Analysis This is the worst start in our 116-year VFL/AFL history

[Masotiger]

only consolation is in my time of following,51st year,there has never ever been anything remotely close to the injury crisis the club is facing and has faced these first 10 games,its beyond horrendous,never seen anythin & cant remember like it

Aside from the fact good old father time has rendered over a dozen of our premiership hero's redundant; of the list remaining, half of our starting 18 are injured!!

I've followed the Mighty Tigers slightly longer than you have, and whilst it's not pretty watching some of the garbage we have dished up over the last few weeks; I can honestly say I'm not worried. Although I'd like to see Yze get some c##t in him and publicly not accept the recent trash.

I well remember the stench of death around the club post the losing 1982 GF. Captain, VC and DVC all leaving. Trade wars with Collingwood. Rattling tins. Sacking more coaches. Stuck in amateurism whilst the rest of the clubs moved into the professional era. We were well and truly f'kd.

I don't feel that now. We are paying the price of success. The club is strong and well resourced. Give me 3 premierships followed by a period of mediocrity any day under the current rules around player selection.

The country and metropolitan zones each club had back in 1982 is no longer in place. Back then, clubs had sole access to players living in their zones. Strong clubs would supplement this with interstate recruits. Therefore, the strong could remain strong. Circa Richmond, Carlton, Hawthorn, etc.

Drafting has changed all that. Instead of drafting a Jason Horne-Francis, we get a Hugo Ralphsmith. Instead of a Harley Reid, we get a Thomson Dow!! Good luck!!

We need a couple of bottom 4 finishes with some top end draft picks (and pick well). We need to assist our kids with more mature bodies even if they're nothing special (eg, Young, Kozi, Miller, etc) until we no longer need them. We need to keep our quality players like Baker, Bolton, Balta, etc.

Above all, we need to keep buying our membership to support our club.

We will be back, I have absolutely no doubt.

 

[Bird Man]

Aside from the fact good old father time has rendered over a dozen of our premiership hero's redundant; of the list remaining, half of our starting 18 are injured!!

I've followed the Mighty Tigers slightly longer than you have, and whilst it's not pretty watching some of the garbage we have dished up over the last few weeks; I can honestly say I'm not worried. Although I'd like to see Yze get some c##t in him and publicly not accept the recent trash.

I well remember the stench of death around the club post the losing 1982 GF. Captain, VC and DVC all leaving. Trade wars with Collingwood. Rattling tins. Sacking more coaches. Stuck in amateurism whilst the rest of the clubs moved into the professional era. We were well and truly f'kd.

I don't feel that now. We are paying the price of success. The club is strong and well resourced. Give me 3 premierships followed by a period of mediocrity any day under the current rules around player selection.

The country and metropolitan zones each club had back in 1982 is no longer in place. Back then, clubs had sole access to players living in their zones. Strong clubs would supplement this with interstate recruits. Therefore, the strong could remain strong. Circa Richmond, Carlton, Hawthorn, etc.

Drafting has changed all that. Instead of drafting a Jason Horne-Francis, we get a Hugo Ralphsmith. Instead of a Harley Reid, we get a Thomson Dow!! Good luck!!

We need a couple of bottom 4 finishes with some top end draft picks (and pick well). We need to assist our kids with more mature bodies even if they're nothing special (eg, Young, Kozi, Miller, etc) until we no longer need them. We need to keep our quality players like Baker, Bolton, Balta, etc.

Above all, we need to keep buying our membership to support our club.

We will be back, I have absolutely no doubt.

what about Geelong and the swans? why can't we remain competitive and develop kids/ recruit high-end talent?

Every team should have the capacity to be competitive. Our football department got it badly wrong and we are paying the price.... not because we won premierships therefore we must go down.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Here's a sad and sobering stat:

If you were to gather all Richmond Round 10 win-loss + percentage records from our very first season in 1908 until now, our Round 10 record in 2024 would rank last. Yep, in 116 years, we just witnessed our worst start to the season ever by seeing us go 1-9 with a percentage of 59.6%.

Awful seasons like the 2004, 2007, 2009, and 2010 seasons had better starts. We even had a better start in the 80s and 90s when we were a rabble.

How does that make you feel? For me, it kinda makes me sad given that this came 3 years after one of our most dominant eras ever. I'll be honest and say that I was nowhere near prepared to see us slump to our worst start in history only 4 years after our Premiership. I obviously understand why given our injury list, but still. Does this stat mean much? Not really. It is only 10 rounds into a 24-round season, but it's still a bit sad.

Having said that, if someone asked me whether I would go through our worst season ever just to see Richmond win a Premiership, then I would have said yes in a heartbeat. We've won three of them. Yes, many people around my age and younger have only lived through 6 seasons in which Richmond won a final, but those 4 seasons from 2017-2020 were top-tier. I hope we're back there soon.

For now though, we gotta get through this trough. I hope Yze survives this period, but I know that the industry can be rough on new coaches that start like this. Surely he gets at least a couple of seasons that aren't injury-marred.

In 2010, Dimma’s first season, we were 1-9 with a percentage of 61.6%, so only marginally superior. How’d the Dimma era finish up?


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[Coach_Required]

Here's something else we have never had such an injury list in our 116 year history either.

 

[Tackle Bag]

I have no doubt we will string a few wins together in the back half of the year just to make sure we don’t get a top3 pick.

We will likely end up with 3 first rounders and a very strong overall draft hand though, which will provide the injection of quality youth that we need.
We just need to see this tough time out and hopefully turn over some of the assistants and support staff in the off season.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

what about Geelong and the swans? why can't we remain competitive and develop kids/ recruit high-end talent?

Every team should have the capacity to be competitive. Our football department got it badly wrong and we are paying the price.... not because we won premierships therefore we must go down.

Swans?

See the bolded part below for the short story.

Slaughtered in 2014 GF beaten 2016 GF,

• well beaten in semi-finals 2015, 2017.
• destroyed in EF 2018
• 15th 2019
• 16th 2020
• Lost EF 20221
• Destroyed in GF 2022
• Beaten EF 2023

Swans current list has from their academy/zone:

Mills(pick 3,) Heeney(pick 2 bid, matched with pick 18,) Wickes(Cat B just because he was from NSW zone,) Blakey(pick 10,) Campbell(pick 5,) Gulden(pick 32,) Kirk(cat B,) Cleary(pick 24)

So their list currently carries 4 x top 10 picks, 1 x later rd 1 pick, 1 x rd 2 pick, and 2 other lower ranked freebies that no other club could recruit. That is on top of their other rd 1 picks picks Florent(13) Adams(12) Francis(6) Green(16) Grundy(18) Hayward(21) Konstanty(20) McDonald(4) Sheldrick(18) & a stack of rd 2 picks.

In comparison, our list has the following top 10 picks: Prestia, Martin, Vlastuin, Gibcus, Taranto, Hopper, and other rd 1 picks Lynch, D Rioli, Brown, Dow.

So from 2014 onwards when Heeney was recruited, Swans have drafted 11 players in the first round who are still on their list + 1 who was traded out(Stephens,) and another delisted(Ling.)

Richmond has drafted 6 rd 1 picks in that time who remain on the list(v 11 for Swans) and Higgins and Ellis were traded out, and Collier-Dawkins delisted. 9 in all(v 13 Swans.) Both clubs essentially also traded out 3 rd 1 picks in that period.

So you can see the benefit of their academy privileges there.

The real benefit is probably more simply expressed like this:

Swans have taken 6 picks in the top 10 in the last 10 drafts.

Richmond has taken 1, and traded 2 out(for players originally taken top 10 Prestia and Hopper.)

Top 5 picks it is Swans 5 v Richmond 0(highest pick 9.) Huge difference.

Still for all that, you would rather have our achievements than theirs during that period. We are 3-0 in GF's, they are 0-3.

 

[Lsta062]

In 2010, Dimma’s first season, we were 1-9 with a percentage of 61.6%, so only marginally superior. How’d the Dimma era finish up?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Really good!

But the only difference was that our rebuild pretty much already finished then. We had Rance, Cotchin, Dusty, Grimes, Edwards, Riewoldt, and Astbury already on the list.

This time though, I feel like our rebuild has barely started. I’ll be honest and say that I don’t think our recent draftees are the level of that group of youngsters we had.

 

[barracoutta]

the most major concern for my mind is that 9 of the top 25 kids next year are academy kids. its not a level picking field and we wont have access to all the top talent. Getting in the right kids is paramount!

 

[damnedn1ghtmare]

In 2010, Dimma’s first season, we were 1-9 with a percentage of 61.6%, so only marginally superior. How’d the Dimma era finish up?


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Except everyone knew from day one when Dimma took over what they wanted to achieve and had some sought to plan how they were going to achieve it, on and off field. And it still took 8 years.

When YZE is saying that we aren't in a rebuild yet and senior players are saying that "effort is there, we are just a bit off" after 2+ 90+ losses in a row, then it's clear that no one at the club at the moment has any idea on what we are doing and where we are at.

I think there's still people at the club who legitimately think we can challenge since we still have a lot of premiership players on the list, not realizing that most of them are well past their use by date.

We are in no mans land at the moment with no one leading us forward.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Except everyone knew from day one when Dimma took over what they wanted to achieve and had some sought to plan how they were going to achieve it, on and off field. And it still took 8 years.

When YZE is saying that we aren't in a rebuild yet and senior players are saying that "effort is there, we are just a bit off" after 2+ 90+ losses in a row, then it's clear that no one at the club at the moment has any idea on what we are doing and where we are at.

I think there's still people at the club who legitimately think we can challenge since we still have a lot of premiership players on the list, not realizing that most of them are well past their use by date.

We are in no mans land at the moment with no one leading us forward.

we have no available players lol, how are our own supporters not aware of this!? of course the effort is there. we've brought in our entire VFL team, literally. theyre expected to just plug and play and be a competitive side against teams with their best 23 out there who've been training a gameplan for years? yze's just not being a sook and laying it all on injuries.

 

[damnedn1ghtmare]

we have no available players lol, how are our own supporters not aware of this!? of course the effort is there. we've brought in our entire VFL team, literally. theyre expected to just plug and play and be a competitive side against teams with their best 23 out there who've been training a gameplan for years?

I don't think there would be any one expecting us to win any games with the injuries that we have.

But you can't say that there is effort after the game on the weekend. You can't say that most players are running their guts out and trying 100%. You don't lose by 119 if you put in effort. And then have players and the coach say they are "just a bit off and it's not a rebuild.."

Sorry, but that's just not the case. We are well off with effort and are clearly in a rebuild.

 

[barracoutta]

Except everyone knew from day one when Dimma took over what they wanted to achieve and had some sought to plan how they were going to achieve it, on and off field. And it still took 8 years.

When YZE is saying that we aren't in a rebuild yet and senior players are saying that "effort is there, we are just a bit off" after 2+ 90+ losses in a row, then it's clear that no one at the club at the moment has any idea on what we are doing and where we are at.

I think there's still people at the club who legitimately think we can challenge since we still have a lot of premiership players on the list, not realizing that most of them are well past their use by date.

We are in no mans land at the moment with no one leading us forward.

i think they know exactly where we are at, definitely not premiership contenders, even with a fully fit side.

put any team in the league on the park with only 3 fit players missing out and see how they struggle. lets not forget that there's probably players playing under duress due to our injuries!

up until the last 2 weeks we've been competitive at some stage in every game. its just now we've run out of cattle with players underdone and not match fit. confidence is completely down which means effort has dropped off!

it wasnt a fluke we beat the swans! who are now 2 games clear on top!

let me ask you a question! if we won at least 3 or 4 of those close games would we be further in no-mans land now then we are now? wouldnt it be hiding the true nature of where we actually are at? i think its a good wake up call!

it may be a god send that we are having these blowouts now as it truly reflects that we need to do some hard work at the recruiting table at least. let go some of these bystanders while they have some true value!

 

[Truetiger]

the way things have been, every other club would be in the same position right now

If only the media and some of our supporters could see that.

 

[SplintWhisky]

what about Geelong and the swans? why can't we remain competitive and develop kids/ recruit high-end talent?

Every team should have the capacity to be competitive. Our football department got it badly wrong and we are paying the price.... not because we won premierships therefore we must go down.

Swans have the academies and Geelong has this weird lifestyle thing that can keep them topping up with older talent and they can burn through young talent to find the useful ones.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Really good!

But the only difference was that our rebuild pretty much already finished then. We had Rance, Cotchin, Dusty, Grimes, Edwards, Riewoldt, and Astbury already on the list.

This time though, I feel like our rebuild has barely started. I’ll be honest and say that I don’t think our recent draftees are the level of that group of youngsters we had.

I think both in 2010 and now, a key part of the list build was completed, it was just a different part in each case.

In 2010 we had gun mids and key defenders and forward in place, but beside those only probably Newman, Grimes, King who were good enough to fill other roles in a successful team.

Players 27yo or under 2010 good enough to play in successful teams if the side developed fast enough...


2010 mids Deledio, Cotchin, Edwards, Martin, Jackson, Foley.

2010 kpp's Rance, Astbury, Riewoldt.

2010 Other roles Newman, Grimes, King.

At that point the bolded players were still anything from 1-5 years off being anything like the players they would become. But I can see only 12 players on that list who were young enough and good enough to play in successful teams of the future. And before we were successful, attrition had taken care of Deledio, Tuck, Jackson, Foley, Newman and King. So only 7 remained to see any real success. 3 KPP's and 3 midfielders, and one gun hybrid defender. 5 of them became industry leading types and Edwards not too far below that level.

2024 list players 27 and under good enough to play roles in successful teams of the future:

2024 mids Hopper, Taranto, Bolton, Ross? Sonsie? McAuliffe?

2024 KPP's Balta, Gibcus, Miller/Young, Lefau?

2024 Other roles D Rioli, Baker, J Graham, Mansell, Ryan? Trezise? M Rioli, Banks, Brown, Clarke?, Campbell


Bolded are players who have shown already or are tracking as though they can be around industry leading level in their roles.

So we probably have 14 players on our list 27 or younger now who look good enough to play in successful teams of the future. And another 7 question marks about whether they will be good enough, of which let's say 3 turn out good enough, giving us 16-17.

We can see from the earlier group we will see some attrition, losing some players in trades, injury induced early retirements or that just get too old before we are truly successful. But where we had 6 players make it through to ultimate success from the 2010 list, we might have more like about 8 likely to on the 2024 list if we get good enough.

A big difference is the 2010 group of players who made it through to success was they were gun mids or key position players. This time it is much more evenly distributed across different roles in the team. We have a lot more shaping to be better pockets, flankers and wingers on our current list.

Another difference is in the 28yo+ contingent.

28yo+ in 2010

35yo Richardson
31yo Cousins, Simmonds
28yo Tuck

4 players total, one of who was 35 and another an unreformed junkie.

28yo+ in 2024

32yo Martin, Grimes, Pickett
31yo Prestia, Lynch, Broad(and Naismith)
30yo McIntosh, Vlastuin
29yo Nankervis
28yo Short

10 multiple Premiership players, at least half of which are likely capable of contributing strongly for a couple of years yet, both as players and leaders. We simply did not have that layer of leadership and experience in 2010. So whereas we had zero chance of getting anywhere good in 2010-11-12, with a decent run we would still be a chance to do something in 2025-26.

What we desperately need is some(like about 3) really high quality mids and key position players. At least a couple of them champions up with the best in their positions in the AFL. Think Walsh, Daicos, Reid, Darcy, Curnow we need to find our version of this level of player. We are likely to have 4-5 rd 1 picks + a crack at some free agents in the next 2 off seasons. We need to have very strong long term outcomes from around half of those.

 

[Muddiemoose]

I think both in 2010 and now, a key part of the list build was completed, it was just a different part in each case.

In 2010 we had gun mids and key defenders and forward in place, but beside those only probably Newman, Grimes, King who were good enough to fill other roles in a successful team.

Players 27yo or under 2010 good enough to play in successful teams if the side developed fast enough...


2010 mids Deledio, Cotchin, Edwards, Martin, Jackson, Foley.

2010 kpp's Rance, Astbury, Riewoldt.

2010 Other roles Newman, Grimes, King.

At that point the bolded players were still anything from 1-5 years off being anything like the players they would become. But I can see only 12 players on that list who were young enough and good enough to play in successful teams of the future. And before we were successful, attrition had taken care of Deledio, Tuck, Jackson, Foley, Newman and King. So only 7 remained to see any real success. 3 KPP's and 3 midfielders, and one gun hybrid defender. 5 of them became industry leading types and Edwards not too far below that level.

2024 list players 27 and under good enough to play roles in successful teams of the future:

2024 mids Hopper, Taranto, Bolton, Ross? Sonsie? McAuliffe?

2024 KPP's Balta, Gibcus, Miller/Young, Lefau?

2024 Other roles D Rioli, Baker, J Graham, Mansell, Ryan? Trezise? M Rioli, Banks, Brown, Clarke?, Campbell


Bolded are players who have shown already or are tracking as though they can be around industry leading level in their roles.

So we probably have 14 players on our list 27 or younger now who look good enough to play in successful teams of the future. And another 7 question marks about whether they will be good enough, of which let's say 3 turn out good enough, giving us 16-17.

We can see from the earlier group we will see some attrition, losing some players in trades, injury induced early retirements or that just get too old before we are truly successful. But where we had 6 players make it through to ultimate success from the 2010 list, we might have more like about 8 likely to on the 2024 list if we get good enough.

A big difference is the 2010 group of players who made it through to success was they were gun mids or key position players. This time it is much more evenly distributed across different roles in the team. We have a lot more shaping to be better pockets, flankers and wingers on our current list.

Another difference is in the 28yo+ contingent.

28yo+ in 2010

35yo Richardson
31yo Cousins, Simmonds
28yo Tuck

4 players total, one of who was 35 and another an unreformed junkie.

28yo+ in 2024

32yo Martin, Grimes, Pickett
31yo Prestia, Lynch, Broad(and Naismith)
30yo McIntosh, Vlastuin
29yo Nankervis
28yo Short

10 multiple Premiership players, at least half of which are likely capable of contributing strongly for a couple of years yet, both as players and leaders. We simply did not have that layer of leadership and experience in 2010. So whereas we had zero chance of getting anywhere good in 2010-11-12, with a decent run we would still be a chance to do something in 2025-26.

What we desperately need is some(like about 3) really high quality mids and key position players. At least a couple of them champions up with the best in their positions in the AFL. Think Walsh, Daicos, Reid, Darcy, Curnow we need to find our version of this level of player. We are likely to have 4-5 rd 1 picks + a crack at some free agents in the next 2 off seasons. We need to have very strong long term outcomes from around half of those.

The entire landscape of player movement has also changed a lot since 2010 free agency starting in 2012 and general player movement a lot more common

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The entire landscape of player movement has also changed a lot since 2010 free agency starting in 2012 and general player movement a lot more common

This is very true and clubs can really only carry 5-6 marquee salary players. So the lists with more elite talented players than that will eventually see some of them squeezed out to other clubs, like us for eg.

 

[barracoutta]

This is very true and clubs can really only carry 5-6 marquee salary player. So the lists with more elite talented players than that will eventually see some of them squeezed out to other clubs, like us for eg.

I can honestly say that we haven't really lost anything - i look at the players who we've moved on and with a couple of exceptions(Butler, Stengle and Higgins) none have really gone on to excel at their destinations!

Nyuon - dwelling in the ressies
Naish - delisted by WC
Coleman-Jones - back-up ruckman at best
Higgins - hot and cold but still very serviceable
Stengle - hot and cold too - would still be handy
Soldo - injury prone
Butler - had one outstanding year - injuries creeping in
Chol - serviceable but hot and cold
Markov - taken a long time to develop since leaving but now a fringe player in a good team
Ellis - cost too much to keep and now on the outer at suns

so really only Ellis was squeezed others left for opportunity and if we had all these on our list still i'm not sure we would be that much better off!

 

[damnedn1ghtmare]

i think they know exactly where we are at, definitely not premiership contenders, even with a fully fit side.

put any team in the league on the park with only 3 fit players missing out and see how they struggle. lets not forget that there's probably players playing under duress due to our injuries!

up until the last 2 weeks we've been competitive at some stage in every game. its just now we've run out of cattle with players underdone and not match fit. confidence is completely down which means effort has dropped off!

it wasnt a fluke we beat the swans! who are now 2 games clear on top!

let me ask you a question! if we won at least 3 or 4 of those close games would we be further in no-mans land now then we are now? wouldnt it be hiding the true nature of where we actually are at? i think its a good wake up call!

it may be a god send that we are having these blowouts now as it truly reflects that we need to do some hard work at the recruiting table at least. let go some of these bystanders while they have some true value!

I understand with all the injuries we have, we are not going to be winning any games anytime soon.


What I don't understand is how the coach is coming out and saying we are not in rebuild and that he cannot fault effort.

Effort is the one thing you can constantly ask for, regardless of who is out on the field. Yes, no one with our injuries would win a game. Yes, we have a lot of young players out there. Yes, we have been competitive for 5 games and nearly pinched another game or two.

But can you say that every player, particularly senior players who should be leading the club, has given 100% over the past 2 weeks?

Vlas, Balta and majority of the younger players I would say are having a crack. Can't say the same about the others.

As I said, 119 losses don't happen when you are giving 100%. A loss was going to happen. No supporter would have been expecting a win over the weekend.


91 point losses don't happen if you give 100%. Probably weren't going to win that game either, but we have been no where near competitive over the past fortnight and I don't expect us to do any better for the next 3 games.

 

[barracoutta]

I understand with all the injuries we have, we are not going to be winning any games anytime soon.


What I don't understand is how the coach is coming out and saying we are not in rebuild and that he cannot fault effort.

Effort is the one thing you can constantly ask for, regardless of who is out on the field. Yes, no one with our injuries would win a game. Yes, we have a lot of young players out there. Yes, we have been competitive for 5 games and nearly pinched another game or two.

But can you say that every player, particularly senior players who should be leading the club, has given 100% over the past 2 weeks?

Vlas, Balta and majority of the younger players I would say are having a crack. Can't say the same about the others.

As I said, 119 losses don't happen when you are giving 100%. A loss was going to happen. No supporter would have been expecting a win over the weekend.


91 point losses don't happen if you give 100%. Probably weren't going to win that game either, but we have been no where near competitive over the past fortnight and I don't expect us to do any better for the next 3 games.

yep very valid about the coach - but im an older generation bloke. while i have small inkling how this generation of players think Yze may well be more in touch with it and hence the message is different from what we expect! but he also has to know that the message isn't appealing to the supporters either especially of our generation. He isn't catering for us at the moment and media love it and are currently poking that string!!

You're 100% correct about Vlaustin! he is having a deadset crack and should have been captain - you can at least see his physical frustration on the field. especially witrh cheating umpires!!

i'm not a list manager but you can see which players deserve to be around because in hard times people true natures come out! and i have seen so many piss weak efforts from senior players this year its not funny!

from ******s who dont know where the oppositions heads are or piss weak efforts of going to ground or being pushed out of contests

 

[damnedn1ghtmare]

yep very valid about the coach - but im an older generation bloke. while i have small inkling how this generation of players think Yze may well be more in touch with it and hence the message is different from what we expect! but he also has to know that the message isn't appealing to the supporters either especially of our generation. He isn't catering for us at the moment and media love it and are currently poking that string!!

You're 100% correct about Vlaustin! he is having a deadset crack and should have been captain - you can at least see his physical frustration on the field. especially witrh cheating umpires!!

i'm not a list manager but you can see which players deserve to be around because in hard times people true natures come out! and i have seen so many piss weak efforts from senior players this year its not funny!

from *s who dont know where the oppositions heads are or piss weak efforts of going to ground or being pushed out of contests

All I want from the club is to tell us exactly what they are doing.

If they think that they can be competitive and build on the list they have, tell us.
If they think we need a complete clean out. Tell us.
Right now we are getting conflicting messages from the coach, the effort being put in and the players themselves.


But, I think anyone can see that we need to go down the path of a clean out. Most of our senior players will be done at the end of the year (Dusty, Prestia, Grimes.) or will be done within the next 2-3 years. We went all in on Tarrwnto and Hopper and it has backfired. We tried to go down the path of Geelong in trying to be competitive every year and being a destination club and unfortunately ended up as WCE. Instead of being stubborn and trying to go down that path still, let's just accept reality and face that we need to do a clean out. Tell us supporters and say "This is our plan for the next decade (Ala Gale 2010)"

Right now, I have no idea what we are trying to achieve and have no idea what path we are going to take going into the future because right now, the coach is saying that we aren't in a rebuild. But what does that mean? We aren't going to win the flag in the next few seasons regardless if we have our best 22 or not. That's just fact.

Yes, we probably will end up with some high draft picks. But does that mean we will use them, or trade them like we did with Tarranto and Hopper, because the club thinks we can be competitive? I have no idea and can't get excited about getting draft picks if I don't know what the club is planning to do for the future. All clubs need to accept they need to be more transparent in this day and age because people do not just put blind faith in any sought of management these days unless they are part of management themselves.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

I don't think there would be any one expecting us to win any games with the injuries that we have.

But you can't say that there is effort after the game on the weekend. You can't say that most players are running their guts out and trying 100%. You don't lose by 119 if you put in effort. And then have players and the coach say they are "just a bit off and it's not a rebuild.."

Sorry, but that's just not the case. We are well off with effort and are clearly in a rebuild.

I think the efforts there, there's just no synergy because the team's a revolving door of injuries and kids coming in. There's no pressure because there's a bunch of kids running around like headless chook and no leadership because all our senior players are dead. Nank has nfi how to captain.
Clearly Yze is taking the piss saying were just a bit off and need to tweak a few things, it's patently obvious to all we're destroyed with injuries, yet the media keeps asking dumb questions like 'how are you going to turn it around?' as if the only answer isn't 'by getting players back.'
You absolutely do get smashed by 100 if you're 'having a crack' but you haven't got the cattle. Thats why divisions exist in sport.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Really good!

But the only difference was that our rebuild pretty much already finished then. We had Rance, Cotchin, Dusty, Grimes, Edwards, Riewoldt, and Astbury already on the list.

This time though, I feel like our rebuild has barely started. I’ll be honest and say that I don’t think our recent draftees are the level of that group of youngsters we had.

But this is only in hindsight. Edwards was really average in his first 50-games, and didn’t ‘pop’ as a player until 2012. Astbury was a newbie in 2010, then played 24-games from 2011-2015. Rance was very average in his first couple of seasons, including 2010. Grimes played 1 game in 2010, and just 26 from 2010-13.

So yes we had Riewoldt, Cotchin and Dusty as what looked like bonafide stars in the making during 2010, but that’s all. Nobody else ‘at that time’ looked like becoming what they did.

But our list in 2010 looked horrible overall. Media were saying we’d need AFL assistance to get out of the depths of hell. Only hindsight tells us many of those ‘spuds’ turned into Flag superstars.


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[damnedn1ghtmare]

I think the efforts there, there's just no synergy because the team's a revolving door of injuries and kids coming in. There's no pressure because there's a bunch of kids running around like headless chook and no leadership because all our senior players are dead. Nank has nfi how to captain.
Clearly Yze is taking the piss saying were just a bit off and need to tweak a few things, it's patently obvious to all we're destroyed with injuries, yet the media keeps asking dumb questions like 'how are you going to turn it around?' as if the only answer isn't 'by getting players back.'
You absolutely do get smashed by 100 if you're 'having a crack' but you haven't got the cattle. Thats why divisions exist in sport.

But how can you run around like headless chooks at a professional level?
When WCE were starting the start of their horror run, they had a ton of injuries as well. Not quite as bad as us, but it was quite bad. Everyone said that they won't be as bad once they get players back.

Players came back and they didn't get any better. They have had 2-3 years of being terrible and no where near the level they need to be. It's taken a once in a lifetime superstar number 1 draft pick to raise them from the grave.

100 point losses happen. I understand that. But for 2 weeks in a row? And the 2nd loss was worse than the first? No. That's purely effort and not buying into wanting to work hard.

Work hard and the loss is 40 points. Not 119.

 

[Lsta062]

But this is only in hindsight. Edwards was really average in his first 50-games, and didn’t ‘pop’ as a player until 2012. Astbury was a newbie in 2010, then played 24-games from 2011-2015. Rance was very average in his first couple of seasons, including 2010. Grimes played 1 game in 2010, and just 26 from 2010-13.

So yes we had Riewoldt, Cotchin and Dusty as what looked like bonafide stars in the making during 2010, but that’s all. Nobody else ‘at that time’ looked like becoming what they did.

But our list in 2010 looked horrible overall. Media were saying we’d need AFL assistance to get out of the depths of hell. Only hindsight tells us many of those ‘spuds’ turned into Flag superstars.


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OK I accept that. Rance wasn’t looking very good early on from memory. Didn’t consider Edwards as much either.

I’ve become pretty pessimistic about our current group of youth. Not about them making it, but them becoming bonafide stars as you put it.

I only really see it with McAuliffe right now. With Riewoldt, Dusty, and Cotchin, it was fairly obvious from the beginning. So I think we lack that at least compared to 2010. But hopefully the next couple of drafts address it. We are desperate for young star-power