Mega Thread Has Clarko reached his use-by-date? *** All coach related discussion in here please***

[HawksILove]

Love to get Gary Ayres to coach is a master of all trades

 

[jpap]

Clarkson is suffering from following:

1. Fact his preseason expectation was to improve last year - this is shaky at moment

2. Fact he stated preseason training had set us up for fast start - this has not occurred

3. Fact while other teams (Ess, WB, Adel) prepared to play contested football we seem to have gone backwards on this aspect

Clarkson is perceived as coaching a team that is underperforming and with game plan that is based on uncontested possessions, hence ineffective.

I look at Collingwood with 7-8 players injured, poor pre-season, new coach and they still play their guts out and perform. I look a Hawthorn and it's injuries, tough draw or problems with structure blah blah why we are underperforming.

Clarko's time is coming to an end, unless he pulls this season out of the frypan...

 

[J0NNY B]

Tomorrow, the President should communicate to the members by a newsletter. As members, we have a right to demand answers. He should be proactive about this.

The Pres should announce that Mick Malthouse will complete an independent review of the gameplan and football department over the next 8 weeks, not sure how unsettling this will be, but as a fan, the HFC has fecking destroyed my week, and i'm bloody angry. We need to take a step now before it is too late.

Scope for Mick:
- Review of gameday preparation and strategy
- review of all assistant coaches (particularly Adam Simpson and Bolton)
- player development
- GAMEPLAN
- recruiting

Conclusion: Identify strengths and play to them

Buddy, Rough and Cyril are at their prime, we are just not using them correctly. They are rotting away. Badly.

Hope we respond next week, I really do

We can save some money and just listen to his pre-match reviews, pretty much has been spot on regarding the hawks all year.

 

[hardon]

Love to get Gary Ayres to coach is a master of all trades

i would like to officially second this motion.

time to try something else. bring gary home. would a thread of same title get up?

 

[Brown Blood]

If this is the case as you state (which i highly doubt but perhaps your right)...

Why - the club has already stated that happens.

Mr J Dunstall and hawk board, i understand that the dismissal of A Clarkson is not practical at this stage, noting its round 9 and he has just signed a 3 year deal, and possibly/perhaps not warranted or justified. However please read and note our concerns and issues raised.

He's Jason Dunstall - I have never heard him or any other hawk player etc etc referred to as mr

But as you say he has just signed a 3 yr deal so what do you think will happen - not that that matters anyway - we are not about to sack clarko.

BTW do you think you are einstein - I would think the club is well aware "issues" are appearing with the playing /coaching group.

I propose the board takes leadership and makes changes immediately...for example, Gary Ayres can be employed back to hawthorn in the coaches department

Can he? And he is a failed coach & AFL football has changed a lot since he got the sack from adelaide.

Rod Eade can be approached and poached with the right $ offerings as a tactician assistant,

Can he? He works for collingwood.

Dikos - you seem to make a lot of statements that are not based on any fact!

and a new coaching panel can be assembled effective immediately

.How quickly? I'm not against making some changes but a new coaching panel!!

I'm not writing this season off yet - we are still in the eight yet playing like shit.

They have been spent over 4 years losing 6 times in the same unacceptable manner to the Cats

WE actually beat the cats in the 2008 GF which is not 4 yrs ago & we can still beat them in this years GF (or before) which will be 4 years from 2008.

, losing a prelim in the same manner to the Pies

If you think that is clarksons fault then you have serious issues.

losing to swans and tigers in the manner in which we lost,

Yep - nobody would dispute they are bad loses

It's time for a shake up and change, we have the money, time to move and act ala what essendon did.

What did they do - shafted matty knights - gave up the whole season to shaft him totally just to bring in hird - is that what you want? - BTW we don't have a hird in the wings - our membership won't accept us shafting a premiership coach and we don't have an easy draw like hird has this year.

And I still think we will go deeper into september than the scum will even with their draw.

I also think the players also need to have a good look at themselves (in fact more than the coaching group).

In 2005 we were trend setters with clarkson viney and hardwick...we can be new trend setters again with above approach/shake up.

All you do is call for change without actually defining how it can be done & who will takeover the changed roles.

You actually don't have an approach.

 

[J0NNY B]

Like a lot of Hawk supporters yesterday I sat in the stands in shock. But unlike many of them my concern is not with the coaching. What I saw yesterday was a lack of communication between players and bad decision-making. Perhaps it was because they were under a form of pressure that they were not used to - especially Richmond players running with the ball into their forward line, something that has to be looked at and responded to. But more importantly, our destruction in the centre of the ground with the lack of communication, and the loss of form over time by our mids, suggests to me that there may be a problem between those players or some of those players. I played in a team once where this happened. It was a good team but the problem lost us a premiership.

I guess this year you do not need to start the keep Clarko campaign!
I don't get your protection of the coach, you used to be critical of his complicated structures but now you only post when he needs support? Are you getting paid/influenced?
Anyway you have tried to compare Clarkon and Malthouse with reference to premierships. The true sign of a good coach is how often their team plays with good communication and good decision making, effort, heart etc. Who do you think has achieved a better result, Clarko or Malthouse?

 

[blackhead&boil]

Talk about trading Cyril is ridiculous.

He is in his 5th season. Still a baby. Expecting him to get 30 each week is wrong. He came to us with bad endurance which is why he slipped to us in the draft.

cyril is not a 30 touch player. he is a 30 point player. he should be kicking around 5 goals per game...

 

[Harper_Hawk]

cyril is not a 30 touch player. he is a 30 point player. he should be kicking around 5 goals per game...

Exactly. How many seasons in is J.Selwood. He's captaining his team and has 3 premierships under his belt. Most importantly. He plays for his coach, his team mates and the supporters. Has pride in what he does on the field...
and his determination to win the ball is second to none. Something that is and was sadly missing from the whole Hawthorn team on Saturday. DESIRE for the footy.

 

[blackhead&boil]

Exactly. How many seasons in is J.Selwood. He's captaining his team and has 3 premierships under his belt. Most importantly. He plays for his coach, his team mates and the supporters. Has pride in what he does on the field...
and his determination to win the ball is second to none. Something that is and was sadly missing from the whole Hawthorn team on Saturday. DESIRE for the footy.

that's not really what I was saying...

 

[IMSICKOFHAWKS]

Clarko must go, his rubbish and fall of rubbish. We have all of this talented players and we have lost four games this year already!!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe what is going on!!!!!!!! Clarko must get sacked right now!!!!!!!!

 

[glenferry23]

Your user name suggests you seriously dislike our club. Why keep following us if we cause you such angst?

 

[MinerBoy]

Re: I've had enough of Clarkson.

Unless Clarko reinvigorates the side with youth and has us playing energised football come seasons end he should be respectfully paid out and moved on.

I would bring in Paul Roos as coach. We have the money, pay out Clarko and bring in Roos.

Say what you want about Roos but he is exactly what we need. He built the best culture of any club I have ever seen.

Oh yuk.

I like your passion H2F, and some of your ideas, but I don't like this.

 

[GoldenHodge]

The club is not going to sack clarko. What we need is a full review of the players, the coaches and recruiters. I reckon Al Clarkson needs to overhaul the gameplan and also might need different coaches around him who he can delegate roles to and get advice from.

 

[Brant]

The club is not going to sack clarko. What we need is a full review of the players, the coaches and recruiters. I reckon Al Clarkson needs to overhaul the gameplan and also might need different coaches around him who he can delegate roles to and get advice from.

And what if a recommendation of the review is that Clarko is not the man for the job? He sticks around & sees out his contract?

 

[GoldenHodge]

And what if a recommendation of the review is that Clarko is not the man for the job? He sticks around & sees out his contract?

Then you look for another coach, but I think it's unlikely that the club is going to sack Clarko. I know many people are calling for Clarko to be sacked, but if they keep him, then he has to look at his gameplan and the club has to look at every aspect of the football club on-field to see if it can be improved.

 

[Mighty P]

You contradict yourself all in one post. You acknowledge picks are a gamble, that they could be a gun or a dud, but you want to move a genuine star for this risk.

I might trade Cyril for a Cotchin, a Martin or a Murphy, and I'd do it sadly... I certainly wouldn't trade him for a pick 7, which could just as likely be a Dowler or a Thorp (with our track record)

You missed the irony in my second sentence. Of course pick 12 is not worth two pick sixes, which is why I find your keenness for a hypothetical pick 7 over an established player, and sometime match-winner, rather odd.

This is so true; and I would be willing to stake my house on it that IF we did get rid of Cyril he would become an absolute superstar-gun-4 quarter effort-player at whichever club he goes to. The kid is still young, plenty of improvement left in him, and if our coaches can continue to help him develop he will become a legend for the Hawks.

I reckon selling Cyril will become a Kennedy-like situation where Hawks supporters will be crying out "why did we get rid of him?", and then enjoy him tearing the game to shreds for his new club.

So no, players like Cyril should be strictly off-limits as trade bait. You wanna get rid of someone for trades? Get rid of Whitecross for example, or any other number of players that aren't gonna get us anywhere in the near future., but definitely NOT our gun players while there is still hope.

 

[Satchel]

Well, here we differ.

A. Just because Cyril does not get 30 touches a game doesn't mean he gives us '10 minutes'

It is quality over quantity with Cyril, his ratio of touches to goal scoring opportunities is second to none, not to mention his tackling which also leads to many goals. He is still getting his tank right as well, after his hamstring problems.

B. Pick 7 is an unknown, regardless of the 'super'-ness or otherwise of the draft, and is therefore a risk. As I said earlier, we have been scarred by Dowler and Thorp picks before

C. Trading best 22 players who don't want to go erodes the fabric of the club. Trades should be a win-win, where the player wants to go for more money/opportunity.

The only forced trade that ever worked was trading Croad and MacPharlin for the number one and 31 picks (Hodge and Mitchell), but even then, it caused massive angst among the club, staff and supporters (and we were shit for another five years afterward)

That worked because the club KNEW who they would get, while Pick 7 could be anyone.

Just not worth the risk, unless Cyril wants to go, and then I'd want more than pick 7

Stuey Dew comes to mind

 

[lethalselbow]

The "Replace him immediately" poll question is just ludicrous. Clearly not going to happen, nor should it, and those that ticked it are just foolish. These kind of decisions don't happen at clubs like Hawthorn. Not sure what the win/loss is over the last 30 games, but probably going 20 Wins to 10 Losses, or thereabouts.

Anyway, you need stupid poll questions to weed out the stupid. You throw away that data and you're left with healthy data that is relevant and far more interesting.

A peanut is the actual equivalent answer to "replace him now".

 

[La Vache]

Before you people consider anything else, think about the cost of paying out Clarkson's contract and hiring someone like Malthouse.

 

[hardon]

The "Replace him immediately" poll question is just ludicrous. Clearly not going to happen, nor should it, and those that ticked it are just foolish. These kind of decisions don't happen at clubs like Hawthorn. Not sure what the win/loss is over the last 30 games, but probably going 20 Wins to 10 Losses, or thereabouts.

Anyway, you need stupid poll questions to weed out the stupid. You throw away that data and you're left with healthy data that is relevant and far more interesting.

A peanut is the actual equivalent answer to "replace him now".

poll did not have a "i wanted him gone before now" option. how are these people to vote?

they probably all voted for the immediate option. a protest that he is still here if you like.

 

[grizzlym]

I must add, I did not create the poll, merely merged a group of 'like' threads, one of which had a poll.

 

[JustKickIt]

The "Replace him immediately" poll question is just ludicrous. Clearly not going to happen, nor should it, and those that ticked it are just foolish. These kind of decisions don't happen at clubs like Hawthorn. Not sure what the win/loss is over the last 30 games, but probably going 20 Wins to 10 Losses, or thereabouts.

Anyway, you need stupid poll questions to weed out the stupid. You throw away that data and you're left with healthy data that is relevant and far more interesting.

A peanut is the actual equivalent answer to "replace him now".

 

[hawks realist]

poll did not have a "i wanted him gone before now" option. how are these people to vote?

they probably all voted for the immediate option. a protest that he is still here if you like.

A peanut wouldn't consider that option,

 

[Jayd19]

The problem with being cutting edge is that when the opposition work it out we are then lost.

Clarko's cluster won us a premiership in 08. It wad found out and 09 and 10 were wasted.

The precise, kick through the press plan took us to within a kick of the GF in 11 (with a huge injury toll) but the decline of the press in 12 means we are going nowhere this year.

It seems to be cyclical. The question is whether the "up" part of the cycle is worth the crash back to earth.

Bottom line is this season is gone because our team are drilled to play a way that doesn't work this year and there's no time to learn a new Clarko invention.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

The problem with being cutting edge is that when the opposition work it out we are then lost.

Clarko's cluster won us a premiership in 08. It wad found out and 09 and 10 were wasted.

The precise, kick through the press plan took us to within a kick of the GF in 11 (with a huge injury toll) but the decline of the press in 12 means we are going nowhere this year.

It seems to be cyclical. The question is whether the "up" part of the cycle is worth the crash back to earth.

Bottom line is this season is gone because our team are drilled to play a way that doesn't work this year and there's no time to learn a new Clarko invention.

You mean the "up" part as in winning a premiership? Err yeah I think it is worth the crash back down all the way. Get some perspective please.