List Mgmt. Graeme Wrights Recruiting (Analysing HFC recruiting from 2011-present)

[TheFourPillars]

You guys are arguing over nothing at this stage of his career its all about preparation to play at the highest level. the past counts for nothing. Finn is athletically gifted and has done everything in pre season thus far barring injury he will have given himself the best chance to take the field in 2020 from there we can see where he is at

 

[TylerDurden]

Damn, was hoping to see him in JLT

Boom tish.

 

[Sixpence]

If Finn is doing everything at training, as FourPs says above, then that suggests that there isn't huge questions marks on him at all. In fact, it suggests the opposite. Sounds like he's being chucked in the deep end, which the club would only do if they were very confident of him making it as a player.

Also, pining over Kemp is pointless. Given how far he slid, clubs clearly didn't view him as the next Bont/Cripps/Fyfe, including the club he eventually went to who traded their pick rather than select him (and only grabbed him when he was cheaper). Admittedly, at the time I was quite surprised we overlooked him and more particularly, Robertson, but with more info since then, I'm perfectly happy with Day.

 

[Dewnior]

Also, pining over Kemp is pointless. Given how far he slid, clubs clearly didn't view him as the next Bont/Cripps/Fyfe

Clubs didn't rate Fyfe or Cripps in the top 10 either.

Fyfe went at 20, Cripps at 13. Kemp at 17.

 

[tige19]

I'd argue his disposal genuinely isn't that bad. The real weakness he has is accumulation, and it's the only one that stands out to any level. Give him time with Sammy to learn that, and his numerous physical tools will make him a good player despite average accumulation.

How good is our development? In comparison to Worpel, Finn wins the ball as much in the NAB as Worps did and now Worps is a genuine 25+ possession mid in the AFL...

 

[tige19]

Clubs didn't rate Fyfe or Cripps in the top 10 either.

Fyfe went at 20, Cripps at 13. Kemp at 17.

I have little doubt Kemp will be an excellent AFL footballer, once he gets fit and builds a tank he will be extremely difficult to stop.

 

[Sixpence]

Clubs didn't rate Fyfe or Cripps in the top 10 either.

Fyfe went at 20, Cripps at 13. Kemp at 17.

Nor did anyone claim they were going to be the next <insert great player of similar build>. Not saying Kemp won't be a great player, just that there's no point in having FOMO over it. He's no more or less likely to be a star than Day or say Cooper Stephens.

 

[Beandip]

It seems odd that people are knocking Finn's disposal.... but then talking about JPK and Dangerfield who in 2019 went at ~67% (~370th in the league). For the record Worpel went at 66% (420th).

Disposal efficiency isn't as important if your job is to rip it out of the contest and feed it off to a cleaner outside player - any club would take JPK/Dangerfield etc., despite <70% DE.... the value you put on their other assets mitigates.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Clubs didn't rate Fyfe or Cripps in the top 10 either.

Fyfe went at 20, Cripps at 13. Kemp at 17.

They also weren't coming off an ACL injury. Not many players that do an ACL either return to their past best or reach their potential.

 

[tige19]

It seems odd that people are knocking Finn's disposal.... but then talking about JPK and Dangerfield who in 2019 went at ~67% (~370th in the league). For the record Worpel went at 66% (420th).

Disposal efficiency isn't as important if your job is to rip it out of the contest and feed it off to a cleaner outside player - any club would take JPK/Dangerfield etc., despite <70% DE.... the value you put on their other assets mitigates.

I point out JOM's DE often, but I find it the most frustrating part of his game, for a mid DE% is bloody important.

 

[Gralin]

I point out JOM's DE often, but I find it the most frustrating part of his game, for a mid DE% is bloody important.

The raw number isn't worth that much. Bad disposal isn't all that makes it go down and good disposal isn't all that makes it go up.

Like anything context matters. Miss a kick with a bloke hanging off you sure

Butcher it 20 in the clear under no pressure bleagh.

Still everyone makes mistakes it's how often, what's the pattern, what's the trend.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

They also weren't coming off an ACL injury. Not many players that do an ACL either return to their past best or reach their potential.

Let's hope that's not the case with Impey as we need him returning to the form he was showing just prior to suffering the ACL.

 

[tige19]

The raw number isn't worth that much. Bad disposal isn't all that makes it go down and good disposal isn't all that makes it go up.

Like anything context matters. Miss a kick with a bloke hanging off you sure

Butcher it 20 in the clear under no pressure bleagh.

Still everyone makes mistakes it's how often, what's the pattern, what's the trend.

He misses plenty of targets by foot, his ball drop is extremely poor. I am not saying he isn't a very good footballer, he certainly is, it's simply his foot skills are poor and that's the reality. JOM is going to play an extremely important part for our club, but he is not the elite top-end mid we had hoped for, more a solid contributor who can aptly support Titch and Worps.

 

[Luv_our_club]

What are the huge question marks?

He was one of the best midfielders in the TAC Cup, and put in some dominant displays. He can play as a big bullocking midfielder (which takes time to translate to AFL level), is a strong mark and can also go forward and kick goals. He was rated a first round prospect by practically every scout and recruiter.

He's got the frame and height to develop into a big bodied midfielder, but also has the speed and endurance (per his draft camp results) that suggests that he could be a rare athlete for a midfielder. I'm in no way saying he will become as good as Danger, who is an all-time great, but I'm hoping he can develop into a midfielder of a similar hulking size (or like JPK) with that burst of speed.

All in all it seems to me that he has everything to work with bar elite disposal, which is something he should be able to improve anyway (like Worpel has) through his time with us.

Finn's dominant displays in the "TAC Cup" were largely due to:

1. Him being more physically developed than most other players
2. His elite hands and ability to move through stoppage

But those performances were full of flaws. Half the time it was a little cringey.

He doesn't have elite run or speed. Not by AFL standards. He is capable in those areas, like Liam Shiels, like Kennedy.

There were reasons why he drifted to pick 30, which was the earliest I would have picked him. I predicted he would go around there.

People shouldn't get me wrong. Finn could blossom and turn out to be a gun. Or he could apply his inside weapons and become a reliable B+ mid. Or he could just fizzle, because of his limitations, against bigger bodies.

My point is that Finn comes into the AFL as an average player for a mid picked in the draft: he doesn't come in as a "potential star".

I would rather he exceed expectations than fail to live up to media hype.

The draft camp results are not the same as game day demonstrations.

 

[Gralin]

He misses plenty of targets by foot, his ball drop is extremely poor. I am not saying he isn't a very good footballer, he certainly is, it's simply his foot skills are poor and that's the reality. JOM is going to play an extremely important part for our club, but he is not the elite top-end mid we had hoped for, more a solid contributor who can aptly support Titch and Worps.

I'm not giving up on him reaching his potential yet.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Absolute rubbish, total and utter bullshit.. I was given the heads up by a VIC M coach that Finn would be coming into the squad, that same coach who is highly respected and has been involved in multiple AFL premierships was taken aback by his improvement as a footballer. If I wanted to be really "absolute" in this I would post his exact txts, both from the start of the season where he was ho-hum about him to the end of the season where he was as bullish about Finn as any-other mid in VIC outside of Rowell and Anderson.

A kid who is 190cm, has one of the best tanks to come out of the draft, has the ability to hit the scoreboard and ranks in the 98th percentile for speed is someone who has all the traits to be a very good AFL footballer.

You mention his kicking as an issue, well Worpel had the same question marks planted on him... I can tell you now that Finns disposal by foot is better than Worpels as a junior, and given he steps into an elite environment that is known to develop players I think can give us all confidence he will improve.

For a comparison of the 2 in their final year in the NAB (just to show how inept your opinion is) we can see the similarities in output.

Worpel - 14.8k, 6.6h (21.4d), 2.3m, 6.8t, 0.8 goals per game
Finn - 9.2k, 11.6h (20.8d), 2.9m, 5.6t, 0.9 goals per game

Worpel also averaged 5.12 clearances a game in comparisons to Finns 4.77 which shows how close comparatively their performances were.

I wish you would actually watch his games. Comment on them.

Stats mean little. As does draft camp. As do insults.

 

[Brant]

I'm not giving up on him reaching his potential yet.

Exactly.
Madness to do so.

 

[Davo-27]

Finn's dominant displays in the "TAC Cup" were largely due to:

1. Him being more physically developed than most other players
2. His elite hands and ability to move through stoppage

But those performances were full of flaws. Half the time it was a little cringey.

He doesn't have elite run or speed. Not by AFL standards. He is capable in those areas, like Liam Shiels, like Kennedy.

There were reasons why he drifted to pick 30, which was the earliest I would have picked him. I predicted he would go around there.

People shouldn't get me wrong. Finn could blossom and turn out to be a gun. Or he could apply his inside weapons and become a reliable B+ mid. Or he could just fizzle, because of his limitations, against bigger bodies.

My point is that Finn comes into the AFL as an average player for a mid picked in the draft: he doesn't come in as a "potential star".

I would rather he exceed expectations than fail to live up to media hype.

The draft camp results are not the same as game day demonstrations.

i just have a loose definition of star, a B+ mid like JOM would be a star in my eyes, i think if he averages around 25 disp and does some of the tough stuff in midfield he showcased at u18's i think he will be a really good player, potential star can be subjective, i think Smith, Breust and Stratton are stars and yet others would say they are really good players, its all subjective i guess.

 

[Sixpence]

He doesn't have elite run or speed. Not by AFL standards. He is capable in those areas, like Liam Shiels, like Kennedy.

At the combine, he finished second in the 2km time trial (by a second and better than previous record) and sixth in the 20m sprint. That's elite run and speed for an 18 year old! He's never going to have elite run compared to say Brad Hill or Isaac Smith, but he's not a winger so doesn't need to. I really can't understand your knock on his speed and endurance?

 

[tige19]

I wish you would actually watch his games. Comment on them.

Stats mean little. As does draft camp. As do insults.

Watched him 7 times in total last year, thanks.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

At the combine, he finished second in the 2km time trial (by a second and better than previous record) and sixth in the 20m sprint. That's elite run and speed for an 18 year old! He's never going to have elite run compared to say Brad Hill or Isaac Smith, but he's not a winger so doesn't need to. I really can't understand your knock on his speed and endurance?

And if he fills out then he won't need true top end 'elite' pace. He just needs to have enough of a burst that can allow him to get some separation, or tear out of packs.

Add that to his (potential) size and elite hands and you have a great base to develop from.

 

[tige19]

At the combine, he finished second in the 2km time trial (by a second and better than previous record) and sixth in the 20m sprint. That's elite run and speed for an 18 year old! He's never going to have elite run compared to say Brad Hill or Isaac Smith, but he's not a winger so doesn't need to. I really can't understand your knock on his speed and endurance?

Absolutely bizarre this dudes summation of Finns obvious traits, I mean let's not let facts get in the way of agendas

 

[KermitJagger]

I wish you would actually watch his games. Comment on them.

Stats mean little. As does draft camp. As do insults.

I watched a couple, including most of his games in the U18 champs. His outstanding game in the last round of the national champs had little to do with his size considering he was matched up on Greene who is both taller and heavier.

I get the feeling maybe you're a little bit disingenuous with your comments as though you followed him closely. I doubt you did any more than anyone else.

 

[Sixpence]

Absolutely bizarre this dudes summation of Finns obvious traits, I mean let's not let facts get in the way of agendas

Apparently the "eye test" is more legitimate than recorded measurements. Go figure.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Apparently the "eye test" is more legitimate than recorded measurements. Go figure.

What does Ben Stratton have to do with this thread?