Has Malthouse Been A Failure?

[Black Flag]

I agree, that's what I just said. It wasn't absurd of Lounge Lizard to suggest MM would have come in with a good enough working knowledge of Carlton's list to have an expectation that good results could be achieved rapidly. They haven't yet and that's not a disaster but most Carlton fans would have been hoping for more than the team has achieved thus far in 2013.

a working knowledge of the list will only take you so far. mick himself had admitted to abandoning parts of his original plan as he became more familiar with our list.

the assertion that mick and carlton should have been kicking arse from day one, is in my opinion, unfair.

and remember, even though our win/loss is not great, we've been highly competitive against all sides. unlucky to not have a much healthier win:loss.

 

[Roby]

Playing group is highly talented but mentally inept, on their day they can beat anyone and I mean smashing. Murphy and Robinson go down against Hawthorn and no one had the ability to stand up - Mick can not fix this in a matter of weeks.
We have a serious leadership issue - we need a couple of players with a certain quality not necessarily highly talented because we are blessed we need a couple of players with lion hearts to compliment this mentally inept group.

Can't really complain about the overall competitiveness of the group this year they've been in every game.

Not Malthouse's or anyone's fault if if the best mid goes down early and the umpires get Hawthorn over the line.

This thread may have been locked or just down to page 6 if Carlton had beaten Hawthorn.

Carlton's real and main weakness is their defensive midfield pressure. Too many outside mids and you need some grunt hard players through that midfield that not just work both ways but can beat their opponent for strength and marking.

This week a real chance for Carlton to win a game against Sydney who are not at their best.

 

[Gone Critical]

a working knowledge of the list will only take you so far. mick himself had admitted to abandoning parts of his original plan as he became more familiar with our list.

the assertion that mick and carlton should have been kicking arse from day one, is in my opinion, unfair.

and remember, even though our win/loss is not great, we've been highly competitive against all sides. unlucky to not have a much healthier win:loss.

Why the hyperbole, absurd, kick arse. All that's been said was there was a mix of expectations and so far they fall on the lesser side of what Carlton hoped for.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Of course.

Because we knew that guy who at the time was a nobody who struggled for game time and form and who kicked half a goal a game while at Carlton was going to become a better than average key forward and would have been just what we needed.

Thats what you'd usually expect from a number four draft pick, yes. All it needs is a little patience.

 

[Matt Stevic]

One thing we know is Blues circa 2007 + JK + other draft picks were a rabble ... + Ratten changed all that. Without a doubt the bBest move the Blues have made this century.

Edited for accuracy

 

[Black Flag]

Why the hyperbole, absurd, kick arse. All that's been said was there was a mix of expectations and so far they fall on the lesser side of what Carlton hoped for.

whatever gc. i don't blame mick. i'll give him half a go.

 

[HBF]

I think that Carlton's worst has gotten better, but their best is yet to improve. Definitely not a failure, just needs time

That's a great way to look at it.
Well said.

Malthouse is 12 games in, with a list he inherited from Ratten.
Doing a pretty good job given our worst loss has been 17 points.

 

[bourbons]

Thats what you'd usually expect from a number four draft pick, yes. All it needs is a little patience.

Sure. Doesn't mean you don't trade him for the best player in the comp, especially when in the position carlton were at that time.

 

[JR78]

Why the hyperbole, absurd, kick arse. All that's been said was there was a mix of expectations and so far they fall on the lesser side of what Carlton hoped for.

Just the same as Collingwood with Buckley. They have gone backwards since he took over.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Sure. Doesn't mean you don't trade him for the best player in the comp, especially when in the position carlton were at that time.

Him and a couple other high picks.

I disagree. Judds nearly at the end now and what will you be left with?

 

[JR78]

Malthouse won't deliver a flag immediately because the list doesn't have enough depth. However, he will ensure that Carlton will be finals bound for many years to come. He has a proven track record in building lists and being successful.
Even this year they more than competed with Geelong for 20 minutes of each quarter - but fell away quickly when their better players were rotated and lacked midfield depth. Same against Essendon, Collingwood & even Hawthorn.
I'm not sure we've seen their best team as yet play together with Scotland, Betts, Kreuzer, Waite, Murphy, Gibbs, Yarran all missing plenty of footy at times.

 

[bourbons]

Him and a couple other high picks.

I disagree. Judds nearly at the end now and what will you be left with?

In 2007, what would we have been left with had the trade not occured? Possibly Fev as captain, thats what.

Hindsight is 20/20, so whats the point of could'ves and should'ves. Perception at the time was we bent west coast over in the trade coz Kennedy was no good, despite carlton knowing he was/would be. And, seriously, we're talking about mid 00s Judd - are you really going to pretend there is a single club in the league that would not make the trade if they could get the deal over the line?

 

[Fadge]

And with a bit of luck we could have ended up like Melbourne

Melbourne, a team with one fewer finals victory than Carlton since they claimed their greatest piece of silverware in recent times, the Kreuzer Cup.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hindsight is 20/20, so whats the point of could'ves and should'ves.

For what its worth I have been saying since day one that Carlton paid up too much for Judd. No individiual is worth three top 20 draft picks.

 

[dymot]

For what its worth I have been saying since day one that Carlton paid up too much for Judd. No individiual is worth three top 20 draft picks.

The fact they gave up their best forward for it too after sacking/trading Fev meant the position where they needed someone to stand up and help them win in the most was an utter disaster.

 

[Blue since 72]

Him and a couple other high picks.

I disagree. Judds nearly at the end now and what will you be left with?

For what its worth I have been saying since day one that Carlton paid up too much for Judd. No individiual is worth three top 20 draft picks.

The fact they gave up their best forward for it too after sacking/trading Fev meant the position where they needed someone to stand up and help them win in the most was an utter disaster.

I know the merits or otherwise of Judd's time at Carlton is a crowd favourite but what does it have to do with Malthouse?

Perhaps to keep it at least somewhat relevant you could offer a knowledgeable opinion on Malthouse's use of Judd this year.

 

[JR78]

For what its worth I have been saying since day one that Carlton paid up too much for Judd. No individiual is worth three top 20 draft picks.

Rubbish. Carlton were a basket case prior to Judd arriving. Memberships & sponsors came on board once he signed on. The younger midfielders have had an elite player to learn from as well. He's been worth every cent and I remember Collingwood offering him the world at the time.

 

[bourbons]

Melbourne, a team with one fewer finals victory than Carlton since they claimed their greatest piece of silverware in recent times, the Kreuzer Cup.

Yes, despite a finals victory its clear Carlton and Melbourne are pretty much in the same place

For what its worth I have been saying since day one that Carlton paid up too much for Judd. No individiual is worth three top 20 draft picks.

You'd be the only one. With that kind of insight its a wonder you don't work in the footy department of an AFL club. Fact remains that every club in the league would have done that deal, including yours. You might view it as fortuitous that the Pies ultimately weren't successful in getting Judd, but that happened because they didn't have the picks West Coast required, not because they were unwilling to part with them.

 

[Fadge]

Yes, despite a finals victory its clear Carlton and Melbourne are pretty much in the same place

Neither team has contended for a flag since that game, nor do either appear likely in the short to medium term.

Who knows what their respective situations are going to be 5 years plus.

Yep, they're in the same place.

 

[Fadge]

I know the merits or otherwise of Judd's time at Carlton is a crowd favourite but what does it have to do with Malthouse?

If you read the consensus of the anti-Malthouse posters, the Judd trade is very relevant to this topic.

The assertion is that the Carlton list is so far from a flag, Malthouse isn't the man to take them there. On the other hand, if they had the likes of Kennedy and Masten on their list instead of Judd, their list, right now, would be so much closer.

That's not saying that the Judd trade hasn't been a successful one, as it appears the Carlton folk are content peaking in the bottom half of the top eight given where they were prior to the trade, nor is it saying that Malthouse is a bad coach.

It's simply a case of the wrong coach at the wrong time. It's Carlton again searching for short term solutions in an era where long term strategic planning is the answer.

 

[bourbons]

Neither team has contended for a flag since that game, nor do either appear likely in the short to medium term.

Who knows what their respective situations are going to be 5 years plus.

Yep, they're in the same place.

lol

of course they are champ, top analysis

 

[Blue since 72]

If you read the consensus of the anti-Malthouse posters, the Judd trade is very relevant to this topic.

The assertion is that the Carlton list is so far from a flag, Malthouse isn't the man to take them there. On the other hand, if they had the likes of Kennedy and Masten on their list instead of Judd, their list, right now, would be so much closer.

That's not saying that the Judd trade hasn't been a successful one, as it appears the Carlton folk are content peaking in the bottom half of the top eight given where they were prior to the trade, nor is it saying that Malthouse is a bad coach.

It's simply a case of the wrong coach at the wrong time. It's Carlton again searching for short term solutions in an era where long term strategic planning is the answer.

Rubbish, it has no relevance to the premise behind the thread.

Has Malthouse failed at Carlton, ostensibly due to his win/loss record being the same as Ratten's at this time last year.

Going back to the Judd trade and presenting it as some sort of justifiable argument for Malthouse's current win/loss record or that Malthouse is already the wrong man for the job is ridiculous in the extreme.

I have no idea why you feign wonderment at the word troll being bandied around when this sort of tripe is the basis for an argument against Malthouse's record at Carlton in the six months he's been there.

You might want to start taking a reality based approach to your argument instead of some six year old hindsight what if senario.

 

[Monkey King]

Melbourne, a team with one fewer finals victory than Carlton since they claimed their greatest piece of silverware in recent times, the Kreuzer Cup.

Your diminutive logic is a blight on no one but yourself.

 

[Monkey King]

Rubbish, it has no relevance to the premise behind the thread.

Of course it does. Didn't you read Fadge's post? "If you read the consensus of the anti-Malthouse posters, the Judd trade is very relevant to this topic." The consensus it seems is a few of the usual suspect Pies posters who are willing to dig into anything they can paint negative on Malthouse. Open season for these nuffies I'm afraid. Logic left the building pages ago.

Oh well, things could be worse ... we could have Nathan Buckley as coach LOL

 

[Blue since 72]

Of course it does. Didn't you read Fadge's post? "If you read the consensus of the anti-Malthouse posters, the Judd trade is very relevant to this topic." The consensus it seems is a few of the usual suspect Pies posters who are willing to dig into anything they can paint negative on Malthouse. Open season for these nuffies I'm afraid. Logic left the building pages ago.

Oh well, things could be worse ... we could have Nathan Buckley as coach LOL

No, my consensus is that said posters have even less to do in their day than I do and have filled it by posting bullshit on the internet.

Wow, there's a surprise.