GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[Sammoll]

I didn't grow up with it. Completely new to it.

I'm not even two years into this sport and it stings.

I have a lot of catching up to do.

We've all been there. It won't feel like it for now, but the way I see it is that results from this year's finals will just add to the club's character and folklore. In years to come you'll look back on them and any potential successes will taste even sweeter.

 

[Giant YoYo]

Corn Cobbers what's so funny?

 

[Giant YoYo]

We've all been there. It won't feel like it for now, but the way I see it is that results from this year's finals will just add to the club's character and folklore. In years to come you'll look back on them and any potential successes will taste even sweeter.

Thanks mate.

I got behind the blues last year cause you had a run similar to us and then this year went to the Carlton v PA game this year cheering you guys on.

Really appreciate the support.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Corn Cobbers what's so funny?

Let's just say I know your pain

It's a cruel sport

 

[Giant YoYo]

Let's just say I know your pain

It's a cruel sport

My Pies mate introduced me to this sport/game.

Wish he told me about this part.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

My Pies mate introduced me to this sport/game.

Wish he told me about this part.

Blowing a 44 point lead in a final is pretty rare, only happened 3 times in 125 years, your mate still should have addressed that though

 

[LionsOrDieTrion]

If you’re a Giants supporter over 22 years old and aren’t new to the game then I don’t trust you as a human being. I can respect Giants fans who have never supported another club though.

 

[Giant YoYo]

If you’re a Giants supporter over 22 years old and aren’t new to the game then I don’t trust you as a human being. I can respect Giants fans who have never supported another club though.

I'm in my 30s and never had any interest in any club or sport.

Lived in Sydney all my life, including eastern Sydney and Western Sydney...

Never supported any club.

 

[sherb]

in one way yes, in one way it's part of the problem.
When interest is supposedly at it's peak the SMH chooses to display how poorly AFL is doing and how ell NRL is doing.
This indeed may be factual, but the media in Sydney are a overwhelming part of the problem.
The SMH low-lighted two statements - generational change and GWS are the equivalent to many NRL sides.

The article did bring up one new point and that was the effect of the cost-of-living.

The article is highlighting how AFL is struggling in the west - not struggling overall in Sydney. And I for one am glad the article has been published, because junior football has really fallen away out here. You may well point the finger at the media, and I'm no fan of them either (trust me), but what is happening out here has to be brought to peoples' attention, rather than having have those people fall for the AFL spin.

Instead of having our own competition out this way, we now have clubs that have folded, with other clubs having to join forces to field sides in junior competitions that span far and wide geographically. Eg as one example, the Mountain Lions Under 17 side, to the best of my knowledge, is a joint effort between three junior clubs, playing sides as far away as Glebe, Cronulla and Heathcote.

The Penrith Giants are the longest running junior club out here - they were formed circa 1980 - and were the sole club until the formation of the (then) GWFA in 2000. Have a look at the teams they fielded this year, no boys teams in their own right past Under 12 (there is an U13 Youth Girls team):

AFL Sydney Juniors 2024 teams for Penrith GIANTS Junio | PlayHQ

View Penrith GIANTS Junior AFL Club's teams in the AFL Sydney Juniors AFL Sydney Juniors 2024 season

www.playhq.com

One of the many downsides of this situation is, of course, travel (as I previously implied). Instead of having to travel locally to play, the kids parents have to cart them all over the place. Why would parents have the kids playing AFL when playing soccer and RL, for instance, involves relatively minimal travel?

By the way, I wonder if the cost of living is affecting junior participation in other sports out this way? Eg RL and soccer. I somehow doubt it - happy to be corrected though. It sounds like a poor excuse to me.

As to the actual reasons for what has happened, well the Giants haphazard approach to the GWS area would be one. Travel, as things fell away, would be another. And, also as things fall away, so do volunteers. The effect is compounding.

The AFL (here in Sydney) would be another reason - having been involved in Sydney footy for a long time, I can tell you that Western Sydney has long been low on their list of priorities - senior or junior. As long as junior footy is going well in their favoured areas, bolstering the figures to an overall satisfactory level, they would be happy. (I saw Jude Bolton talking before the Swans-Giants game and he said something about how well junior football was going in Sydney - you could tell he's swallowed the AFL PR).

This line in the article was interesting - "Requests for official numbers from the AFL were not forthcoming." Poor wording, but I'm assuming it is saying that the SMH's requests to the AFL for junior numbers in Sydney's west weren't responded to. If true - well, funny that.

As for the AFL itself - I laughed when I saw who they quoted there by the way - Rob Auld - one of the conga line of AFL employees who have helped stuff local Tasmanian football. Zero confidence in that bloke to rectify any problems soon.

Of course, the AFL has periodically gotten serious about the game out in the west - see the formation of the GWFA for instance. But they have since sat back and watched as what was once that promising outer western based junior comp deteriorate to the current situation. So, as a result, they now have to pick up the pieces and rebuild. We'll see how serious they (and the Giants for that matter) are about doing that over the next few years. I'm not filled with confidence.

 

[Giant YoYo]

The AFL (here in Sydney) would be another reason - having been involved in Sydney footy for a long time, I can tell you that Western Sydney has long been low on their list of priorities

This much is clear. I've long held concerns that the lean has been towards Eastern Sydney, it's kind of obvious if you follow the AFL pages. It's incredibly disheartening.

I live in what could be described as Giants heartland. The amount of Giants I see/speak to in my area on a walk by far exceeds any other club of any code.

We don't have a footy team or field. I am yet to see anything they're doing to support or harness this fanbase for growth.

 

[Cmarsh]

The article is highlighting how AFL is struggling in the west - not struggling overall in Sydney. And I for one am glad the article has been published, because junior football has really fallen away out here. You may well point the finger at the media, and I'm no fan of them either (trust me), but what is happening out here has to be brought to peoples' attention, rather than having have those people fall for the AFL spin.

Instead of having our own competition out this way, we now have clubs that have folded, with other clubs having to join forces to field sides in junior competitions that span far and wide geographically. Eg as one example, the Mountain Lions Under 17 side, to the best of my knowledge, is a joint effort between three junior clubs, playing sides as far away as Glebe, Cronulla and Heathcote.

The Penrith Giants are the longest running junior club out here - they were formed circa 1980 - and were the sole club until the formation of the (then) GWFA in 2000. Have a look at the teams they fielded this year, no boys teams in their own right past Under 12 (there is an U13 Youth Girls team):

AFL Sydney Juniors 2024 teams for Penrith GIANTS Junio | PlayHQ

View Penrith GIANTS Junior AFL Club's teams in the AFL Sydney Juniors AFL Sydney Juniors 2024 season

www.playhq.com

One of the many downsides of this situation is, of course, travel (as I previously implied). Instead of having to travel locally to play, the kids parents have to cart them all over the place. Why would parents have the kids playing AFL when playing soccer and RL, for instance, involves relatively minimal travel?

By the way, I wonder if the cost of living is affecting junior participation in other sports out this way? Eg RL and soccer. I somehow doubt it - happy to be corrected though. It sounds like a poor excuse to me.

As to the actual reasons for what has happened, well the Giants haphazard approach to the GWS area would be one. Travel, as things fell away, would be another. And, also as things fall away, so do volunteers. The effect is compounding.

The AFL (here in Sydney) would be another reason - having been involved in Sydney footy for a long time, I can tell you that Western Sydney has long been low on their list of priorities - senior or junior. As long as junior footy is going well in their favoured areas, bolstering the figures to an overall satisfactory level, they would be happy. (I saw Jude Bolton talking before the Swans-Giants game and he said something about how well junior football was going in Sydney - you could tell he's swallowed the AFL PR).

This line in the article was interesting - "Requests for official numbers from the AFL were not forthcoming." Poor wording, but I'm assuming it is saying that the SMH's requests to the AFL for junior numbers in Sydney's west weren't responded to. If true - well, funny that.

As for the AFL itself - I laughed when I saw who they quoted there by the way - Rob Auld - one of the conga line of AFL employees who have helped stuff local Tasmanian football. Zero confidence in that bloke to rectify any problems soon.

Of course, the AFL has periodically gotten serious about the game out in the west - see the formation of the GWFA for instance. But they have since sat back and watched as what was once that promising outer western based junior comp deteriorate to the current situation. So, as a result, they now have to pick up the pieces and rebuild. We'll see how serious they (and the Giants for that matter) are about doing that over the next few years. I'm not filled with confidence.

So what in your view needs to change to turn things around to get grassroors footy on it's feet in Western Sydney?

 

[RedV3x]

Heartbreaking loss tonight for GWS but the future is bright. They're gonna be just fine. Keep fighting the good fight Giants fans.

It was heart-breaking with all the goals to the Lions coming from insipid free kicks to bridge the gap.
It was like the umpire was on a roll at one stage.
Yes, it was a great comeback but the team with the best chance against Geelong was the Giants.
Now it's a mere formality.

 

[RedV3x]

So what in your view needs to change to turn things around to get grassroors footy on it's feet in Western Sydney?

Yes, it's no use bitching if you haven't anything constructive to say.
I can tell you what "needs to change" but not what can be changed.

 

[sherb]

This much is clear. I've long held concerns that the lean has been towards Eastern Sydney, it's kind of obvious if you follow the AFL pages. It's incredibly disheartening.

I live in what could be described as Giants heartland. The amount of Giants I see/speak to in my area on a walk by far exceeds any other club of any code.

We don't have a footy team or field. I am yet to see anything they're doing to support or harness this fanbase for growth.

Not just Eastern Sydney, also the inner city, the North Shore, even the Hills.......basically the more well to do, trendy areas with a longer, more entrenched history in the game. The west is the poor cousin of Sydney footy, has been for a long time.

But having said that, many of the senior clubs in the GWS area are now well established - and would all be at least 40 years old. Off the top of my head, Camden, Hawkesbury, Penrith, Parra, SWS Blues (the old Liverpool/SW Sydney and Campbelltown combined). Only exception would be the Blacktown side (Western Magic). So there is now enough presence and history out this way to warrant far more respect and attention you would hope.

Where do you live out of interest? Even the general area if you don't want to be specific.

 

[Bjo187]

Not just Eastern Sydney, also the inner city, the North Shore, even the Hills.......basically the more well to do, trendy areas with a longer, more entrenched history in the game. The west is the poor cousin of Sydney footy, has been for a long time.

But having said that, many of the senior clubs in the GWS area are now well established - and would all be at least 40 years old. Off the top of my head, Camden, Hawkesbury, Penrith, Parra, SWS Blues (the old Liverpool/SW Sydney and Campbelltown combined). Only exception would be the Blacktown side (Western Magic). So there is now enough presence and history out this way to warrant far more respect and attention you would hope.

Where do you live out of interest? Even the general area if you don't want to be specific.

Have you ever contacted the club or AFL with your ideas on how to improve grassroots in western sydney? They are pretty receptive, it's worth a try. Also you can survive without good grassroots, look at storm, they don't have any Vic players in their existence pretty much. It is preferable though, as participation results in fans if a kid plays for 3 years or more.

 

[RedV3x]

The west is the poor cousin of Sydney footy, has been for a long time.

11 clubs contested the opening season of the NSWFL in 1903 (including: East Sydney FC, Ashfield Electorate FC, North Shore FC, North Sydney FC, South Sydney FC, YMCA FC, Paddington FC, Redfern FC, West Sydney FC, Newtown FC, Sydney FC and Balmain FC),[2] with East Sydney taking out the first premiership with a 6-point win over North Shore.

The SMH reported football under the heading "Football" with NSWFL and Western Districts (rugby union)

 

[Giant YoYo]

Not just Eastern Sydney, also the inner city, the North Shore, even the Hills.......basically the more well to do, trendy areas with a longer, more entrenched history in the game. The west is the poor cousin of Sydney footy, has been for a long time.

I have noticed that and it's incredibly frustrating. Even as a relative new comer onto the scene, you cannot unsee it once you notice it.

My suburb is pretty much at the foothill of the Hills and crossing Old Windsor Road, the difference is quite stark even if it is very close. You get a bit of cross over because we are so close to the Hills but it's definitely not seen anywhere near as trendy.

But having said that, many of the senior clubs in the GWS area are now well established - and would all be at least 40 years old. Off the top of my head, Camden, Hawkesbury, Penrith, Parra, SWS Blues (the old Liverpool/SW Sydney and Campbelltown combined). Only exception would be the Blacktown side (Western Magic). So there is now enough presence and history out this way to warrant far more respect and attention you would hope.

Totally agree. Admire what these clubs have done. I did a small donation to one of those mentioned above to support. Will look at doing the same to another club nearby. They all came in before the Giants, too. So the interest was there as they've been around for some time.

I think what would be telling is whether they install goal posts at Old Kings Oval in Parramatta. If they can somehow get that over the line, I think would be quite pivotal.

Having a strong presence in Parramatta is crucial, IMO. Similar to how the Swans/footy has such a strong presence in the inner city.

Looking at maps it seems the middle part of the metropolitan region has a gap of footy clubs overall, given Parramatta's central location, if it could have a strong presence there then build outward to tie together the other footy clubs north, west and south of it. Possibly having a club east of it at some stage which at the moment doesn't have anything till you get closer to the inner west. Happy to be corrected, though.

 

[sherb]

So what in your view needs to change to turn things around to get grassroors footy on it's feet in Western Sydney?

The AFL needs to recognize there is a problem for a start. Assuming they have, they need to really start listening to the junior clubs out here, to see what they think needs to change and be done. I doubt if they have done that, from personal experience they don't have a history of listening to people on the ground.

One telling line in the article was this -
"This masthead sought assessments on the health of the game from representatives of several grassroots clubs in western Sydney, some of whom requested anonymity in exchange for frankness, in order to protect relationships." I mean, fancy having to speak anonymously - it's not hard to work out who they are afraid of upsetting and possibly getting repercussions from.

Change isn't going to come from ground up out here, one because it isn't an AFL area and two because the volunteers on the ground are extremely limited. Accordingly, the AFL is going to have to drive the change. And it can work, the local junior competition was looking quite promising a decade or so ago, so there is no reason it can't be the same again. You had clubs at Hawkesbury, Penrith, Emu Plains, Blue Mountains, St Clair and even possibly Blacktown (not 100% sure about that). You could in theory run a 6 team competition quite nicely, at least based on that previously displayed potentia.

Anyway, what can be done? The AFL directly helped build the GWFA 25 or so years ago, so they can do the same to rebuild. That will take AFL resources, to help with recruitment (volunteer/player), publicity, fundraising, etc until the struggling/extinct clubs are either re-established or back on their feet.

I'm not aware of how much work the AFL is doing in the schools, but whatever they are doing clearly needs to be increased. Again, that takes resources.

And, of course, wrt this thread, the Giants need to stop walking away from the GWS area and, instead, get serious about claiming it as their own. Get their presence back in the area, via games, via promotions, via functions, via player appearances. The initial idea of the Giants was to be a Western Sydney side, to help grow the game out here - yet for some reason they seem to slowly moving away from that. You are not going to maximise local kids' interest by playing at Henson Park and Canberra.

I mean today, for instance, you have the situation where the Giants womens' side is playing a home game at Manuka while Blacktown ISP facility is hosting the Sydney AFL finals series. Why not play the game at BISP, and have a couple of the local womens' finals played as curtain raisers? A great opportunity to promote the club in the west. Looking at the Giants draw overall, it's Manuka, Manuka, Henson, Henson, Henson - nothing there screams Greater Western Sydney at all.

Anyway, it comes down as to how serious the AFL is about wanting to grow the game in the west. If they are, they will need to put in the resources and also get the Giants management to rethink their current strategy.

 

[sherb]

11 clubs contested the opening season of the NSWFL in 1903 (including: East Sydney FC, Ashfield Electorate FC, North Shore FC, North Sydney FC, South Sydney FC, YMCA FC, Paddington FC, Redfern FC, West Sydney FC, Newtown FC, Sydney FC and Balmain FC),[2] with East Sydney taking out the first premiership with a 6-point win over North Shore.

The SMH reported football under the heading "Football" with NSWFL and Western Districts (rugby union)

I'm not sure of your point, I'm fully aware of the history of the Sydney AFL competition.

 

[RedV3x]

I'm not sure of your point, I'm fully aware of the history of the Sydney AFL competition.

"The west is the poor cousin of Sydney footy, has been for a long time."

 

[RedV3x]

they need to really start listening to the junior clubs out here, to see what they think needs to change and be done.

Maybe people could also look at the other side and gleen why the Eastern Suburbs is booming with a club like Randwick created from scratch to one of the biggest clubs around. Maybe the AFL thought they could use the same template.

Anyhow, for analysis.

1. Onfield success has been more consistent and prolonged for the Swans. IMO there was a disappointing lack of Sydney-siders at Engie Stadium. We don't want the situation like WCE where they are against the Dockers. We want a S.O.O. like experience. We wanted a Swans VS Giants G.F.
2. The Giants have a long way to go in wearing down the anti-AFL media.
3. The SCG is icon for the surrounding suburbs and the development of AFL.
4. How much do council decisions influence development with grounds, availability, lighting and promotion.
5. The big wet seemed to be a huge influence in junior football and football in general.
6. Building a smart new rectangular stadium out West was a great promotion for the rectangular codes
and yet another kick in guts for the Australian game.
7. The Swans have the name "Sydney" and Sydney to Sydney-siders is syn ominous with "Australia".
whilst the Giants have 8/11 the exposure with an area-code as a name.
8. In the beginning much was made of the ethnic connection being made in GWS - has that dwindled or was there a adverse reaction ?
9. i don't know what the AFL is doing at grassroots but I hope isn't like some places overseas.
In the U.S.A. for example much energy lost by people waiting for the shining knight in AFL coming along.
Contrast with it's neighbour Canada that has produced participation results or AFCs in France that have connected with townships and garnered support.
10. The good news is that Western Sydney is indeed the hardest nut to crack so GWS is doing OK.

 

[sherb]

"The west is the poor cousin of Sydney footy, has been for a long time."

So you interpreted "has been for a long time" as "has been for the entire history of the current Sydney AFL competition"?

Seriously? You are taking the p*** right?

 

[RedV3x]

So you interpreted "has been for a long time" as "has been for the history of current Sydney AFL competition"?

No, the history of the NSWFL.

Seriously?

Sorry to back up what "has been for a long time".

 

[sherb]

No, the history of the NSWFL.



Sorry to back up what "has been for a long time".

The current Sydney AFL competition started out as the NSWFL in 1903. It has been the one continuous competition ever since, operating under several different names, not even stopping during the war years.

By "has been for a long time" I obviously meant a period of time that was limited by how long Australian Rules football has actually been played competitively in the west. I even made it easier for anyone reading by outlining how long footy has been around out this way (which has been periods up to 50 years for every current club, although the old Southern Districts club dates back further).

 

[RedV3x]

I obviously meant

obviously.