Has Malthouse Been A Failure?

[forwardflanker]

And Malthouse and the club aren't working on development, culture and gameplan?

Mick is clearly working on the culture, he has already given Waite and Yarran a kick up the arse.

Development isn't a major issue for us, well at least I don't think it is. Guys we've drafted that haven't developed have all been kept out by better players or have shown nothing to suggest they can be something. Is that a development issue?

As for gameplan, Mick has changed that already, and continues to do so.

Are you serious? You've had more access to blue chip draft picks than almost any other side (bar expansion clubs) the last decade yet have only won 1 final to show for it. Carlton's development and recruiting has to be one of the worst in the AFL imo. Gibbs, Yarran, Kreuzer, Hampson, Grigg, Watson, Bower, Russell are all top 20 picks who have underachieved at Carlton. That is an appalling strike rate imo

 

[The King!]

Wow malthouse has been given a decent run then. Failed to deliver the flag by round 12 i guess

 

[PP34]

So Carlton are in rebuild mode then? The era of Judd is over and must be declared a fail.

Not a rebuild. It's kind of a one step back, for two steps forward situation.

 

[scomac]

It is ludicrous to suggest that Carlton haven't improved, under Ratten they were basket cases.With the draw Carlton has i still believe that 6th or 7th is obtainable and then see if they have improved come finals. Malthouse is still tinkering with this side to find the right mix.

 

[PP34]

Are you serious? You've had more access to blue chip draft picks than almost any other side (bar expansion clubs) the last decade yet have only won 1 final to show for it. Carlton's development and recruiting has to be one of the worst in the AFL imo. Gibbs, Yarran, Kreuzer, Hampson, Grigg, Watson, Bower, Russell are all top 20 picks who have underachieved at Carlton. That is an appalling strike rate imo

Gibbs was held back by Ratten playing him as a bloody tagger for five years. Don't see how Yarran has underperformed. He didn't have a spot in the side early on as we didn't know what he was, then in 2011 we gave him a shot as a running half back and he played very well. Dealt with injuries last season, and he has been good when he has played this season. He's 22 for god's sake. They're still trying to work out where he best plays. Kreuzer has dealt with a serious knee injury, and some other injuries. Knee injuries wipe out a year or two, and in the case of a big man like Kreuzer, it was two years. Hampson is a dud, I'll give you that one. Grigg didn't have a spot cemented in the side, and I don't see why he should've. He wouldn't get a game over anyone in our midfield at the moment except for Lucas. Watson is young, but the signs are worrying. Bower was useless. Russell had a year or two playing really good football, but he ended up in Ratten's doghouse.

If anything that indicates our poor recruitment which we're attempting to alleviate. Hampson, Watson, Bower and Russel were all pretty useless picks.

 

[forwardflanker]

Hopefully for Carlton, MM can at least be around the club in the post season trade period later this year rather than flog his book.

+1 there's a real danger MM becomes the next Malcolm Blight imo especially given the Carlton board is about as unstable as the NSW labour party

 

[forwardflanker]

Gibbs was held back by Ratten playing him as a bloody tagger for five years. Don't see how Yarran has underperformed. He didn't have a spot in the side early on as we didn't know what he was, then in 2011 we gave him a shot as a running half back and he played very well. Dealt with injuries last season, and he has been good when he has played this season. He's 22 for god's sake. They're still trying to work out where he best plays. Kreuzer has dealt with a serious knee injury, and some other injuries. Knee injuries wipe out a year or two, and in the case of a big man like Kreuzer, it was two years. Hampson is a dud, I'll give you that one. Grigg didn't have a spot cemented in the side, and I don't see why he should've. He wouldn't get a game over anyone in our midfield at the moment except for Lucas. Watson is young, but the signs are worrying. Bower was useless. Russell had a year or two playing really good football, but he ended up in Ratten's doghouse.

If anything that indicates our poor recruitment which we're attempting to alleviate. Hampson, Watson, Bower and Russel were all pretty useless picks.

Are you trying to rebut my post because it basically reads like you agree with me 100% concerning Carltons woeful development? All I see there is a list of excuses for players who have underachieved. The fact remains that they have all underachieved on what was expected of them when drafted.

 

[PP34]

Are you trying to rebut my post because it basically reads like you agree with me 100% concerning Carltons woeful development? All I see there is a list of excuses for players who have underachieved. The fact remains that they have all underachieved on what was expected of them when drafted.

So how does Matthew Kreuzer's development have anything to do with our development area of the club? Whenever he plays, he's generally very good. Only injuries hold him back.

Gibbs gets a bad rap on here after a poor 2012. He was quite good before that for a midfielder who played defensive roles for far too long. Ratten and his dumb idea.

I don't even understand how you say that Yarran has underachived? He was a sixth pick for god's sake. He has been fine. Did you expect him to be a superstar by 22 or something? Absurd.

There's a difference between being able to develop players properly and being able to develop players with serious flaws in their games. Hampson can't bloody kick a ball nor mark it consistently. Maybe he just doesn't have the skills?

Watson has no leg speed whatsoever, so explain to me how Carlton's development guys are supposed to turn him into a quick guy? He doesn't have the body type to be fast. Clearly a mistake by recruiters.

Bower had no talent whatsoever. He was pick 20 though.

You act as though every player in the draft can easily be developed into a gun. Stop being so daft.

If you want to look at shit development look at the Demons. We have a recruiting issue.

 

[forwardflanker]

So how does Matthew Kreuzer's development have anything to do with our development area of the club? Whenever he plays, he's generally very good. Only injuries hold him back.

Gibbs gets a bad rap on here after a poor 2012. He was quite good before that for a midfielder who played defensive roles for far too long. Ratten and his dumb idea.

I don't even understand how you say that Yarran has underachived? He was a sixth pick for god's sake. He has been fine. Did you expect him to be a superstar by 22 or something? Absurd.

There's a difference between being able to develop players properly and being able to develop players with serious flaws in their games. Hampson can't bloody kick a ball nor mark it consistently. Maybe he just doesn't have the skills?

Watson has no leg speed whatsoever, so explain to me how Carlton's development guys are supposed to turn him into a quick guy? He doesn't have the body type to be fast. Clearly a mistake by recruiters.

Bower had no talent whatsoever. He was pick 20 though.

You act as though every player in the draft can easily be developed into a gun. Stop being so daft.

If you want to look at shit development look at the Demons. We have a recruiting issue.

Top clubs manage to do it. At Collingwood we've got Toovey, O'Brien, Williams, Keefe, Macaffer + a few more that I'm missing that all came to the club with serious technical flaws in their game but we've managed to turn into best 22. Sydney are famous for it - you complain about Hampson but he is as good if not better athlete than Mike Pyke who's become a very good league player. Blaming recruiters is the easy way, the reality is that your club is giving up a significant edge by not developing players to the same level as clubs like Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, WC, Geelong, Adelaide and I doubt you will ever be able to truly compete with those clubs over any sustained period of time unless you remedy this.

I don't get how you can say Yarran hasn't underachieved. He was been average all season, was sub last week and awful and no can't even get a kick in the magoos. Kreuzer is a decent/good player however it's likely that he'll never be considered a top 4-5 ruck in the comp - that is a pretty significant failure for a player judged to be the best in the land. Gibbs has been a complete disaster and if he played for a club like Melbourne he would be getting about as much heat as Watts right now.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

I would prefer the cats to play any number of teams before the Blues.

I feel like we've been this team at times in the recent past. But not because we grind performances out, rather because we were 'explosive' or 'dangerous'.

I'd be happy if the one thing that comes out of this year is that we're a considered a difficult team to play due to the former, as opposed the latter.

 

[dc king]

First time in a long while I've actually had confidence in a Carlton coach. Love what he's done with the club so far.

Far from a failure.

 

[DG-Man]

6-6. No loss by more than 17 points.
Surely MM needs more than a year to change a game plan that was very loose and to free flowing.
On Friday they seemed to show that they can be a high pressure contested team that wins the ball.
Unless WC improve I can't see them missing the 8. North or Adelaide won't make it.

 

[Duskfire]

Just not sure what people were expecting from Malthouse is all. Carlton will probably make the Finals, isn't that a pass mark? Did they think the Blues would win the Flag immediately because all of a sudden they have an experienced coach? Most coaches new to a team arent able to bring about success immediately; no reaosn why Mick should be able to.

 

[krisholio14]

I've said from day one Carlton and Malthouse would not work out, but having said that, I don't think my opinion on that is within an elephant's trumpet of being validated at this point. Looooong way to go yet, and I don't just mean this year.

 

[krisholio14]

Just not sure what people were expecting from Malthouse is all. Carlton will probably make the Finals, isn't that a pass mark? Did they think the Blues would win the Flag immediately because all of a sudden they have an experienced coach? Most coaches new to a team arent able to bring about success immediately; no reaosn why Mick should be able to.

A lot of people seemed to think they were a shoo in for top 4.

 

[Duskfire]

A lot of people seemed to think they were a shoo in for top 4.

???? Eh? Er. ???

 

[BLue_Bloys]

Loving the direction our side is heading, under Ratten we were very inconsistent and would be a completely different side from one week to the next. With Malthouse the ledger might look the same and lapses have hurt us, but the side is much better drilled. The forward line is the biggest concern, with Waite's body unreliable we need to put games into Casboult and Mitchell in the second half the season.

Ross Lyon has been the most relevant example of a coach coming in and taking on an experienced and capable side, took him a year to get it right at the saints and well into the second half of last year at the Dockers.

I'm expecting a decent turnover of players at the end of the year, I would think:

Collins, Davies, Joseph, O'Keeffe, - Gone
Dale, Duigan, Rowe - Possible delisting
Laidler, Warnock / Hampson - Possible trade

 

[Chief]

the club set to miss finals again

I'd like to borrow your crystal ball so I can put a few bets on.

 

[Bazzar]

Hard to say considering he has a mid ladder quality list.

Surprised they didnt go harder at last years draft in ready mades, but i would assume lots of delisting/trading next draft, then we will see. But when they are finally ready, Mick will be past it and moved on.

So i would predict, failure.

 

[Chief]

Mick wasn't brought in as a long term proposition. He was brought in for instant success (1 - 2 years)

I'd like to see the documentation on that.

 

[krisholio14]

???? Eh? Er. ???

A lot of people thought the combination of their list and Malthouse = Top 4.

 

[PP34]

A lot of people thought the combination of their list and Malthouse = Top 4.

Who? Robert Walls?

Where are these people?

 

[Monkey King]

Has been good

Yeah. I think he's pretty been good too. A few more wins would have been nice, but wins and losses are only one part of the story. Anyone saying he's done no better than Ratten simply hasn't been watching enough of Carlton the last few years.

Either way, good or bad, it's ridiculous to be making a call on failure or success at this point.

 

[dymot]

I'd like to borrow your crystal ball so I can put a few bets on.

Duritz has it and he calls it his orb.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I'd like to see the documentation on that.

"born 1953"