News Hardwick Gets Extended Contract to 2016

["The Roar Is Back"]

Unlike Frawley and TW Hardwick has taken a list that was a rabble and turned it into arguably the best list the club has had in the last 30 years. Not only that but his determination to stick to the plan he presented to the board before being hired had been a big part of bringing the new stability to the club. The playing list knows where it stands, the off field staff know what they need to do to address any areas of concern regarding the ongoing success of the list/club.

As for not winning a final in 4 years, that's a bit harsh given he has only had 1 chance to do so. I agree though if in 3 years time he still hasn't won a final despite plenty of opportunities then we can question whether he deserves to keep going. But right now IMO this was the best move the club could make as it removes any chance of off field distractions getting in the way of us making the 8 next year.

I have no doubt our list has improved nor that it a catastrophe would have to occur for him to be sacked before the 2016 end of contract .
However out list improvement has predominately been on the back of mature age recruiting whom all are of similar age . Not unthinkable that there is only 3 players in the best 22 who have joined the club , since Dimmas arrival , as an 18 year old and all are mids .
No issue till the mature agers start to retire or who's form start to mirror the form they had at their previous club .

 

[DrMike]

Great, very happy with this.

- Stops any questions or supporter comments around his contract when/if we lose, the coach is not getting sacked because we lost a game.
- Stops any other clubs from chasing Dimma next year.
- Has provided year on year improvement at the club, while there's no guarantee the same will happen this year he's done enough to show his coaching will be needed for the next 3 years, stability is core during this period and obviously sets the timeframe for sustained success in this group.
- There's no one better out there, considering other clubs have taken 1 of our assistant coaches and were going after another, pickings are limited. Also shows that something is going right at Tigerland.

This is what I find stupid. How many clubs have a new coach come in with instant success, and I'm talking Premierships here since that's what most people want. It doesn't happen, a club doesn't get "taken to the next level" under a new coach, it takes time and by then you lose the players that were going to take you there under the coach you just sacked. Hardwick has provided consistent improvement on the player group, he got the club to finals, it's not like he's consistently had the club fall in the 9-18 bracket like Wallace or an example (from another club) more recently in Watters. The board knows what they're doing here and aren't going to be swayed by historical emotions, well done guys.

I have no doubt our list has improved nor that it a catastrophe would have to occur for him to be sacked before the 2016 end of contract .
However out list improvement has predominately been on the back of mature age recruiting whom all are of similar age . Not unthinkable that there is only 3 players in the best 22 who have joined the club , since Dimmas arrival , as an 18 year old and all are mids .
No issue till the mature agers start to retire or who's form start to mirror the form they had at their previous club .

That's more an indication that we no longer require our draft picks to come in and play straight away, it's a good place to be as they can spend 2-3 years developing properly like they should be.

 

[sante]

Great, very happy with this.

- Stops any questions or supporter comments around his contract when/if we lose, the coach is not getting sacked because we lost a game.

But they will bring up the decision to extend him early

This is what I find stupid. How many clubs have a new coach come in with instant success, and I'm talking Premierships here since that's what most people want. It doesn't happen, a club doesn't get "taken to the next level" under a new coach, it takes time and by then you lose the players that were going to take you there under the coach you just sacked. Hardwick has provided consistent improvement on the player group, he got the club to finals, it's not like he's consistently had the club fall in the 9-18 bracket like Wallace or an example (from another club) more recently in Watters. The board knows what they're doing here and aren't going to be swayed by historical emotions

Chris Scott?

But agree, look at Bomber, was at the Cats for 8-10 years, Clarkson has been at Hawthorn for years now, Worsfold at WCE

 

[Mr Magic]

Read more: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...rdwicks-contract/story-fni5f9jb-1226780909437

Very pleased with this move. Rather than have things drag on in what is an important year it's good to get it locked away now and remove any distraction.

Not a stupid move at all


We really need to consolidate and enhance our team development over the next few years to prepare us to explode into contention when we are empowered to do so!

I am not too concerned over our results over the next few years given our list profile. As long as our youth develops our future potential rises and our talent develops into greater performances it is only a matter of time our team will be good enough to emerge into a solid position for sustained success at contention level!

 

[Wallaby]

This is what I find stupid. How many clubs have a new coach come in with instant success, and I'm talking Premierships here since that's what most people want. It doesn't happen, a club doesn't get "taken to the next level" under a new coach, it takes time and by then you lose the players that were going to take you there under the coach you just sacked.

Disagree. Just to look at recent successful coaches.

Malthouse took over Collingwood when they were last - the played GFs in the 3rd and 4th year.
When Roos took over the Swans mid 2002, they had won 3 and lost 8. They played Finals the next year - and every year until they won the flag in 2006 (Roos' 4th full season).
Williams got Port into the Finals in his first year - they finished top in his 4th season.
Clarkson got Hawthorn into the finals in his 3rd year - they won a final, and the flag the next year. They were 15th when he took over.
Worsfold took over the Eagles in 2002 (finished 15th in 2001). They played Finals the next 6 straight years (won flag in 3rd full season).
Lyon got Freo to finals (winning one) in his first year - freo finished 11th the previous year. They made the GF in his second.

Good coaches show up early. Hardwick has had a very slow start. If he dips this year, is he any better than the coaches of North, Port, Essendon, Carlton, Bulldogs - all of whom have played the odd final in the last 4 years on the back of a one-off good season, without ever threatening a flag?

I know you will bring up Mark Thompson - but based on the above, he is the exception (and even then Geelong played finals in his first year, and then had a 3-4 year finals drought, without ever bottoming out). Geelong also benefited by picking up possibly the best midfielder and best defender of the 2000s via F/S.

Good coaches show up early. All hardwick has done so far is shown he's a better coach (with better recruiting and admin) than Richmond have had over the last 10 years.

 

[DrMike]

Disagree. Just to look at recent successful coaches.

Malthouse took over Collingwood when they were last - the played GFs in the 3rd and 4th year.
When Roos took over the Swans mid 2002, they had won 3 and lost 8. They played Finals the next year - and every year until they won the flag in 2006 (Roos' 4th full season).
Williams got Port into the Finals in his first year - they finished top in his 4th season.
Clarkson got Hawthorn into the finals in his 3rd year - they won a final, and the flag the next year. They were 15th when he took over.
Worsfold took over the Eagles in 2002 (finished 15th in 2001). They played Finals the next 6 straight years (won flag in 3rd full season).
Lyon got Freo to finals (winning one) in his first year - freo finished 11th the previous year. They made the GF in his second.

Good coaches show up early. Hardwick has had a very slow start. If he dips this year, is he any better than the coaches of North, Port, Essendon, Carlton, Bulldogs - all of whom have played the odd final in the last 4 years on the back of a one-off good season, without ever threatening a flag?

I know you will bring up Mark Thompson - but based on the above, he is the exception (and even then Geelong played finals in his first year, and then had a 3-4 year finals drought, without ever bottoming out). Geelong also benefited by picking up possibly the best midfielder and best defender of the 2000s via F/S.

Good coaches show up early. All hardwick has done so far is shown he's a better coach (with better recruiting and admin) than Richmond have had over the last 10 years.

Ok now please provide me with turnover statistics. You're comparing these coaches to Hardwick when you should be comparing these coaches to the person that hypothetically replaces Hardwick. We have turned over a shitload of players in order to get where we are, no other club has been through as big a change as we have, and through compromised drafts.

But you proved my point on a coach taking over a list, Malthouse 3 years, Roos 4 years, Williams 5 years, Clarkson 4 years, Worsfold 3 years, Lyon at least 3. We're expecting results within the next 1-3 years under Hardwick, not waiting another 3-6 for the next coach.

Hardwick had next to no list to take over, the club was in debt, facilities poor, no cost of living allowance. I doubt we'll see a situation like this again.

 

[sante]

Disagree. Just to look at recent successful coaches.

Malthouse took over Collingwood when they were last - the played GFs in the 3rd and 4th year.
When Roos took over the Swans mid 2002, they had won 3 and lost 8. They played Finals the next year - and every year until they won the flag in 2006 (Roos' 4th full season).
Williams got Port into the Finals in his first year - they finished top in his 4th season.
Clarkson got Hawthorn into the finals in his 3rd year - they won a final, and the flag the next year. They were 15th when he took over.
Worsfold took over the Eagles in 2002 (finished 15th in 2001). They played Finals the next 6 straight years (won flag in 3rd full season).
Lyon got Freo to finals (winning one) in his first year - freo finished 11th the previous year. They made the GF in his second.

Good coaches show up early. Hardwick has had a very slow start. If he dips this year, is he any better than the coaches of North, Port, Essendon, Carlton, Bulldogs - all of whom have played the odd final in the last 4 years on the back of a one-off good season, without ever threatening a flag?

I know you will bring up Mark Thompson - but based on the above, he is the exception (and even then Geelong played finals in his first year, and then had a 3-4 year finals drought, without ever bottoming out). Geelong also benefited by picking up possibly the best midfielder and best defender of the 2000s via F/S.

Good coaches show up early. All hardwick has done so far is shown he's a better coach (with better recruiting and admin) than Richmond have had over the last 10 years.

Ridiculous. Our club was in the worst possible position a club could be in, none of those scenarios you mentioned compare to what Dimma walked into.

 

[mactier]

Very, very happy with it as things stand. What he's done for this club is immense, and I'll change my mind if, and only if it turns to shit. You have to move with the times as the game is ever changing but for the foreseeable future we have an excellent man at the helm who the board have every confidence in, and I'm happy to back them in.

 

[Grockadoc]

Very, very happy with this. I rate Dimma highly as a coach, and I think the recruitment of Choco really helped him up his game this season.

I know this is an old post, but for those who are still unsure of Dimma:

Season 2013 (Figures rounded):
Difference to 2010 in brackets.

Average Score For: 98 (+20 compared to 2010)
Average Score Against: 80 (-27 compared to 2010)
Score Differential (For - Against): 18 (+47 compared to 2010)
Average Score per win: 108 points. (+8 compared to 2010)
Average Winning Margin: 42 points. (+16 compared to 2010)
Average Score per loss: 76 points. (+6 compared to 2010)
Average Losing Margin: 32 points. (-18 compared to 2010)
Ladder Percentage: 123% (50% compared to 2010)

In four years as head coach, Dimma has made us a 47 point better side scoring wise. When we win, we not only score more, but win by more. When we lose, we score more, but lose by less. He has increased our percentage a MASSIVE 50% since his first season. These are some seriously staggering numbers.


In 2014 if his current rate of improvement continues, this is what season 2014 will look like:

Average Score For: 103 (+25 compared to 2010)
Average Score Against: 73 (-34 compared to 2010)
Score Differential (For - Against): 30 (+59 compared to 2010)
Average Score per win: 110 points. (+10 compared to 2010)
Average Winning Margin: 46 points. (+20 compared to 2010)
Average Score per loss: 75 points. (+7 compared to 2010)
Average Losing Margin: 27 points. (-23 compared to 2010)
Ladder Percentage: 136% (63% compared to 2010)

 

[Infamy]

In 2014 if his current rate of improvement continues, this is what season 2014 will look like:

Average Score For: 103 (+25 compared to 2010)
Average Score Against: 73 (-34 compared to 2010)
Score Differential (For - Against): 30 (+59 compared to 2010)
Average Score per win: 110 points. (+10 compared to 2010)
Average Winning Margin: 46 points. (+20 compared to 2010)
Average Score per loss: 75 points. (+7 compared to 2010)
Average Losing Margin: 27 points. (-23 compared to 2010)
Ladder Percentage: 136% (63% compared to 2010)

Out of curiosity, how do those 2014 numbers compare to recent premier seasons?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

At last the club is looking like a professional organization!
No longer do they think that one man makes all the difference. Yes, the coach is important but his team is far more important.
We have a driven passionate individual who has great people skills - don't underestimate how powerful this combination of qualities are!

 

[Grockadoc]

Out of curiosity, how do those 2014 numbers compare to recent premier seasons?

Well, going by Hawthorn's season this year, I don't think we are all that far away, looking at them.


Hawthorn 2013 (Richmond Projected 2014 averages in brackets):

Average Score For: 115 (103)
Average Score Against: 85 (73)
Score Differential (For - Against): +30 (+30)
Average Score per win: 130 (110)
Average Winning Margin: 38 (46)
Average Score per loss: 75 (75)
Average Losing Margin: 19 (27)
Ladder Percentage: 136% (136%)


If the projections are accurate:

Areas the Hawks are better:

Average Score for: 12 points better.
Average Score per win: 20 points better.
Average Losing margin: 8 points better.


Areas the Tigers are projected to be better:

Average Score against: 12 points better.
Average Winning margin: 8 points better.


Areas projected to break even:

Score differential: +30 each.
Average Score per loss: 75 points each.
Percentage: 136%


All in all, comparing our projected improvement next season to this years Hawks who were as dominant a team as I can remember, we are in VERY good shape.

 

[WATIGE]

Well, going by Hawthorn's season this year, I don't think we are all that far away, looking at them.


Hawthorn 2013 (Richmond Projected 2014 averages in brackets):

Average Score For: 115 (103)
............................

...........................
Average Score per loss: 75 points each.
Percentage: 136%


All in all, comparing our projected improvement next season to this years Hawks who were as dominant a team as I can remember, we are in VERY good shape.

And you can bet that Blair has similar numbers to these as well as all his individual player stats floating around - all saying the same thing - the window is now open.

 

[Grockadoc]

And you can bet that Blair has similar numbers to these as well as all his individual player stats floating around - all saying the same thing - the window is now open.

You'd certainly hope so. Looking at it there should be no excuses (injuries permitting), for our window not to be open from 2014 onwards.

 

[El Tigre]

At last the club is looking like a professional organization!
No longer do they think that one man makes all the difference. Yes, the coach is important but his team is far more important.
We have a driven passionate individual who has great people skills - don't underestimate how powerful this combination of qualities are!

I think your the first to up the point of the "support team". Imagine dropping Hardwick into the tiges 10 years ago. I reckon he would have barely lasted 2 years.
Its more about demanding people to perform a certain level, and being able to get them by leading by example, and most importantly providing them the tools, support and resources to achieve to the highest possible level.
This has been (is) a really good example of how to change a culture at an organisation. A helluva lot of business would be alot better off if they took this model on.
I'd love to be a spy on the wall on some of the discussions behind closed doors. Change of culture can upset people.

 

[theflea]

Not a stupid move at all


We really need to consolidate and enhance our team development over the next few years to prepare us to explode into contention when we are empowered to do so!

I am not too concerned over our results over the next few years given our list profile. As long as our youth develops our future potential rises and our talent develops into greater performances it is only a matter of time our team will be good enough to emerge into a solid position for sustained success at contention level!

Didn't you say maybe we could have waited till next year on the main board?

 

[theflea]

Disagree. Just to look at recent successful coaches.

Malthouse took over Collingwood when they were last - the played GFs in the 3rd and 4th year.
When Roos took over the Swans mid 2002, they had won 3 and lost 8. They played Finals the next year - and every year until they won the flag in 2006 (Roos' 4th full season).
Williams got Port into the Finals in his first year - they finished top in his 4th season.
Clarkson got Hawthorn into the finals in his 3rd year - they won a final, and the flag the next year. They were 15th when he took over.
Worsfold took over the Eagles in 2002 (finished 15th in 2001). They played Finals the next 6 straight years (won flag in 3rd full season).
Lyon got Freo to finals (winning one) in his first year - freo finished 11th the previous year. They made the GF in his second.

Good coaches show up early. Hardwick has had a very slow start. If he dips this year, is he any better than the coaches of North, Port, Essendon, Carlton, Bulldogs - all of whom have played the odd final in the last 4 years on the back of a one-off good season, without ever threatening a flag?

I know you will bring up Mark Thompson - but based on the above, he is the exception (and even then Geelong played finals in his first year, and then had a 3-4 year finals drought, without ever bottoming out). Geelong also benefited by picking up possibly the best midfielder and best defender of the 2000s via F/S.

Good coaches show up early. All hardwick has done so far is shown he's a better coach (with better recruiting and admin) than Richmond have had over the last 10 years.

I would argue that none of those coaches had to work with such a poor list of players.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Great, very happy with this.

- Stops any questions or supporter comments around his contract when/if we lose, the coach is not getting sacked because we lost a game.
- Stops any other clubs from chasing Dimma next year.
- Has provided year on year improvement at the club, while there's no guarantee the same will happen this year he's done enough to show his coaching will be needed for the next 3 years, stability is core during this period and obviously sets the timeframe for sustained success in this group.
- There's no one better out there, considering other clubs have taken 1 of our assistant coaches and were going after another, pickings are limited. Also shows that something is going right at Tigerland.

This is what I find stupid. How many clubs have a new coach come in with instant success, and I'm talking Premierships here since that's what most people want. It doesn't happen, a club doesn't get "taken to the next level" under a new coach, it takes time and by then you lose the players that were going to take you there under the coach you just sacked. Hardwick has provided consistent improvement on the player group, he got the club to finals, it's not like he's consistently had the club fall in the 9-18 bracket like Wallace or an example (from another club) more recently in Watters. The board knows what they're doing here and aren't going to be swayed by historical emotions, well done guys.



That's more an indication that we no longer require our draft picks to come in and play straight away, it's a good place to be as they can spend 2-3 years developing properly like they should be.

Or they ain't up to it or Dimma's crew can't develop players.
By saying this I by no means are suggesting this to be the case , just trying to add some balance to the argument .
You could argue that we have many players upon our list , who joined the club as a 18 year old, had their worst season in 2013 showing they are in fact going backwards.
I believe players from other clubs will make us a 8-4 side , but it is the younger players who as you have stated, have been somewhat protected and given the golden development that will take us beyond 4.
Are Griffiths, Astbury, Elton, Helbig, Arnott, 'Hanlon, Dea showing signs of being capable of taking us from 5-7 to 1-4 , I am not sure.
This year is make or break for many of them and for that reason I'd have preferred the club wait to see if these players who have been developed under Dimma are good enough and Dimma is prepared to play these blokes for the long term benefit, for short term loss.
The difference could be finishing 6th this year rather than 5th , which I'd happily give up if it meant O'Hanlon, Dea, Arnott, Helbig, Etc etc had forced Knights, Pettard, King, Grigg, out of the side.
I have no doubt we've seen the best season of the mature age recruits, as such we need the improvement to come from draftees and if we don't we'll stagnate or go backwards.
Really looking forward to see if the younger players can take the club to the next step , if so Dimma's resigning is well and truly justified.

 

[DrMike]

Or they ain't up to it or we can't develop players. By saying this I by no means are suggesting this to be the case just trying to add some balance to the argument and where the club is at , admittedly IMO.
You could argue that we many players upon our list , who joined the club as a 18 year old had their worst season in 2013 , showing they are in fact going backwards.
I believe players from others clubs will make us a 8-4 side but it is the younger players who , as you have stated, have been somewhat protected and given the golden development that will take us beyond 4.
Are Griffiths, Astbury, Elton, Helbig, Arnott, 'Hanlon, Dea showing signs of being capable of taking us from 5-7 to 1-4 , I am not sure.
This year is make or break for many of them and for that reason I'd have preferred the club wait to see if these players who have been developed under Dimma are good enough and Dimma is prepared to play these blokes for the long term benefit, for short term loss.
The difference could be finishing 6th this year rather than 5th , which I'd happily give up if it meant O'Hanlon, Dea, Arnott, Helbig, Etc etc had forced Knights, Pettard, King, Grigg, out of the side.
I have no doubt we've seen the best season of the mature age recruits, as such we need the improvement to come from draftees and if we don't we'll stagnate or go backwards.
Really looking forward to see if the younger players can take us the next step , if so Dimma's resigning is well and truly justified.

I agree there's the potential for it, I just disagree that they aren't capable because Hardwick got a contract extension. We'll only find out if these kids are good enough long term, beyond Hardwick's new contract being over.

To me it's pointless arguing over what could be or might be, let's focus on what the club can control, with that being Hardwick's contract.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I agree there's the potential for it, I just disagree that they aren't capable because Hardwick got a contract extension. We'll only find out if these kids are good enough long term, beyond Hardwick's new contract being over.

To me it's pointless arguing over what could be or might be, let's focus on what the club can control, with that being Hardwick's contract.

Point is Mike, given our perceived list I think it is an expectation that by 2016 we will have finished higher than 5th and if we haven't it will rightly or wrongly be perceived that Dimma has failed.
I see it as a very likely scenario and on the decline there after, as the higher draftee picks like Lids, Cotchin, Dustin, start to incur injuries and drop in form, which happens as players get older.

 

[_RT_]

I have no doubt our list has improved nor that it a catastrophe would have to occur for him to be sacked before the 2016 end of contract .
However out list improvement has predominately been on the back of mature age recruiting whom all are of similar age . Not unthinkable that there is only 3 players in the best 22 who have joined the club , since Dimmas arrival , as an 18 year old and all are mids .
No issue till the mature agers start to retire or who's form start to mirror the form they had at their previous club .

Agree our list improvement has come predominately on the back of mature aged recruits, but it's not too dissimilar to what Geelong and even Hawthorn have done in recent years as well. They brought in mature aged players to top up their lists while allowing their younger kids to develop at VFL level. As such it's little surprise that when Geelong in particular have had to call up the younger kids to replace older players they have been able to step in and fill the role asked without much drop off in overall team performance.

As such I have no worry about the list moving forward, especially given all the work the club has done behind the scenes to ensure that the VFL side will be able to fast track the development of the draftees that have come in over the last 2-3 years.

 

[WATiger86]

Personally I like the decision to extend Dimma's contact, as I think stability is golden and think Dimma has done enough to justify a longer term at the helm.

However I like that people are challenging the decision and enjoy reading their reasons why. If everyone sung to the clubs cong sheet like some on here would like, this place would be a total bore!

 

[theflea]

I would also add I cant think of a better coaching group, particularly for the younger players, than I have ever seen at the club.

 

[Truetiger]

Hardwick has had a very slow start. If he dips this year, is he any better .

Seriously??? With the list Hardwick took over not even the best coach out there would of got better results. What did you want finals in his first year with that crap list we had then?

 

[Bird Man]

God help this board if we dont make the 8 this year