Rod Butterss appointed Grant Thomas senior coach in the first place. If he is now admitting that it was a mistake it's a disgrace that it took sooo long for him to rectify the situation. IMO he should go with Grant.
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Grant Thomas no longer saints coach
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Rodgerramjet said:
Yes. Thomas has done, over the last three years, what any other coach would have done with the Saints - have his team legitimately contending for the flag.
Even this year with all ther injuries, they missed the top 4 by percentage. They won the same amount of games as the probable eventual premier(Sydney.)
The problem is that people think that premierships grow on trees, and that St.Kilda should be winning flags. These people are unaware there are 4-5 contenders every year and only one of those contenders can win it. The fact that St.Kilda is one of those contenders each year (well, for the last three years) is a testament to Thomas and the off field stabliity of the club. They were on the right track, they had stability, and they had three years of being a legitimate contender.
Who knows what's in store now? It's the Alves and Sheldon sackings (both after good years) all over again, and where did those sackings leave the club?
Just a disgraceful decision. Don't the boards of these football clubs realise that stability is the most imortant thing? Look at all the great teams in history and they have stable environments. Butterss just "had" to get involved didn't he? Jesus.
And now they sack the coach, without any real justification, just beause they "think" he is not the man to lead them to a premiership, despite two close Preliminary Final losses (and an injury riddled 14 wins, missing the top-4 by percentage) indicating otherwise.
Svenny said:He coached the Saints in 123 games, including the past three finals series, for 63 wins, 59 losses and one draw
50% coaching isnt good enough.....especially with that list
Totally irrelevant. He took over the reigning wooden spoon team, half way through 2001 and they finished 4-18, after Watson resigned.
They won 5 games the next year in 2002, then 11-11 in 2003 as the young players started to take hold.
Then three successive finals appearance follows.
Having a go at Thomas for not having a 50% record totally ignores the circumstances he faced in his first three years. His list at that time was garbage.
- Banned
- #254
Having had time to mull over this I think its a clear decision by the SK board that they are rebuilding.
With up to 8 delistings/retirements and definitely 4 it is time for a new coach to teach a new team
With up to 8 delistings/retirements and definitely 4 it is time for a new coach to teach a new team
Dan26 said:
how can you say totally irrelevant...winning is what its about yeah he took over a lower team....with a heap of draft picls at his disposal.....as a recruiter he did well....as a coach he did very poorly
the year he took over (like his first full year) he had a side that was good...his record since that point was 50%.....thats not good enough.....with that list of players.....
Svenny said:
The side he took over in his first full year was good? LOL.
2002, is the year you are talking about. Riewoldt and Kosi were only one year players, both were 19 year olds. Ball made his debut that year. He was 18.
The next year, with the addition of Goddard saw team win 11 games, and then the three successive finals appearances followed.
The team that Thomas stared with was absolute crap, and even with the good draftees (and let's face it, Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball and Goddard is only 10% of their list) they were STILL crap because those draftees were too young to have an impact.
They eventually started to have an impact and Grant Thomas was able to coach his club to the Preliminary Final two years running, and get very close both times (leading a 3-quarter time in both.)
Who knows what would have happened this year if not for the injuries?
To suggest he had a good list in his first full year is drivel. He had a list with some potentially great 18 year olds. St.Kilda's list in the early 2000's was crap.
- Apr 27, 2002
- 16,226
- 13,298
- AFL Club
- Port Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Edmonton Oilers, Newcastle
Apparently the Saints, not content to have an annual captain-rotation policy, are now going to rotate the coach every year too.
The Fireman said:Pagan is your greatest coach
He has been involved in twice as many premierships as the St Kilda Football Club
That is simplistic logic. There is a great deal of difference between losing a PF and winning a GF. List management, match day tactics, player motivation, individual and team instruction and a host of factors within the coach’s control influence results and when the pointy end of the season comes around and you lose you must examine why. I’m dirty on my club for not doing this and continuing on with premiership, losing deficiencies. Saints have at least decided not to stay the non premiership winning course and there were further away than Collingwood.Dan26 said:
- Banned
- #260
MarkT do you believe ( as I do ) that there are coaches who can win flags and those who cant?MarkT said:
I believe there are only a limited number of coaches who have that ''it'' that will win them flags. I also see good ''development'' coaches who will always rebuild a list for someone else to take over.
GT was to me a development coach yet Mick Malthouse is a proven flag coach and maybe thats why MM has a little bit longer.
juddy_Like
Norm Smith Medallist
ALmost enough is simply not good enough. End of Story.
JeffDunne
TheBrownDog
So why has your coach still got a job?juddy_Like said:
Yes in so far as some are good enough and some aren’t. It is hard to assess in reality. Tom Hafey won 4 at Richmond and lost 4 at Collingwood. Leigh Mathews you would have to say is a flag coach. At Collingwood he inherited the remnants of Hafeys flag losing squad including Daicos and Shaw as well as the cream of the under 19 premiership squad and a group that came through together including Brown, Monkhurst, Crosisca, McGuane. He certainly moulded the team into a premiership wining one. Post 1990 though he ran the list down something terrible. At Brisbane he inherited a list supplemented by the draft, Fitzroy and zone priorities as well as a salary cap allowance but he sure as hell got results. What a lot of people don’t realise though is that LM coached Collingwood for a decade and won 0 finals in 9 of those 10 years.PerthCrow said:
Malthouse inherited the startup assistance benefits and to his credit took them to 2 flags. I'd be interested to know from long time eagles fans what moves he ever made to pull games out of the fire or what he did that made him a good coach. IMO he got results wuth a very good squad. That might put him ahead of GT or it might not. He'd be worth a punt for St. Kilda IMO.
And is now doing the complete opposite at your rabbleBarry Zuckercorn QC said:He has been involved in twice as many premierships as the St Kilda Football Club
MarkT said:
The emotions of winning the GF and losing a PF may be poles apart, but the pure, simple facts are there is only one win between a PF and GF, and Thomas had St.Kilda in two Preliminary Finals, leading both a three-quarter time. That very same team that lost those Prelim, could have quite eaisly made both Grand Finals with a slice of luck.
MarkT said:
You mean continue with what has been the norm in 109 of the 100 years they have been in the comp? Not winning premierships. Same with Collingwood in 96 of their 110 seasons. Every club fails far more often than they win.
Just because St.Kilda didn't win the premiership under Thomas didn't mean he wasn't the right man. Are you one of those gullible fools that think premierships grow on trees and 5 flags are awarded every year to the "five clubs that deserve a flag."
You don't go and sack a coach after having made the finals three years in a row. This year they missed the top-4 on percentage, winning as many games as Sydney with twice the injury problems. Are St.Kilda friggin stupid?
I'm yet to hear a genuine, REAL reason why he was sacked, the closest "reason" being his autocratic style. I keep on hearing the same old crap, as if they are inventing reason, using "not winning the flag" as justification, despite the Saints legitimately contending three years in a row.
Disgraceful decision by a board that can't help themselves and just had to get involved. It's the Stan Alves situation all over again. Just when the club is getting it right, they lose the stability and sack the coach. Idiots.
- Banned
- #266
Dan26 said:
stop trying to talk to svenny, it'll only hurt your head.
I seriously think they should put Pagan in charge, he'd be just right.
not so good without cattle, but appears a seriously good leader of a mature list.
pagan at Carlton is like Blight at St Kilda, wrong people for the wrong jobs. But as the list develops, then it's time to them in charge.
Some coaches are turnaround specialists, others are finishers.
they need a finisher now.
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