Analysis Have we really fixed our main weakness this year ?

[Tiger71]

Norf game 2013 that he missed it was noticeable how much we lacked his drive from the back half. We couldn't move the ball at all.

This post on the Bach thread got me thinking. So figured ill air my thoughts and get your input

IMO we have done a stack of work and went through a lot of pain developing the back 6 we have. One of our main weakness was simply the monster forwards used to rip us a new one. It looks like a Fit Astbury and a developing Elton, will go a long way to address it. Thats great but I believe we have a weakness thats even more damaging and that is that offensive half back that can run all day.

We have Houli and as the simple poster I quoted above noted ( which surprised me, he noticed it as he normally is nose deep into his bong) when Houli does not play, our run drys up and we more often lose. We then tried putting lids there but that again was robbing peter to pay Paul, not actually fixing this issue as we lose more then what we gain.

So I had a look at the list and have given my thoughts in maybe what our plan is to correct it.

Lennon- Different player then Houli but could be just as effective. What he lacks in pace, he can make up with ball movement. Why run 60 meters and kick it 30 when you can run 30 and kick it 60. Still a kid with a stack to learn but he has the size and ability IMO to be a really good quality defensive weapon

Hunt- He has played a tagging and mid role at the cats. Good defensive work with good speed. Could actually be a clone to Houli and may very well complement each other but does he have the tank ?

Conca - IMO, he has the talent. He is not slow, more medium paced, can at times make the odd wrong choice but even though he has not shown it often recently as a junior he was elite in getting in and out of traffic to allow him to seemingly burst from a pack to kick it lace out....my smokey.

Knights- Here is a player IMO I think could be a real weapon if he stays fit. Smart, can read the play and has a disposal that you would bet your mortgage on to hit a fellow team mate. Just knows how to create space for himself. He has limited speed but will that hinder him to much ? IMO worth a crack.

Anyone else ? IMO what killed us, was our run. Shut down Houli who creates and we struggle, we need to correct it and have we done enough work to do so ?

 

[Tiger Toffee]

I think what killed us in the first half of last year was our attacking players off half back were more concerned about their direct opponents than creating play when we had the ball, too many times they stayed glued to their opponent instead off running off their opponent and setting up the play, probably a result of the way we were playing and not wanting to get burnt on the rebound after we turned it over and thus be out of position.

 

[Tiger71]

I think what killed us in the first half of last year was our attacking players off half back were more concerned about their direct opponents than creating play when we had the ball, too many times they stayed glued to their opponent instead off running off their opponent and setting up the play, probably a result of the way we were playing and not wanting to get burnt on the rebound after we turned it over and thus be out of position.

Yeah I get that but what if Houli went down, who replaces him that adds the same value to our list ?

 

[tigs2010]

This post on the Bach thread got me thinking. So figured ill air my thoughts and get your input

IMO we have done a stack of work and went through a lot of pain developing the back 6 we have. One of our main weakness was simply the monster forwards used to rip us a new one. It looks like a Fit Astbury and a developing Elton, will go a long way to address it. Thats great but I believe we have a weakness thats even more damaging and that is that offensive half back that can run all day.

We have Houli and as the simple poster I quoted above noted ( which surprised me, he noticed it as he normally is nose deep into his bong) when Houli does not play, our run drys up and we more often lose. We then tried putting lids there but that again was robbing peter to pay Paul, not actually fixing this issue as we lose more then what we gain.

So I had a look at the list and have given my thoughts in maybe what our plan is to correct it.

Lennon- Different player then Houli but could be just as effective. What he lacks in pace, he can make up with ball movement. Why run 60 meters and kick it 30 when you can run 30 and kick it 60. Still a kid with a stack to learn but he has the size and ability IMO to be a really good quality defensive weapon

Hunt- He has played a tagging and mid role at the cats. Good defensive work with good speed. Could actually be a clone to Houli and may very well complement each other but does he have the tank ?

Conca - IMO, he has the talent. He is not slow, more medium paced, can at times make the odd wrong choice but even though he has not shown it often recently as a junior he was elite in getting in and out of traffic to allow him to seemingly burst from a pack to kick it lace out....my smokey.

Knights- Here is a player IMO I think could be a real weapon if he stays fit. Smart, can read the play and has a disposal that you would bet your mortgage on to hit a fellow team mate. Just knows how to create space for himself. He has limited speed but will that hinder him to much ? IMO worth a crack.

Anyone else ? IMO what killed us, was our run. Shut down Houli who creates and we struggle, we need to correct it and have we done enough work to do so ?

Clone Lids

 

[Tiger Toffee]

Yeah I get that but what if Houli went down, who replaces him that adds the same value to our list ?

Conca or McDonough, they have the ability to leave their opponent and set up through the guts or even Flossy, also don't under estimate Batch filling that role to a lesser degree if we got desperate due to injuries.

 

[SplintWhisky]

I personally think you missed out on an important player that is down there.

Vlaustin
I think with his leadership and attack on the ball he could do a Hodge type roll for us. Houli is good at running the ball out with speed but I only think we need on player with that quality.

I Think a combo of Houli, Vlaustin and Lennon would be enough to drag the ball out of our back line. The main attacking force I think we have to look at is our wings and half forwards. As you said above knights would be great to have as a high half forward with Lids. We also have ellis on the wing who also aids in driving the ball our

 

[Tiger71]

I personally think you missed out on an important player that is down there.

Vlaustin
I think with his leadership and attack on the ball he could do a Hodge type roll for us. Houli is good at running the ball out with speed but I only think we need on player with that quality.

I Think a combo of Houli, Vlaustin and Lennon would be enough to drag the ball out of our back line. The main attacking force I think we have to look at is our wings and half forwards. As you said above knights would be great to have as a high half forward with Lids. We also have ellis on the wing who also aids in driving the ball our

Yeah good point. I just hoping he plays more midfield as we need more leadership around the stoppages and vlaus provides that.

 

[johnno77]

From the players listed in the OP:

Lennon: Promising start to the year. Another 2 pre-season games like that and he's a good chance to take the role.

Hunt: Sounds like they'll be playing him off the wing. Maybe if that fails. Lade said that his tank isn't far behind Ellis and that he was never given a chance at Geelong to play anything other than a negating player.

Conca: If fit and in form, much rather him in the guts.

Knights: If fit and in form, much rather him forward.

Of the others, I'd be going with Vlaustin. Makes good decisions under pressure, brave and I think in our top 2-3 tacklers at the club.

And Batchelor. He finished last year well and from the training sessions I've seen, he's determined to stay in the team and make his mark.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Imo only a fit Lids and a fit Conca could take over from Bacher if he blows an o ring.

Madonna is too short for that role as proven last year and doesn't can't run all day and Vlaustin will already be down there or hopefully in the middle.

The players coming through that could step up are Lennon , McIntosh , possibly Dea and Drummond but they are all raw and that is why the coaching staff was crazy not to get games into McIntosh last year against the Saints , Brisbane and GWS before he got injured. It's not gifting games its preparing them for the next step.

If Houli goes down if be taping Conca on the shoulder and telling him he's there until the beard is back. I'd be getting as many games as possible into McIntosh and Drummond against the weaker teams incase this scenario eventuates.

 

[Tigers Jaw]

I've thought before the half back line needs a tad more class. The number of times i've sat on the end of my couch biting my fingernails raw when we kick it out from fullback, always half expecting a turnover. It would be real step up to see some uncontested marking and then some speed out of the half back line. My fingernails would appreciate it too

 

[Michaels]

This ties back into why I reckon suckling is a smokey as a player we might target in the off season.

 

[theflea]

I think the idea of another ball runner kicker is a good idea, but it also is predicated on the players up field getting into space to allow this kick to be executed. I think this is the skill that never gets recognised when we talk about the hawks and their kicking.

 

[Tigerforlife78]

Clone Lids

Can you make a couple of Richo clones for the forward line while your at it?

 

[SplintWhisky]

I think the idea of another ball runner kicker is a good idea, but it also is predicated on the players up field getting into space to allow this kick to be executed. I think this is the skill that never gets recognised when we talk about the hawks and their kicking.

You're completely right. The hawks attacking players run into the right positions to make the kicking look good. Suckling, Smith, bruest and the rest a good examples of this.

Although our strengths in our game is different if some of our players could find the space some of the hawks do we would be lethal

 

[NZ_Tiger]

Lids back is the most obvious solution and the one I'd think we could go with. I think Chris Knights could make up for some of ids lost offense.

 

[wart101]

This post on the Bach thread got me thinking. So figured ill air my thoughts and get your input

IMO we have done a stack of work and went through a lot of pain developing the back 6 we have. One of our main weakness was simply the monster forwards used to rip us a new one. It looks like a Fit Astbury and a developing Elton, will go a long way to address it. Thats great but I believe we have a weakness thats even more damaging and that is that offensive half back that can run all day.

We have Houli and as the simple poster I quoted above noted ( which surprised me, he noticed it as he normally is nose deep into his bong) when Houli does not play, our run drys up and we more often lose. We then tried putting lids there but that again was robbing peter to pay Paul, not actually fixing this issue as we lose more then what we gain.

So I had a look at the list and have given my thoughts in maybe what our plan is to correct it.

Lennon- Different player then Houli but could be just as effective. What he lacks in pace, he can make up with ball movement. Why run 60 meters and kick it 30 when you can run 30 and kick it 60. Still a kid with a stack to learn but he has the size and ability IMO to be a really good quality defensive weapon

Hunt- He has played a tagging and mid role at the cats. Good defensive work with good speed. Could actually be a clone to Houli and may very well complement each other but does he have the tank ?

Conca - IMO, he has the talent. He is not slow, more medium paced, can at times make the odd wrong choice but even though he has not shown it often recently as a junior he was elite in getting in and out of traffic to allow him to seemingly burst from a pack to kick it lace out....my smokey.

Knights- Here is a player IMO I think could be a real weapon if he stays fit. Smart, can read the play and has a disposal that you would bet your mortgage on to hit a fellow team mate. Just knows how to create space for himself. He has limited speed but will that hinder him to much ? IMO worth a crack.

Anyone else ? IMO what killed us, was our run. Shut down Houli who creates and we struggle, we need to correct it and have we done enough work to do so ?

i think we addressed it with the new recruits but they take time -obviously, i think it will still be a problem to a lesser extent this year because we have addressed it with strategy also but next year we need to recruit more outside speedsters.

 

[wart101]

From the players listed in the OP:

Lennon: Promising start to the year. Another 2 pre-season games like that and he's a good chance to take the role.

Hunt: Sounds like they'll be playing him off the wing. Maybe if that fails. Lade said that his tank isn't far behind Ellis and that he was never given a chance at Geelong to play anything other than a negating player.

Conca: If fit and in form, much rather him in the guts.

Knights: If fit and in form, much rather him forward.

Of the others, I'd be going with Vlaustin. Makes good decisions under pressure, brave and I think in our top 2-3 tacklers at the club.

And Batchelor. He finished last year well and from the training sessions I've seen, he's determined to stay in the team and make his mark.

I hope you are right about batch because i really liked him in the 2012 team but since then he has just looked out of place IMO and last year wasn't convincing for me either.

 

[thegrach]

I think with Morris moving forward we probably have a couple of openings down back, and we can hopefully replace him with someone who has better foot skills.

 

[Tiger Claw]

Lids back is the most obvious solution and the one I'd think we could go with. I think Chris Knights could make up for some of ids lost offense.

But if out target is goals then surely Lids is best up forward?

Need to forget the past and anticipate the future even if that is only 2015.

If we are reduced again to shifting the knowns into roles then I don't see how we have progressed.

 

[Tango67]

batch is just a dull negating type, HBF is where most attacks start from, we need someone with height to take a mark, speed and endurance to run it out and skills to release it... don't think batch has any of that but he is mature and that probably gets him a few games start... I would be playing all of Vlas, Lennon, Hunt, Conca before Batch at HBF alternatively you send Lids back there and use Dusty and Knights at HFF?

 

[NZ_Tiger]

But if out target is goals then surely Lids is best up forward?

Need to forget the past and anticipate the future even if that is only 2015.

If we are reduced again to shifting the knowns into roles then I don't see how we have progressed.

Don't agree. Simply because we don't have the depth in elite kicks who are defensively sound, off a back flank doesn't mean we haven't progressed.

 

[NZ_Tiger]

batch is just a dull negating type, HBF is where most attacks start from, we need someone with height to take a mark, speed and endurance to run it out and skills to release it... don't think batch has any of that but he is mature and that probably gets him a few games start... I would be playing all of Vlas, Lennon, Hunt, Conca before Batch at HBF alternatively you send Lids back there and use Dusty and Knights at HFF?

Batchelor was pretty attacking in his first year but was scored heavily against the other way. Now he seems a fairly vanilla third tall, so it will be interesting to see if we release him to play more an attacking role again and also whether he has improved much since his first year.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

Well hopefully this season Newman will rarely play and Morris if he does play will be up forward. So seeing as those two offered little to no run out of backline last season I think we can expect their replacements too. Although i'm not sure who will be replacing those two but I'll take a guess that Lennon and Dea will. Which those two in the magoos have shown that they can run, carry and distribute by foot and hopefully can replicate that if given a seniors game. That will leave us with Dea, Lennon, Batch, Houli and Vlastuin to create run out of the backline.

Another thing that should be noted that you failed to mention Tiger71 is we were missing Rance in the first half of last season and despite the fact that his job is tasked with shutting down the opposition he remains to be one of the better rebounding defenders in the AFL.

 

[Livonski]

Imo only a fit Lids and a fit Conca could take over from Bacher if he blows an o ring.

Madonna is too short for that role as proven last year and doesn't can't run all day and Vlaustin will already be down there or hopefully in the middle.

The players coming through that could step up are Lennon , McIntosh , possibly Dea and Drummond but they are all raw and that is why the coaching staff was crazy not to get games into McIntosh last year against the Saints , Brisbane and GWS before he got injured. It's not gifting games its preparing them for the next step.

If Houli goes down if be taping Conca on the shoulder and telling him he's there until the beard is back. I'd be getting as many games as possible into McIntosh and Drummond against the weaker teams incase this scenario eventuates.

3/4 like

 

[sregit]

Well hopefully this season Newman will rarely play and Morris if he does play will be up forward. So seeing as those two offered little to no run out of backline last season I think we can expect their replacements too. Although i'm not sure who will be replacing those two but I'll take a guess that Lennon and Dea will. Which those two in the magoos have shown that they can run, carry and distribute by foot and hopefully can replicate that if given a seniors game. That will leave us with Dea, Lennon, Batch, Houli and Vlastuin to create run out of the backline.

Another thing that should be noted that you failed to mention Tiger71 is we were missing Rance in the first half of last season and despite the fact that his job is tasked with shutting down the opposition he remains to be one of the better rebounding defenders in the AFL.

I'd have to question your logic for including Dea, for of all the players mentioned this guy has shown the least. He has been like a rabbit in the headlights at senior level. I'd be prepared to give him rounds 2 - 4 and if he fails then piss him off. I think if he can't deliver in a short period of time then over and out for him.