GWS is the AFL's biggest problem - not North, GC, or Tassie

[PhatBoy]

I have to laugh at how much positive media the storm get compared to the giants when they're:

• One team in a city of 7 million in that sport
• finished top again and couldn't sellout their qualification final, despite there being no afl on in the whole of Melbourne that weekend
• their ratings were very poor for that game too
• their membership is the same as the giants
• they've been around double the time of the giants
• their average crowds are only 6k higher than the giants
• They have only produced one Victorian player in their history, the giants have produced about 5 from western sydney

This off the back of the storm being the most successful club in the sport playing in a gf on average every 3 years and winning multiple premierships, the giants only playing in 1 he with no flags.

It just shows the difference when you have news corp and sen constantly pumping you up and doing the opposite for the giants, that the perception doesn't match the reality when you look at the actual numbers.

Also Sydney Olympic park will have a brand new train line from the cbd going directly to it and a tram line direct from Parramatta going directly to it in the next few years, which will make the precinct very appealing and help with crowds.

You kind of answered your own question.

The storm don’t have anything local to draw on. There is, not a big one, but an existent and in some areas (the Riverina mainly and Canberra if we are counting it as NSW) a rich history of Australian Rules football in NSW. Plus the swans have been embedded there for twice as long as the Storm.

There is no history of league in Victoria. That they build the sides they do minus one of the pathways that every other club has, is an amazing effort.

 

[Bjo187]

Who cares?

Rugby league has been around in its current form, more or less, for 116 years and the crowds have been, more or less, the same. Why the hell do you think a few extra decades will change that?

It is what it is. League fans don’t care. I follow both sports equally and couldn’t have a shit one way or the other. League gets more tv viewership, afl gets way bigger crowds. That second part is never going to change.

I like the Giants, I hope they do well and while I have huge respect for the swans if I had a choice I would always support the Giants.

This is absolutely wrong. Stop pedaling this false narrative. Head to head the afl beats the nrl by over 300k every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. AFL games overlap, nrl never do, rugby league has 3 games in prime time Thursday and Friday, compared to one or sometimes 2 for AFL. I'll give you the example from last night, which doesn't even include foxtel which would increase the lead even more.

I couldn't care less about nrl crowds, I'm pointing out the crap the giants cop in the same market with 10x the disadvantages and intentional negative media attention.

 

[PhatBoy]

This is absolutely wrong. Stop pedaling this false narrative. Head to head the afl beats the nrl by over 300k every Thursday, Friday and Saturday night. AFL games overlap, nrl never do, rugby league has 3 games in prime time Thursday and Friday, compared to one or sometimes 2 for AFL. I'll give you the example from last night, which doesn't even include foxtel which would increase the lead even more.

I couldn't care less about nrl crowds, I'm pointing out the crap the giants cop in the same market with 10x the disadvantages and intentional negative media attention.

View attachment 2116820

So. Tell them to stop scheduling games at the same time.

 

[Bjo187]

So. Tell them to stop scheduling games at the same time.

I don't agree with it, but like the grand final, they won't change it until they start losing the tv ratings battle, which they aren't, despite what Peter v'landy's and all the leagiues tell you (after using their secret herbs and spices mix to come out with a win).

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't agree with it, but like the grand final, they won't change it until they start losing the tv ratings battle, which they aren't, despite what Peter v'landy's and all the leagiues tell you (after using their secret herbs and spices mix to come out with a win).

Either way, who cares. It’s not costing the nrl any money. What does it matter. Bragging rights in a kindergarten big d**k contest??

Im not going to suddenly start spending more time watching one over the other because there’s bigger crowds at the afl or there’s higher ratings in one or the other

 

[Bjo187]

Either way, who cares. It’s not costing the nrl any money. What does it matter. Bragging rights in a kindergarten big d**k contest??

Im not going to suddenly start spending more time watching one over the other because there’s bigger crowds at the afl or there’s higher ratings in one or the other

Well the reality of the matter does cost them money, it's why the afl gets 1/3rd more for their tv rights, or over 200 mill a year more from next year. In the meantime, all the NRL fans can't figure out why, coz like yourself, they've believed the lie from the nrl and Sydney media that 'they get more tv viewers' and have been pedaling it online for years.

It matters because it feeds into the negative perception of the giants and effects the respect they recieve and potential growth they get in a tough market. If it doesn't matter, why do you think they bother misleading the public on this stuff?

 

[PhatBoy]

Well the reality of the matter does cost them money, it's why the afl gets 1/3rd more for their tv rights, or over 200 mill a year more from next year. In the meantime, all the NRL fans can't figure out why, coz like yourself, they've believed the lie from the nrl and Sydney media that 'they get more tv viewers' and have been pedaling it online for years.

It matters because it feeds into the negative perception of the giants and effects the respect they recieve and potential growth they get in a tough market. If it doesn't matter, why do you think they bother misleading the public on this stuff?

One of the primary reasons, honestly, is simply what I mentioned above: yes of course there are some business interests involved but half of it is simply being able to pump up what you’re doing. Gordon Tallis doesn’t care what’s making more money. He’s a meathead who likes being able to brag about the game he played who still thinks of afl as aerial ping pong.

If the giants are relying on spin to get attendees to games they are doing it wrong. A flag for starters would make a huge difference. They do have fans where I live I know that

 

[Cmarsh]

That’s not unexpected, though. Cronulla are arguably the least supported Sydney team playing a side from 3000km away. They wanted to play in Cronulla where the capacity is just 13,000 and ended up with nearly 20,000.

Interstate side from thousands of kms away Vs side not getting to play at their home ground. Sounds similar circumstances to tonight's AFL prelim.

 

[PhatBoy]

Interstate side from thousands of kms away Vs side not getting to play at their home ground. Sounds similar circumstances to tonight's AFL prelim.

What’s your point? Did you suddenly expect a low drawing team in a sport that consistently draws crowds around 20k to pull a similar crowd to a reasonable drawing team in a sport that draws the 4th or 5th highest average crowds on the planet?

 

[Cmarsh]

What’s your point? Did you suddenly expect a low drawing team in a sport that consistently draws crowds around 20k to pull a similar crowd to a reasonable drawing team in a sport that draws the 4th or 5th highest average crowds on the planet?

Both sporting leagues are based in the same country. It's not as far out as a comparison as you are making it out to be.

 

[PhatBoy]

Both sporting leagues are based in the same country. It's not as far out as a comparison as you are making it out to be.

Yes but for a century one of them has boasted one metric and the other has boasted one far higher.

It’s almost too easy to make the comparisons.

Look at, for example, the two ‘working class’ clubs, the Bulldogs in the AFL and the Magpies when they existed, in the NRL.
Go back 50 years and the Dogs crowds at the Western Oval, a small venue, for a poorly (relatively) supported club, generally hovered between about 12,000 and 25,000.
The magpies rarely broke 10,000 at Lidcombe Oval.
Even moving into the early 1990s when they were at the bigger and better Campbelltown Stardium and fielded a competitive team it was still rare for them to break 10k.

That’s a comparison at the bottom of the barrel for supporter base and ground size and naturally it grows exponentially from there.

None of the suburban grounds in the NRL have a capacity beyond 20k and even in the days before they started to limit that, the biggest crowds they could sardine-squeeze in were about 23k.

So they have always been limited even if there was a time in the past where attendances may have grown (and there probably wasn’t), they wouldn’t have. And unsurprisingly the teams who’s crowds DID outstrip that were Souths and the Roosters who played a lot of footy at the SCG before the Sydney Football Stadium existed - but even they (the roosters: Souths had moved to Redfern later on) had dropped off later on the century before the Sydney Footy Stadium was built.


The things they have directly in common for the comparison is that they are in the same country and that they are both based with half their teams in one city.

AFL always has and always will have a significantly higher crowd pull, it’s the nature of the game and the tribal religious following it has. League has its nutcases who will follow it anywhere but not ever going to reach those levels albeit the crowds are growing steadily

 

[Bjo187]

Yes but for a century one of them has boasted one metric and the other has boasted one far higher.

It’s almost too easy to make the comparisons.

Look at, for example, the two ‘working class’ clubs, the Bulldogs in the AFL and the Magpies when they existed, in the NRL.
Go back 50 years and the Dogs crowds at the Western Oval, a small venue, for a poorly (relatively) supported club, generally hovered between about 12,000 and 25,000.
The magpies rarely broke 10,000 at Lidcombe Oval.
Even moving into the early 1990s when they were at the bigger and better Campbelltown Stardium and fielded a competitive team it was still rare for them to break 10k.

That’s a comparison at the bottom of the barrel for supporter base and ground size and naturally it grows exponentially from there.

None of the suburban grounds in the NRL have a capacity beyond 20k and even in the days before they started to limit that, the biggest crowds they could sardine-squeeze in were about 23k.

So they have always been limited even if there was a time in the past where attendances may have grown (and there probably wasn’t), they wouldn’t have. And unsurprisingly the teams who’s crowds DID outstrip that were Souths and the Roosters who played a lot of footy at the SCG before the Sydney Football Stadium existed - but even they (the roosters: Souths had moved to Redfern later on) had dropped off later on the century before the Sydney Footy Stadium was built.


The things they have directly in common for the comparison is that they are in the same country and that they are both based with half their teams in one city.

AFL always has and always will have a significantly higher crowd pull, it’s the nature of the game and the tribal religious following it has. League has its nutcases who will follow it anywhere but not ever going to reach those levels albeit the crowds are growing steadily

You're very much on the defence for some reason mate, you definitely love your nrl, that's fine. However, this is a sport that's own management takes digs at the afl and fans pump it up to be number one in the country. 'Australia's biggest sport' plastered all across America remember? Even you brought into the b.s with your 'biggest tv sport' claim. Yet their figures are often garbage and they fling shit at an 11 year old club constantly.

If you're gonna do that, at least be accountable when your 60 plus year old club is getting tiny crowds, the great storm are doing poorly off field despite the spin and be open to being held accountable.

The whole point is, why do the giants cop crap, when Sydney nrl clubs are doing similarly? I don't think there is any reason for that, other than an inherent biased. Or do you not believe there is a campaign up there to belittle and suppress the giants potential growth? The hit peices were flowing thick and fast last week in the Sydney media when the giants were getting some positive attention, you obviously don't read the local media.

 

[PhatBoy]

You're very much on the defence for some reason mate, you definitely love your nrl, that's fine. However, this is a sport that's own management takes digs at the afl and fans pump it up to be number one in the country. 'Australia's biggest sport' plastered all across America remember? Even you brought into the b.s with your 'biggest tv sport' claim. Yet their figures are often garbage and they fling shit at an 11 year old club constantly.

If you're gonna do that, at least be accountable when your 60 plus year old club is getting tiny crowds, the great storm are doing poorly off field despite the spin and be open to being held accountable.

The whole point is, why do the giants cop crap, when Sydney nrl clubs are doing similarly? I don't think there is any reason for that, other than an inherent biased. Or do you not believe there is a campaign up there to belittle and suppress the giants potential growth? The hit peices were flowing thick and fast last week in the Sydney media when the giants were getting some positive attention, you obviously don't read the local media.

It’s not about being defensive it’s simply pointing to this idea of ‘haha hey look at this crowd compared to ours’ - it’s the nature of the two games and has been for a century and people are making out like it’s just been this huge discovery and that one game is ailing badly while the other is prospering like never before when in reality league’s actual attendance figures are as high as they’ve been in my lifetime and possibly ever (I’m not sure about the latter part of that statement but I’m certain about the former having checked the figures recently)


I don’t think there’s any campaign to stifle the Giants growth at all realistically. For one I’m not a conspiracy theorist so I’ll never buy into that anyway.

Of course rugby league wants to protect its territory and not ‘lose’ fans from its own game I wouldn’t deny that but remember Fox has a significant stake in the AFL not as an owner but as a beneficiary of it, hence having its own channel and some of the most in depth coverage you can imagine. It’s only going to ‘deliberately’ paint certain pictures up to a point.

At any rate if the cats didn’t exist I’d get on their wagon.

 

[RedV3x]

Has it lost badly to soccer?

Severely - in the participation stakes.

Not sure what triggered your emotions

I don't like false statements.
But i don't get emotional and start swearing and abusing people like you
just because you get called out as a troll.

 

[RedV3x]

Qld fans are probably parochial enough to do that.

And THAT was exactly my point. Where were the Qujeenslanders ?

NSW fans aren’t.

That goes without saying, but you said it anyway.

 

[PhatBoy]

Severely - in the participation stakes.



I don't like false statements.
But i don't get emotional and start swearing and abusing people like you
just because you get called out as a troll.

I don’t get emotional and start swearing. I just swear.

Soccer has long been in front of rugby league. That has not changed and will never change

One is the most brutal contact sport in the world. In what modern social spectrum is it ever going to outdo soccer for participation

That’s like boasting that tennis has more participants than boxing.

And I’m sorry but accusing someone of being a troll because the happen to approach an issue from a different point of view is pathetic. Take a leaf from the person a was actually having a proper discussion with instead of being so offended that someone can have a measured opinion on two football codes

 

[PhatBoy]

And THAT was exactly my point. Where were the Qujeenslanders ?



That goes without saying, but you said it anyway.

Qld fans are parochial but they still don’t travel. It’s not like they turn up to Sydney SOO games

 

[RedV3x]

I idea of ‘haha hey look at this crowd compared to ours’

Is indeed a reaction to decades of overt attack.

I don’t think there’s any campaign to stifle the Giants growth

Just AFL generally.

Of course rugby league wants to protect its territory

This is the the crux of the problem.
THE NRL and it's followers think they must "protect their territory".
There are only people and people should be free to choose from what's available.
Of course the world is filled with traditional areas of support for various sports
but putting aside climatic, economic factors and incumbent inertia the sporting mix could be vastly different.