GWS Adult membership costs $185 for 8 games.

[WagonBang]

Is that the same Newcastle Jets that is owned by a near bankrupt that can't sell the team because it's a financial basketcase?

Yeah, great strategy that was.

It's not that he can't sell it. It's the fact FFA are playing the hard ball the same way the screwed over the North Queensland Fury. Group of business men wanted to buy it FFA knocked it back and it folded. The man who owns Dundee United in Scotland was interested but FFA again as well as Tinkler are at war with each other and the buyer is no longer interested.
You need to learn how private ownership works cause the club hasn't made him bankrupt. It's his business and horses!

"You are lucky if 3k out the 8k in attendance are home fans in the two games I've been too."

Did you count them?

Go for a walk around Ya stadium next home game. And see how many people are really in Giants colours.

 

[Colonial]

You have missed the mark completely. My argument has nothing to do with on field success. It's off field. You GWS fans seem to be obsess that Wanderers won the league (not the championship/grand final that went to Gosford).

You have expensive memberships and expensive gate tickets (purchased at gate not online so no booking fee). I have been to Showgrounds twice to watch Richmond play and twice to a Swans away match at SCG and ANZ and to see Melb Victory play Wanderers at Parramatta and Syd Fc at SFS.... all trips in last 3 seasons. The most expensive of all these trips was GWS. $30 for a GA ticket. Compared to $21 at WSW for a reserved seat on wing, $25 for Swans and Syd FC in away bays.

You are lucky if 3k out the 8k in attendance are home fans in the two games I've been too. There seems to be a lack of community ingagment towards the west. Just watch the movements on the trains after the match most head back towards East/City after a Giants match.

Instead of the rubbish "20 year plan" that once we win they'll come. Go get the fans. Make it a club for the fans and members, created by the fans and members like WSW. Hold fan forums. Make the fans choose pre game entertainment instead of all the endless advertising and Millisa Doyal constantly on big screen declaring she's the number 1 ticket holder. Something as small as putting the clubs instergram feed on big screen. Kids love selfies and seeing them. Cause right now the current modle isn't working.

Newcastle Jets (yes a basket case now and fans are boycoting) lowered there membership prices 4 seasons ago to around $100 for 13 games. They got 12k members each season and crowds averaging 14k. A club that hasn't played finals since winning the Championship in 2008.

People won't pay top dollar for a sub standard product.

Well thats 2 mins of reading i wont get back.

Complete garbage and lies. Every word

 

[Colonial]

I
Go for a walk around Ya stadium next home game. And see how many people are really in Giants colours.

I do. Every game. And you are wrong. And probably trolling.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It's not that he can't sell it. It's the fact FFA are playing the hard ball the same way the screwed over the North Queensland Fury. Group of business men wanted to buy it FFA knocked it back and it folded. The man who owns Dundee United in Scotland was interested but FFA again as well as Tinkler are at war with each other and the buyer is no longer interested.
You need to learn how private ownership works cause the club hasn't made him bankrupt. It's his business and horses!


Go for a walk around Ya stadium next home game. And see how many people are really in Giants colours.

For the games I went to last year, it was a pretty decent giants crowd. Major difference I noticed (compared to Tiggers games back in Melbourne) was lots of families

 

[clogged]

Ticket comes with 2 free guest passes, making it effectively a 10-game ticket, and $18.50 per general admission. That's without the free train travel, NAB Cup and other add-ins.

You don't get free train travel.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

It's not that he can't sell it. It's the fact FFA are playing the hard ball the same way the screwed over the North Queensland Fury. Group of business men wanted to buy it FFA knocked it back and it folded. The man who owns Dundee United in Scotland was interested but FFA again as well as Tinkler are at war with each other and the buyer is no longer interested.
You need to learn how private ownership works cause the club hasn't made him bankrupt. It's his business and horses!

and thats got stuff all to do with it. the teams losing money and losing business off the back of cutting prices.
This is the point: slashing prices dramatically is not sustainable, not even in a league owned by billionaires.

near zero of the A-league's teams make money even with the enforced shoe string budgets and fully subsidised salary caps.
its a not sustainable long term without a sugar daddy wanting a new play thing and its a terrible model for converting fans.

WSW works because it is smack bang in the middle of an area full of people from backgrounds that love soccer as a sport, they haven't converted anyone its soccers heartland in this country.

so far actual expansion into non heartland areas has seen no long term success.
the knights folded. the rovers folded. the fury folded.
and the gold and central coast teams are in dire straits.
the only clubs doing any good are those in inner city areas and thats down to demographics.

the A-league is a terrible business model for any AFL club that doesn't have someone like the pratt's hand feeding it. Barely any clubs in the A-league could cover a $10 million dollar salary cap let alone the other operating costs associated with running an AFl club, most can't turn a profit on the $2 million dollar salary cap they have.

 

[fabulousphil]

WSW works because it is smack bang in the middle of an area full of people from backgrounds that love soccer as a sport, they haven't converted anyone its soccers heartland in this country.
.

Amid all the crap this is actually the real case.

 

[Colonial]

and the gold and central coast teams are in dire straits..

Very dire. Gc haven't existed in 3 years.

 

[Rob]

It's not that he can't sell it. It's the fact FFA are playing the hard ball the same way the screwed over the North Queensland Fury. Group of business men wanted to buy it FFA knocked it back and it folded. The man who owns Dundee United in Scotland was interested but FFA again as well as Tinkler are at war with each other and the buyer is no longer interested.
You need to learn how private ownership works cause the club hasn't made him bankrupt. It's his business and horses!
.

I never said it did. But because the club is inherently unviable its future will always be suspect. They are not some sort of model for GWS to follow.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

You don't get free train travel.

Yes we do.

Didn't last year - will this year.

 

[Albert Ross]

WSW works because it is smack bang in the middle of an area full of people from backgrounds that love soccer as a sport, they haven't converted anyone its soccers heartland in this country.

I am a bit dubious about the whole 'convert supporters' model. The A-League crowds and AFL expansion team crowds are pretty much the same in Year 1, as Year 5 as Year 10. Even a team like the Storm. Basically what you have on Day 1 is pretty much what you are going to get with very small changes and a couple of exceptions (Melbourne Victory).

 

[Colonial]

I am a bit dubious about the whole 'convert supporters' model. The A-League crowds and AFL expansion team crowds are pretty much the same in Year 1, as Year 5 as Year 10. Even a team like the Storm. Basically what you have on Day 1 is pretty much what you are going to get with very small changes and a couple of exceptions (Melbourne Victory).

We havent had a year 5. Let alone a year 10.

 

[Albert Ross]

We havent had a year 5. Let alone a year 10.

A-League crowds pretty much the same on Day 1 as today; Victory hit their number in year 2.

http://www.aleaguestats.com/ALeagueStats_1CrowdStats.html#AverageCrowds

Gold Coast home attendance going to settle somewhere around that year 1 number of about 19k

2014 16092
2013 13907
2012 13645
2011 19169

GWS number going to be about 10k

2014 9226
2013 9701
2012 10824

Even an NRL team like Canberra averaged 10.825 to home games in their first season in 1982, and got 9,608 last year. North Queensland had 2 good seasons to begin, then their 3rd season (1997) 17,539 and is now about 15k.

Melbourne Storm got 12,716 in their first year (1998) and now get 14,894 in their 17th ... that despite a new stadium. 2000 new supporters in 17 years.

NRL, AFL, A-League ... the crowd you are getting in year 1 is pretty much what you are going to get in year 10.

I don't think we 'convert' anyone, we simply tap into whatever market is there and that effect is achieved in years 1-3.

 

[Colonial]

A-League crowds pretty much the same on Day 1 as today; Victory hit their number in year 2.

http://www.aleaguestats.com/ALeagueStats_1CrowdStats.html#AverageCrowds

Gold Coast home attendance going to settle somewhere around that year 1 number of about 19k

2014 16092
2013 13907
2012 13645
2011 19169

GWS number going to be about 10k

2014 9226
2013 9701
2012 10824

Even an NRL team like Canberra averaged 10.825 to home games in their first season in 1982, and got 9,608 last year. North Queensland had 2 good seasons to begin, then their 3rd season (1997) 17,539 and is now about 15k.

Melbourne Storm got 12,716 in their first year (1998) and now get 14,894 in their 17th ... that despite a new stadium. 2000 new supporters in 17 years.

NRL, AFL, A-League ... the crowd you are getting in year 1 is pretty much what you are going to get in year 10.

I don't think we 'convert' anyone, we simply tap into whatever market is there and that effect is achieved in years 1-3.

Swans started with less than us. Now have the largest base in sydney.
Just to add junior figures are up 70% since we showed up. Since our fans are mostly young families there is allot of growth there

 

[Albert Ross]

Swans started with less than us. Now have the largest base in sydney.
Just to add junior figures are up 70% since we showed up. Since our fans are mostly young families there is allot of growth there

Swans started with 12k, and stayed there for 10 years.

 

[Gigantor]

It's interesting to note that the behemoth which is meant to be the Wanderers attracted ratings of 39k on the weekend, and that was in a grand final replay involving the most successful club in recent years.

That's right, a ratings number that was not even double the attendance the Wanderers had got the previous weekend.

Should the Giants ever make a grand final, it is my bold prediction that the grand final replay the following season would attract ratings far, far in excess of 39k.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

I am a bit dubious about the whole 'convert supporters' model. The A-League crowds and AFL expansion team crowds are pretty much the same in Year 1, as Year 5 as Year 10. Even a team like the Storm. Basically what you have on Day 1 is pretty much what you are going to get with very small changes and a couple of exceptions (Melbourne Victory).

if that were true we'd still playing in front of 3,000 people.

the gold coast is a unique beast due to its transient population. people are constantly moving and leaving so you really can't compare it to any of the major citys its a tourist spot it has its own advantages and disadvantages, namely attracting new supporters as a significant portion of the population are only there temporarily.

 

[fabulousphil]

Swans started with less than us. Now have the largest base in sydney.
Just to add junior figures are up 70% since we showed up. Since our fans are mostly young families there is allot of growth there

As a % of membership GWS would have the highest amount of junior members, so you are probably correct on that score.

In fact GWS have more junior members than both WCE and Freo, indicating 2 things IMO,

1) The value of memberships in WA and the need for a 3rd team.

and

2) That GWS is a work in progress and there is a positive future.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

As a % of membership GWS would have the highest amount of junior members, so you are probably correct on that score.

In fact GWS have more junior members than both WCE and Freo, indicating 2 things IMO,

1) The value of memberships in WA and the need for a 3rd team.

and

2) That GWS is a work in progress and there is a positive future.

Yep. In twenty years time all those junior members will be full adult members and they in turn will be bringing their kids along. That's why it's always been a twenty year plan. Some people have very unrealistic expectations as to how long it's going to take - lots of people calling us an utter failure after only 2 years. Way too soon. Football support is a generational thing.


Oh, and to add even more value to our membership - not only do we get free access to the Easter show (family ticket $114 - $39.50 per adult, $24 per child individually) on three separate days, but we also get free access to the last day of the Golden Slipper carnival (about $20) at Rosehill.

So the $185 is looking pretty good value when you take the added on extras into account.

I go to the show three times and the races once and my 8 Sydney game membership costs me just over $40. What other club offers anything close to that?

 

[fabulousphil]

A-League crowds pretty much the same on Day 1 as today; Victory hit their number in year 2.

http://www.aleaguestats.com/ALeagueStats_1CrowdStats.html#AverageCrowds

Gold Coast home attendance going to settle somewhere around that year 1 number of about 19k

2014 16092
2013 13907
2012 13645
2011 19169

GWS number going to be about 10k

2014 9226
2013 9701
2012 10824

Even an NRL team like Canberra averaged 10.825 to home games in their first season in 1982, and got 9,608 last year. North Queensland had 2 good seasons to begin, then their 3rd season (1997) 17,539 and is now about 15k.

Melbourne Storm got 12,716 in their first year (1998) and now get 14,894 in their 17th ... that despite a new stadium. 2000 new supporters in 17 years.

NRL, AFL, A-League ... the crowd you are getting in year 1 is pretty much what you are going to get in year 10.

I don't think we 'convert' anyone, we simply tap into whatever market is there and that effect is achieved in years 1-3.

I think you can find figures for every occasion.

In 1921 Collingwood averaged 15400 ( H)

In 2010 Collingwood averaged 63200 (H)

The Eagles first 3 years home average crowds were all below 25k

The Dockers were as well.

I think success, community engagement, the actual game and whether it is actually any good to watch and play has plenty to do with building crowds, more than just 3 year averages.

 

[fabulousphil]

Yep. In twenty years time all those junior members will be full adult members and they in turn will be bringing their kids along. That's why it's always been a twenty year plan. Some people have very unrealistic expectations as to how long it's going to take - lots of people calling us an utter failure after only 2 years. Way too soon. Football support is a generational thing.


Oh, and to add even more value to our membership - not only do we get free access to the Easter show (family ticket $114 - $39.50 per adult, $24 per child individually) on three separate days, but we also get free access to the last day of the Golden Slipper carnival (about $20) at Rosehill.

So the $185 is looking pretty good value when you take the added on extras into account.

I go to the show three times and the races once and my 8 Sydney game membership costs me just over $40. What other club offers anything close to that?

I would agree that support is generational, although i have to admit that a 20 year plan seems like a hell of a long term plan that may in reality change many times.

But given the AFL's track record of seeing things through and getting what it wants, i would imagine they will give them every chance.

That membership and link with the show seems like a bloody good deal, prices for entry to the shows are just ridiculous.

 

[telsor]

its not that simple, victorian AFL ticket prices are an outlier due to the sheer number of clubs competing for the same 2 grounds. if they tried that low a price anywhere else the clubs wouldn't make money. see port adelaide situation where they can't make money on tickets that cheap, but the fans are so used to cheap tickets they wont raise the prices.

We also have the AFL reserving the best bit of the ground and selling it's own memberships. Bit hard to put the prices up when it means the league will be offering cheaper/better seats.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

We also have the AFL reserving the best bit of the ground and selling it's own memberships. Bit hard to put the prices up when it means the league will be offering cheaper/better seats.

I would discount having 9 clubs share two grounds either. certainly keeps costs down, despite any etihad deal.

 

[telsor]

I would discount having 9 clubs share two grounds either. certainly keeps costs down, despite any etihad deal.

Paying a lower cost doesn't mean much when you're restricted from charging enough to make a decent profit on it. Remember the % returns at Etihad & MCG were clearly the worst (this was pre AO, but that's still in flux really).

 

[Albert Ross]

if that were true we'd still playing in front of 3,000 people.

the gold coast is a unique beast due to its transient population. people are constantly moving and leaving so you really can't compare it to any of the major citys its a tourist spot it has its own advantages and disadvantages, namely attracting new supporters as a significant portion of the population are only there temporarily.

Swans first year saw home crowds of 15,992. Second year the crowds settled at 12,015 and stayed at about that number for 10 years. In 1994 you got 9814. So between years 2 and 10 there was 2,000 variance between seasons. It was only 95-97 when the crowds shot up to 35,818 and that is pretty much where they are now 10 years later.

I think you can find figures for every occasion.
The Eagles first 3 years home average crowds were all below 25k

The Dockers were as well.

I think success, community engagement, the actual game and whether it is actually any good to watch and play has plenty to do with building crowds, more than just 3 year averages.

I would argue there is a difference between tapping into an existing audience for the code, effectively shifting people from watching WAFL to watching AFL. Expanding a sport into a new territory with minimal support has seen very little crowd growth. Certainly in any year on year basis.

I would agree that support is generational, although i have to admit that a 20 year plan seems like a hell of a long term plan that may in reality change many times.

But given the AFL's track record of seeing things through and getting what it wants, i would imagine they will give them every chance.

That membership and link with the show seems like a bloody good deal, prices for entry to the shows are just ridiculous.

And this is probably where we agree. Any growth in crowd is generational. The 10k people who attend the first game have been fairly hungry for a team for a while, they keep coming back. After that a team probably only adds a couple of hundred new 'converts' a year. It is only 10-20 years down the track that you tend to see any crowd growth in those new/cpnvert markets.