Harry Taylor vs Josh Gibson

[Bobby_]

Like how Lonergan could keep Franklin on a leash but struggles 1v1 with Gunston.

Lonergan rarely took Gunston when he first entered the league though. That match-up has recently evolved given Roughead is often featuring further up the field nowadays.
Lonergan at 29, 30, 31 obviously wasn't the same athlete he was at 25, 26 or 27 as he's certainly lost a step. His best asset was that closing speed as people probably forget he is 197cm tall and rather lanky in stature (very Gunston-like actually).
As Lonergan's closing has dropped off a touch, Gunston is really a nightmare match-up given he's well and truly in his prime and extremely nimble for his height of 193cm.

Jackson Thurlow would be my preferred match up for Gunston from now on. Huge vertical leap and has a rare ability of being a very good two-footed jumper so he won't have an issue spoiling the slightly taller players.

 

[Sixpence]

Josh Gibson plays as a 2nd/3rd tall defender and zones off. Harry Taylor is a number 1 tall defender. Different players.

Spot on. Would be more interesting to compare Rance and Taylor to be honest.

 

[Milanista28]

Tay tay all day.

 

[KissKiss]

I agree with a lot of Hawks posters that Gibson is under rated. He is that amazing 2nd 3rd tall that zones off and gets to so many contests. He has struggled occasionally when he has had to play on the real number 1 key forward monsters (not that many can say they don't) but is great at matching up on all other medium and small forwards.

Saying all that I would still take Taylor as the more number 1 key defender

 

[HeHateMe]

If you where to pick a team now to play tomorrow you would have both gibson and taylor in it.

Gibson is as good as any defender in the comp, that is no stretch but his hight and therefore weight has restricted him from becoming that revered full back over this hawthorn era.

But if you where to give an award to the best overall defender for the past 4 years Gibson would be my pick.

If you where to pick a full back to build a team around you pick Taylor.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[blitzer]

Taylor's a bit better because you can play him on anyone and his performances have been very good over a long period of time. Gibson has been great over the last few years and i would say is a better rebounder than Taylor. Not a lot in it - but Taylor is a bit more structurally important and has performed marginally better over his career.

 

[Masqualero]

Both gun defenders, Taylor the better all round player in my opinion. He is more versatile, better kick and mark as well.

 

[MinerBoy]

Josh Gibson plays as a 2nd/3rd tall defender and zones off. Harry Taylor is a number 1 tall defender. Different players.

In fact as a number 1 KPD, I'd take Mal Michael over Gibson.

As a 3rd tall defender Gibson is better than Taylor however.

Gibson has played nearly his entire time at Hawthorn as the No.1/2 KPD playing on and beating the main opposition KPF all the while having the balls to leave his own man and chop out 3rd man up for his team mates and creating plenty of drive and rebound with great skill.

Ridiculously under rated.

As a pure stopping KPD, taking in to account his physical attributes being suitable to the task, then Taylor is better. As an all round defender and footballer, Gibson is better.

Either way, the best two backman in the AFL from about 2010 IMO.

 

[Back One Out]

People are comparing them as KPDs which is unfair on Gibson

Taylor is better than Gibson at nullifying an opponent in aerial contests, but I think Gibson is hands-down the better footballer in terms of everything else he brings to the backline. He just does more than Taylor: helping teammates as the 3rd man up, mopping up when the ball hits the ground, second and third efforts, running to space to receive, rebounding, etc. He holds Hawthorn's defence together and gets involved in more passages of play than Harry.

People seem to have a massive blind spot when it comes to acknowledging how good Gibson has been for Hawthorn.

Hawthorn has been the better team than Geelong over the past 5-6 seasons, better depth, more stars and yet Gibbo's record in the best & fairest compares favourably to Harry Taylor's record at Geelong.


Harry Taylor
2010 19 games,
2011 22 games, 10th in B&F
2012 15 games, 4th in B&F
2013 19 games, 2nd in B&F
2014 17 games, 5th in B&F
2015 11 games, 8th in B&F


Josh Gibson
2010 12 games, 17th in B&F (averaged 6th most votes per game)
2011 25 games, 2nd in B&F
2012 22 games, 12th in B&F
2013 24 games, WON B&F
2014 17 games, 10th in B&F (averaged 4th most votes per game)
2015 25 games, WON B&F

 

[eth-dog]

Taylor. No disrespect to Gibson though, good defender.

 

[Dom PC]

Harry Taylor is a two time AA KPD. Comparing him to Gibson is no insult to Gibson. Not sure why the comparison is getting Hawks fans in a twist?

Sure they play different roles, but jeez, Taylor is a bloody good player.

 

[MinerBoy]

Harry Taylor is a two time AA KPD. Comparing him to Gibson is no insult to Gibson. Not sure why the comparison is getting Hawks fans in a twist?

Sure they play different roles, but jeez, Taylor is a bloody good player.

As is the two time Premiership B&F winner.

No knickers twisted. Just giving the counter opinion. WHy your knickers twisted that we rate Gibson? It's no shame to Taylor to be compared with Gibson.

 

[juss]

Taylor.

There's a reason Hawthorn went out and targeted two other premier KPDs in Lake and Frawley. It's because ideally Gibson doesn't play on the best KPF week to week. Not trying to disrespect Gibson who is a gun, but if you're picking a pure KPD for a team from scratch, you pick Taylor before Gibson (assuming other KPDs are off the table).

 

[MinerBoy]

Taylor.

There's a reason Hawthorn went out and targeted two other premier KPDs in Lake and Frawley. It's because ideally Gibson doesn't play on the best KPF week to week. Not trying to disrespect Gibson who is a gun, but if you're picking a pure KPD for a team from scratch, you pick Taylor before Gibson (assuming other KPDs are off the table).

Most Hawks have said you'd still pick Taylor as a KPD, but I don't think the Q was who is the better KPD. All round I think Gibson is the better player.

As I said earlier, despite a considerable size disadvantage has taken on and beaten the KPFs through necessity as well as being the best in the biz at leaving his own man and chopping out his team mates. Add in his rebound and ability to still win a heap of the footy while doing all that then I think as a footballer or more rounded backman, Gibson has been better.

As I also said, I think they've been the best 2 backman over the entire period of 2010 onwards (so who cares either way in the end), although Rance has certainly presented his case the past few years.

 

[juss]

Most Hawks have said you'd still pick Taylor as a KPD, but I don't think the Q was who is the better KPD. All round I think Gibson is the better player.

As I said earlier, despite a considerable size disadvantage has taken on and beaten the KPFs through necessity as well as being the best in the biz at leaving his own man and chopping out his team mates. Add in his rebound and ability to still win a heap of the footy while doing all that then I think as a footballer or more rounded backman, Gibson has been better.

As I also said, I think they've been the best 2 backman over the entire period of 2010 onwards (so who cares either way in the end), although Rance has certainly presented his case the past few years.

Rance will get there, a few more seasons like his 13/14/15 and he'll be right up there. But not there yet (overall career wise).

Fair point about overall player vs pure KPD.
Certainly makes it a lot more difficult to decide, I'd still stick with Harry as the pure KPD, but let's say I already had an elite KPD in my team, it'd be interesting who the next guy you'd pick would be.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Taylor.

There's a reason Hawthorn went out and targeted two other premier KPDs in Lake and Frawley. It's because ideally Gibson doesn't play on the best KPF week to week. Not trying to disrespect Gibson who is a gun, but if you're picking a pure KPD for a team from scratch, you pick Taylor before Gibson (assuming other KPDs are off the table).

Taylor doesn't typically play on the best KPF either to be fair

 

[Dom PC]

As is the two time Premiership B&F winner.

No knickers twisted. Just giving the counter opinion. WHy your knickers twisted that we rate Gibson? It's no shame to Taylor to be compared with Gibson.

Not going to repeat myself. Feel free to respond to what I posted earlier in this thread about Gibson.

 

[MinerBoy]

Not going to repeat myself. Feel free to respond to what I posted earlier in this thread about Gibson.

I did.


I'll repeat myself again though.

Gibson has played nearly his entire time at Hawthorn as the No.1/2 KPD playing on and beating the main opposition KPF all the while having the balls to leave his own man and chop out 3rd man up for his team mates and creating plenty of drive and rebound with great skill.

Ridiculously under rated.

As a pure stopping KPD, taking in to account his physical attributes being suitable to the task, then Taylor is better. As an all round defender and footballer, Gibson is better.

Either way, the best two backman in the AFL from about 2010 IMO.

Your contention that Gibson plays as the 3rd tall is wrong. He's probably had the benefit of that luxury for about 6 games in his entire time at Hawthorn.

 

[krisholio14]

No, but he is a decent one on one defender in his prime. Harry Taylor isn't. Taylor if you'll remember was moved off of Cloke in the 2011 Grand Final because he was being torn a new one. That's probably going to be the most historically memorable example of him not being up to taking on the No.1 forward.

What about Harry outplaying St Nick in the 2009 decider? Should have won the Norm Smith that day.

 

[krisholio14]

Maybe you're right stylistically but Gibson has probably played as a number one tall more often than Taylor over their careers.

Some of that has been out of necessity rather than preference though.

Gibson is at his most effective with he can take a medium forward and play third man up or the spare man in defense. That's not a knock on him either, he's one of the best, if not the best, in the league at it. He used to be a predominantly defensive minded player, who has gradually added a more attacking side to his game since he's been at Hawthorn.

Harry Taylor has been the best contested marking defender in the comp for some time, alongside Lake and more recently Rance. His talents are much better suited to him being able to play a more attacking role if we can free him up. He is more than capable of playing a one on one negating role though, and on that basis I rate him over Gibson.

 

[Lethality]

What about Harry outplaying St Nick in the 2009 decider? Should have won the Norm Smith that day.

Not too hard to beat a key forward on a wet day. Besides even Nathan Brown did a better job on Riewoldt in Grand Finals.

 

[krisholio14]

Not too hard to beat a key forward on a wet day. Besides even Nathan Brown did a better job on Riewoldt in Grand Finals.

Was Nathan Brown widely acknowledged as BOG in that GF? I don't think so.

 

[Lethality]

Was Nathan Brown widely acknowledged as BOG in that GF? I don't think so.

I wasn't aware that Harry Taylor won the Norm Smith.

 

[Stan Van Gundy]

Harry Taylor by the length of the Flemington.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

Gibbo isn't a key defender. He's 189cm ffs. If we are comparing them as key defenders then Taylor by a mile but in terms of playing their position I'm happy with Gibbo