins, Nash, Jiath, Pepper

players i like but have yet to prove themselves/ probably wont make it: Moore, Jones, Hanrahan, Greaves, Golds, Reeves, Glass, Morris, Jeka

 

[Brant]

Davo-27 you're clearly underwhelmed (or at best, cautious) on Jeka.

Doyou think he might be better suited as a KPD?

Or perhaps someone better suited to higher-level footy, made look better by the disposal & game style of those around them*?



*Yeh, we'd all love that luxury, to be the 22nd Best Player made to look better than they are by being surrounded by stars, but in the context of a KPP, you'd sometimes afford them that slack by what they might bring.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I have been impressed with Jeka this pre season

 

[Luv_our_club]

if i were to make a prediction on the 22 and under players:

Worpel - already a star
Morrison - backup wing/flanker
Glass - unlikely
Cousins - backup mid
Nash - will work into being a role player forw i think
Scrimshaw - potential star
Lewis- potential star
Moore - lacks speed which really hurts his game at the highest level
Walker - contested marking goal kicker forw who can also play midfield
Kosi - potential number 1 key back
Ross - x-factor forw, will he be given the opportunities?
Jiath - squad hbf type
Jones - love his passion for the game, but just lacks the polish
Hanrahan - had a good few games for the Hawks, but still the jury is out
Greaves - hbf with some talent, might be a squad player
Golds - squad winger, needs to do more to stay on the list
Reeves - developing ruck, tap ruckman
Day - potential star
Maginness - potential star
Morris - medium forw, depends on his VFL form might get a shot
Jeka - athletic tall forw with a good game style, but ineffective overall
Pepper - tough solidly built flanker who is competitive and wins 1 v 1's, kicking can let him down sometimes, but a good player overall

the 8 players i have highlighted im a fan of how they play, they are more than just role players imo.

role players: Morrison, Cousins, Nash, Jiath, Pepper

players i like but have yet to prove themselves/ probably wont make it: Moore, Jones, Hanrahan, Greaves, Golds, Reeves, Glass, Morris, Jeka

Maginness a potential star? He wasn't a star at TAC Cup level.

There are huge question marks over Finn making it at all (as there are over most picks outside the top 10)

I think Jeka and Morris have as much chance of being a star as Finn.

 

[Davo-27]

Davo-27 you're clearly underwhelmed (or at best, cautious) on Jeka.

Doyou think he might be better suited as a KPD?

Or perhaps someone better suited to higher-level footy, made look better by the disposal & game style of those around them*?



*Yeh, we'd all love that luxury, to be the 22nd Best Player made to look better than they are by being surrounded by stars, but in the context of a KPP, you'd sometimes afford them that slack by what they might bring.

i have seen a lot of Jeka play, maybe too much, he is a nice mark and has decent agility for a tall, the way i see him is a tall with good athletic traits and poor footy skills, his job as a leading forward is to kick goals and set up goals, he sets up few goals and has kicked 17 gls in 25 games in over 2 years of footy (if you cant count, thats under a goal a game in the u18's), he played KPD in 2 games and didnt set the world on fire, in fact looked out of position for the most part, his team mate the son of Glenn Manton kicked 38 goals in 18 games, Archi Manton 185cm strongly built, so in context a guy you've never heard of that didnt get drafted kicked 3 times the goals Jeka did in the same team.....

 

[Davo-27]

Maginness a potential star? He wasn't a star at TAC Cup level.

There are huge question marks over Finn making it at all (as there are over most picks outside the top 10)

I think Jeka and Morris have as much chance of being a star as Finn.

at times Finn did star, against Oakleigh he usually did really well, only lowering his colours to Rowell who was usually BOG in most important games, Finn played a really good game for VM against Tom Green, they were going head to head which was entertaining at the champs, Finn is inconsistent and some games he could have done more, but if he can bring that type of game to the AFL and get stronger he could have a similar career to Josh Kennedy, maybe not as good, but he has that style of play.

Finn has a chance of being a good player, its not guaranteed, it will come from hard work and belief in himself imo.

 

[Luv_our_club]

at times Finn did star, against Oakleigh he usually did really well, only lowering his colours to Rowell who was usually BOG in most important games, Finn played a really good game for VM against Tom Green, they were going head to head which was entertaining at the champs, Finn is inconsistent and some games he could have done more, but if he can bring that type of game to the AFL and get stronger he could have a similar career to Josh Kennedy, maybe not as good, but he has that style of play.

Finn has a chance of being a good player, its not guaranteed, it will come from hard work and belief in himself imo.

Sorry Davo-27. I think that is all wrong.

Finn's problem was not inconsistency. His problem was he never could reach a truly elite level.

In the TAC he was only ever elite at the ball drop and with his hands, but even then his decision making let him down with his hands at times. And being the first choice option for the ruck tap was his primary role. He wasn't expected to tackle.

He didn't have elite run. Nor speed. Nor disposal. Nor marking.

If Finn tracks his form at AFL level, he comes out like a Liam Shiels. That is fulfilling his full potential. That is fantastic.

Comparisons with Kennedy are lotto ticket stuff. Not impossible. We live in hope.

 

[Brant]

i have seen a lot of Jeka play, maybe too much, he is a nice mark and has decent agility for a tall, the way i see him is a tall with good athletic traits and poor footy skills, his job as a leading forward is to kick goals and set up goals, he sets up few goals and has kicked 17 gls in 25 games in over 2 years of footy (if you cant count, thats under a goal a game in the u18's), he played KPD in 2 games and didnt set the world on fire, in fact looked out of position for the most part, his team mate the son of Glenn Manton kicked 38 goals in 18 games, Archi Manton 185cm strongly built, so in context a guy you've never heard of that didnt get drafted kicked 3 times the goals Jeka did in the same team.....

Thank fu** you're here because I can't count. I'm just glad that with all your counting ability, you're barely condescending at all.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I have liked the work of Mark McKenzie in the 2 drafts so far, picking up Kosi and bidding on Walker were good efforts in 2018 where we had very little to work with and this years draft was interesting, we had the option to go Kemp or Gould but he went Day who is a very clever player similar to Mackie from Geelong instead and im hopeful the decision works out in our favour, although i still think Kemp has the ability to be the next Cripps/Bont/Fyfe which could burn us if he does, Maginness where we got him was a bonus, not only does he have a solid game style and good strengths, but his pace and endurance are at the top end (hopefully he can implement these qualities into his game a bit more), we got a nice little bonus in Pepper who is a strongly built flanker, good one v one and competitive, his only weakness is his general kicking, but if he can work around that he can be a talent, Morris and Jeka are picks i wouldnt have made having seen them this year, i think that was more that we missed out on the talent because prior to Morris pick we lost out on Ruscoe and Cahill and so because we failed or werent interested in trading back into the draft our 3rd pick was a player not in the draftable group imo, although there were other options i would have been more excited about, it didnt eventuate, maybe Mark should take all the picks in the top 55 or so picks, then after that refer to Wrights smokeys? might be the best drafting strategy?

from what i have heard we tried trading back in to get our 3rd player at some stage and our trades were rejected as this draft was a little over-priced, we then took the position of selling our picks to gain picks next season for trade currency which was smart, but i felt that we could have traded back in around pick 50-55 to guarantee a 3rd quality player instead of Morris, which i would have thought was the best option, but its done now and is history, Jeka as a rookie is a gamble, which is what rookies are for, but again there were other talents i would have liked us to gamble on instead.

That is my fear and if he's even half as good as those 3 blokes we'll be spewing we didn't take him with pick 13.

 

[Brant]

That is my fear and if he's even half as good as those 3 blokes we'll be spewing we didn't take him with pick 13.

I was hoping (& posting) like Hell that we'd get Kemp, but I'm really happy that we got Day.

 

[Davo-27]

Sorry Davo-27. I think that is all wrong.

Finn's problem was not inconsistency. His problem was he never could reach a truly elite level.

In the TAC he was only ever elite at the ball drop and with his hands, but even then his decision making let him down with his hands at times. And being the first choice option for the ruck tap was his primary role. He wasn't expected to tackle.

He didn't have elite run. Nor speed. Nor disposal. Nor marking.

If Finn tracks his form at AFL level, he comes out like a Liam Shiels. That is fulfilling his full potential. That is fantastic.

Comparisons with Kennedy are lotto ticket stuff. Not impossible. We live in hope.

that is my fear that he doesnt end up a productive midfielder, there were games where he struggled to get free of the tackle and get into the game, Ryan Byrnes was better at working around the contest and gaining momentum for Sandringham and i thought he would get frustrated at Finn not being able to consistently get free, his good games gave an indication he could turn into a tall power mid which we lack atm so if he works out he could be good for us.

all year i have said he lacked speed and run ect, then he comes out and blitzes the combine, he needs to add that speed and endurance he showed at the combine in game more often, i agree.

his hands in the contest are his strength, getting a handball out during a tackle, one grab footy, his marking is pretty good for a mid, his goal kicking is pretty good when he gets forward, his disposal when not under pressure is solid, under pressure his disposal is a bit rushed and he averages 20 disposals as a player who plays inside mid almost exclusively.

pros - good hands, speed from combine testing, endurance from combine testing, strength in the contest, height, goal kicking ability, handball while being tackled, solid marking

cons - accumulation, adding his athletic traits into games, decision making under pressure

if he can increase his running game on-field more efficiently and average more disposals he has the scope to improve his value and potentially be a good player for us, Finn also seems to have strong belief in himself and seems determined which is a good sign, playing mostly first option from the ruck tap might not be his go, as he has good athletic traits he maybe could play a slightly more outside position, so instead of the mid that gets the ruck taps he could be the 2nd or 3rd option to find a bit more space which would help his disposal and i doubt he plays that role ahead of Tom Mitchell or Worpel anyways, he was forced to play that role as Sand had smaller and skinnier players and he had to sacrifice his game a little to do the heavy lifting on the inside.

 

[tige19]

Sorry Davo-27. I think that is all wrong.

Finn's problem was not inconsistency. His problem was he never could reach a truly elite level.

In the TAC he was only ever elite at the ball drop and with his hands, but even then his decision making let him down with his hands at times. And being the first choice option for the ruck tap was his primary role. He wasn't expected to tackle.

He didn't have elite run. Nor speed. Nor disposal. Nor marking.

If Finn tracks his form at AFL level, he comes out like a Liam Shiels. That is fulfilling his full potential. That is fantastic.

Comparisons with Kennedy are lotto ticket stuff. Not impossible. We live in hope.

Absolute rubbish, total and utter bullshit.. I was given the heads up by a VIC M coach that Finn would be coming into the squad, that same coach who is highly respected and has been involved in multiple AFL premierships was taken aback by his improvement as a footballer. If I wanted to be really "absolute" in this I would post his exact txts, both from the start of the season where he was ho-hum about him to the end of the season where he was as bullish about Finn as any-other mid in VIC outside of Rowell and Anderson.

A kid who is 190cm, has one of the best tanks to come out of the draft, has the ability to hit the scoreboard and ranks in the 98th percentile for speed is someone who has all the traits to be a very good AFL footballer.

You mention his kicking as an issue, well Worpel had the same question marks planted on him... I can tell you now that Finns disposal by foot is better than Worpels as a junior, and given he steps into an elite environment that is known to develop players I think can give us all confidence he will improve.

For a comparison of the 2 in their final year in the NAB (just to show how inept your opinion is) we can see the similarities in output.

Worpel - 14.8k, 6.6h (21.4d), 2.3m, 6.8t, 0.8 goals per game
Finn - 9.2k, 11.6h (20.8d), 2.9m, 5.6t, 0.9 goals per game

Worpel also averaged 5.12 clearances a game in comparisons to Finns 4.77 which shows how close comparatively their performances were.

 

[VandoHawk]

Finn’s combine testing showed he has an untapped athletic side to his game. I never thought he was particularly quick or an endurance runner yet his testing suggests he is both. If we can develop this side of his game he can be a 190cm inside contested ball winner with the tools outside wingmen dream of. Super promising prospect if he can reach the next level.

 

[TylerDurden]

Finn’s combine testing showed he has an untapped athletic side to his game. I never thought he was particularly quick or an endurance runner yet his testing suggests he is both. If we can develop this side of his game he can be a 190cm inside contested ball winner with the tools outside wingmen dream of. Super promising prospect if he can reach the next level.

This. He was the king of the combine.

Massive untapped potential here. My mail is he'll play JLT. If he nails it, then who knows.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Maginness a potential star? He wasn't a star at TAC Cup level.

There are huge question marks over Finn making it at all (as there are over most picks outside the top 10)

I think Jeka and Morris have as much chance of being a star as Finn.

What are the huge question marks?

He was one of the best midfielders in the TAC Cup, and put in some dominant displays. He can play as a big bullocking midfielder (which takes time to translate to AFL level), is a strong mark and can also go forward and kick goals. He was rated a first round prospect by practically every scout and recruiter.

He's got the frame and height to develop into a big bodied midfielder, but also has the speed and endurance (per his draft camp results) that suggests that he could be a rare athlete for a midfielder. I'm in no way saying he will become as good as Danger, who is an all-time great, but I'm hoping he can develop into a midfielder of a similar hulking size (or like JPK) with that burst of speed.

All in all it seems to me that he has everything to work with bar elite disposal, which is something he should be able to improve anyway (like Worpel has) through his time with us.

 

[KermitJagger]

What are the huge question marks?

He was one of the best midfielders in the TAC Cup, and put in some dominant displays. He can play as a big bullocking midfielder (which takes time to translate to AFL level), is a strong mark and can also go forward and kick goals. He was rated a first round prospect by practically every scout and recruiter.

He's got the frame and height to develop into a big bodied midfielder, but also has the speed and endurance (per his draft camp results) that suggests that he could be a rare athlete for a midfielder. I'm in no way saying he will become as good as Danger, who is an all-time great, but I'm hoping he can develop into a midfielder of a similar hulking size (or like JPK) with that burst of speed.

All in all it seems to me that he has everything to work with bar elite disposal, which is something he should be able to improve anyway (like Worpel has) through his time with us.

I'd argue his disposal genuinely isn't that bad. The real weakness he has is accumulation, and it's the only one that stands out to any level. Give him time with Sammy to learn that, and his numerous physical tools will make him a good player despite average accumulation.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Sorry Davo-27. I think that is all wrong.

Finn's problem was not inconsistency. His problem was he never could reach a truly elite level.

In the TAC he was only ever elite at the ball drop and with his hands, but even then his decision making let him down with his hands at times. And being the first choice option for the ruck tap was his primary role. He wasn't expected to tackle.

He didn't have elite run. Nor speed. Nor disposal. Nor marking.

If Finn tracks his form at AFL level, he comes out like a Liam Shiels. That is fulfilling his full potential. That is fantastic.

Comparisons with Kennedy are lotto ticket stuff. Not impossible. We live in hope.

That's just completely wrong as was proven with his combine results. The reason why you may not have noticed much in those regards is because he was playing as an inside mid so he didn't necessarily need to utilise those skills in the structure that he was played in the NAB League

 

[atlas1]

My mail is he'll play JLT.

Damn, was hoping to see him in JLT