Has collingwood been worked out?

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LordLucifer said:
Off topic .........

Why do people see the need to put that word at the end of their post ??

Two questions have been asked anyway and the purpose of a forum is to make discussion.
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Not too sure. I’d be fine having it or omitting it. I don’t have a particular reason or explanation for you on it.
 

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I don't think they've been "worked out".

What they did last season - and how they did it - is not a secret. Every coaching group would be aware of what they did and have ideas about how to stop it.

But having the plan is one thing. Having the players capable of executing that plan is a completely different story. Last year nobody was able to when it mattered most.

Let's not overstate Collingwood as a side. Yeah they're reigning premiers and they deserve enormous credit for that, but they weren't and aren't head and shoulders above the competition.

Perhaps they were comfortably the best side in it, in the first half of last season, but the gap tightened considerably through the second half of the year and certainly in the finals - let's not forget they won 3 finals by a combined 12 points.

Enormous mental fortitude was shown to get over the line each time, absolutely. But it doesn't take a hell of a lot for those results to be very different.

And we're seeing that now. Their players look slow, sluggish and lacking a bit of motivation. I also think Nathan Murphy is a far bigger loss than many think. Yes, they've started poorly, but they're not the first premiership side to do so and they certainly won't be the last.

Is it fun as a neutral watching them start 0-2? Absolutely.
Will they recover? Maybe.
Is it too early to write them off? You bet.

Nobody wants to start 0-2 but they won't be panicking. Macrae is a terrific coach and they've got more than enough cool heads there to turn it around.

Next game is big though. Lose to the Saints and the noise won't get any quieter; it's certainly not impossible to come back from that, but it does start getting a little tougher.
 
Wouldn't be panicking yet as a pies fan, they've gone down to 2 very good teams, still plenty of time for them to bounce back.
Who's to say GWS and Sydney aren't peeking to early!
Will be really interesting to see how these 3 teams go this year, would love to see GWS snag a flag.
 
Jeremias said:
I don't think they've been "worked out".

What they did last season - and how they did it - is not a secret. Every coaching group would be aware of what they did and have ideas about how to stop it.

But having the plan is one thing. Having the players capable of executing that plan is a completely different story. Last year nobody was able to when it mattered most.

Let's not overstate Collingwood as a side. Yeah they're reigning premiers and they deserve enormous credit for that, but they weren't and aren't head and shoulders above the competition.

Perhaps they were comfortably the best side in it, in the first half of last season, but the gap tightened considerably through the second half of the year and certainly in the finals - let's not forget they won 3 finals by a combined 12 points.

Enormous mental fortitude was shown to get over the line each time, absolutely. But it doesn't take a hell of a lot for those results to be very different.

And we're seeing that now. Their players look slow, sluggish and lacking a bit of motivation. I also think Nathan Murphy is a far bigger loss than many think. Yes, they've started poorly, but they're not the first premiership side to do so and they certainly won't be the last.

Is it fun as a neutral watching them start 0-2? Absolutely.
Will they recover? Maybe.
Is it too early to write them off? You bet.

Nobody wants to start 0-2 but they won't be panicking. Macrae is a terrific coach and they've got more than enough cool heads there to turn it around.

Next game is big though. Lose to the Saints and the noise won't get any quieter; it's certainly not impossible to come back from that, but it does start getting a little tougher.
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0-3 is legit game over. I don’t think there has been an AFL era premier that has done that.
 
76woodenspooners said:
No, Collingwood haven’t been worked out

Our own players clearly haven’t figured out what they’re doing, how could the opposition be expected to?
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Bathing in their premiership medals. Pretty good spot to be in mate. Rather have one around their necks than be the chasing pack the next year.

At least they’ve achieved something.
 
ibd77 said:
Collingwoods issue this season is hunger. Nothing else. They may get that back in the 2nd half of the season.
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Shows how hard it is to get up the year after a flag.

Even Pies supporter's I’m mates with are quite apathetic to their start this year.
 
They were coached to a flag, opposed to being purely the best football club talent-wise.

This isn’t a dig, you can say the same about Sydney’s 2012 flag that was against the odds. Our best forward that year was one Sam Reid and Jetta just happened to have a season for the ages. It happens and it shows that you have to take your chances.

Collingwood cannot afford to drop off 10% otherwise they’re suddenly a 4th-8th placed team. Scraping home in every final isn’t sustainable and the cliff will come sooner for a team like that. No shade, they grinded their way to a flag and you can’t take that away from them, but the drop may come very quickly.


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They're exactly the same team they were in 2022 where they fluked their way to finals and were beaten by superior teams. 2023 was a Bradbury year where the best teams were struck with injuries (Swans), were too old (Geelong) or just emerging (GWS). Collingwood won 8 games by single digits so they're vastly overrated. Competition is back now so the illusion of them being this great team will go down the shitter pretty quickly.
 
I'm going to make a big call here. They'll make the finals but they won't finish in the top four imo.

It takes a great team to put back to back flags together and the Pies are a couple of players short off being a great team imo.

It was a remarkable flag win last year, but they really did have to overreach themselves to win it. A lot of heart, spirit, determination, good coaching and some fortutious umpiring decisions won them that flag.

I just think going back to back will require something special, and i'm just not sure that something special is there.
 
Last edited:
3207 said:
Every umpire hates the Giants. Our games are officiated with a distinct bias and agenda against us.

It’s honestly sickening.
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It reminds me of the British Police hunting down "outlaws" in the bush in the early years of Oz settlement.
 
gbatman said:
The big reason why Collingwood have been so good for the last two seasons is not because they have an exceptional list, they have a good list, it's because they have been ahead of the rest in regards to the anti-congestion rules which came in.

When the AFL brought in the stand, 666 and kickout rules. Most teams fought against it and attempted to maintain their old way of playing. Keeping the game congested, contested, boundary side and in close. Collingwood decided to submit to what the AFL were trying to achieve and formulated a game plan that was based around fast and direct ball movement which opened the game up, allowed their forwards more space to work in and gassed their opponents, making the up and back defensive running that much harder.

They also moved away from the old way of defending and applying pressure which was about having numbers and congestion around the ball to having fast agile players around the ball and playing a very close one on one game while keeping the field setup balanced.

I think Collingwood's list management also saw the new rules coming and they maintained fast players who had the right attitude when it came to chasing, tackling and applying pressure.

Two things have happened. All the other sides have caught up and have developed the same gameplan and fundamentals. Teams are going for faster more direct ball movement and have introduced faster, pressure orientated players to their wings, flanks and onball groups.

Other teams are giving them a taste of their own medicine. Having more speed around the ball, applying good heat on them, making them run a lot harder defensively etc.

What made Collingwood's gameplan work was their effort. Hard chasing, hard running, high pressure through high efforts. After two really hard long seasons and coming off a premiership, it's fair to say the effort may have dropped 5% which is enough to make their tactics fail.

The other issue they are having is the lack of a tall forward target is beginning to bite them. McStay going down is a big one. Mihocek not in great form and being a sole tall target is not working. McStay didn't have a had in their grand final win but he had a hand in them getting there. They may have been able to win it without him but getting there is a long and hard journey which may have been too hard without him.

Their forward line is very non-threatening without those tall targets.

I think Collingwood were a good team (not a great team) with a great game plan which was intune with the new rules and was ahead of the rest of the competition. I think they are a teams with a few holes in them such as the lack of tall forwards and teams are exploiting that. I think 2 seasons of ultra high effort football and coming off a flag may have taken a bit of the sting out of their game. I think the rest of the competition catching up tactically and list wise has also taken away what was unique and special about them.

I would not be surprised if they struggled this season. The quality is there but the aspects that gave them an advantage the last two season may not be.

The key for them is finding the motivation and spark and getting their pressure orientated game going again. If they can do that then the wins will start coming. But I don't think they will be top 4 again. Could be wrong though, they may find a player or two.
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Holy Exegesis, Batman!
Brilliant!
 
Cleansweep17 said:
0-3 is legit game over. I don’t think there has been an AFL era premier that has done that.
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The Saints game is really important for the Pies, because i just don't see them winning at the Gabba the following week
 
bloodsbigot said:
They're exactly the same team they were in 2022 where they fluked their way to finals and were beaten by superior teams. 2023 was a Bradbury year where the best teams were struck with injuries (Swans), were too old (Geelong) or just emerging (GWS). Collingwood won 8 games by single digits so they're vastly overrated. Competition is back now so the illusion of them being this great team will go down the shitter pretty quickly.
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Geelong had a horrid injury run as well as Swans, the short offseason killed both of our shot at it with guys dropping like flies left and right.
 
geelong_crazy26 said:
An obvious trend emerged between the GWS and Sydney games.

Both teams ran in a tsunami like wave off HB with a chain of overlap hand passes and then changing up the angles diagonally. This tsunami like run and gun off HB has sliced through collingwood now on two occasions with ease and had both teams often strolling into open forward fifty meters like a picnic stroll.

Have collingwood been worked out strategically?? Or is it something else?? Discuss
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GWS even gave the Pies a tsunami warning in advance and the dumb ****ers didn't heed it. :)
 

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Has collingwood been worked out?

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