- Oct 2, 2019
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List Mgmt. Hawk's List Management 2023
- Thread starter chopflop
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No I don't,
Ned is in front for now, but also feel Meek will continue to develop into a handy AFL ruck. Both need to hold more marks but that should come with more confidence and experience. It is a good position to be in ATM.
streetspirit
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In line with the above few comments, we need to only cut where we already have quite a bit of depth and where there is no further scope for improvement.
Can only see a few delisting candidates, and even then most will be dependent on who goes in and out after trade period e.g. scope for Jeka to stay on if Frost gets a bite elsewhere.
Will be pretty sure some of the depth however will nevertheless be 'reclassified' via delisting and re-rooking like Moore and Mitchell before them. If nothing else just to promote some of our fairly highly credentialed Cat A rookies.
Can only see a few delisting candidates, and even then most will be dependent on who goes in and out after trade period e.g. scope for Jeka to stay on if Frost gets a bite elsewhere.
Will be pretty sure some of the depth however will nevertheless be 'reclassified' via delisting and re-rooking like Moore and Mitchell before them. If nothing else just to promote some of our fairly highly credentialed Cat A rookies.
sorry SteveH, I was referring to Ned Reeves
- Oct 1, 2014
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I thought it was OK, too. I suspect much comes from these forums. Only one I disagreed with was Kosi, he's one to keep as he has been doing well as a true Foward/ruck. They are a bit like allrounders in cricket, you can get enormous value if they are effective especially with team balance (2 rucks doesn't work well for us) however, they suffer from the problem of many all rounders, ie they cant bat or bowl well enough. Kosi has the potential to be a genuine forward and his ruck craft hasn't looked too bad.
It might be closer to the truth to say they didn’t expect Worps and Nash to play as well as they have and thought Stephens might displace one of them at some point. Stephens may have met their expectations but the other two have exceeded theirs and while they play at this level, Stephens is unlikely to force his way into the team. The fact he can’t get a game is both a good and bad outcome I guess. If he was getting a game he’d need to be playing at Newc-level which would have been fantastic. The face that he isn’t is the downside I suppose. But the fact that he can’t get passed the other two shows how well they are going so that’s the upside.
CaptainWorpedo
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No inside info just my thoughts on the changes coming.
An I am also wondering if O’Hara maybe released? Seems like he has had some issues with concussions in 2023.
* Gone or LTI 2024 Wingard
Out: Lynch (R), Bramble, Morris, Jeka, Long.
Potential trade out:
Frost, Brockman,
An I am also wondering if O’Hara maybe released? Seems like he has had some issues with concussions in 2023.
* Gone or LTI 2024 Wingard
Out: Lynch (R), Bramble, Morris, Jeka, Long.
Potential trade out:
Frost, Brockman,
So Meek was drafted as a backup ruck?
I believe it was envisaged that he and Reeves would ruck in tandem, which as we know didn’t work out, so I’m calling it a bust. I believe Ramsden will surpass Meek next year, we’ll just have to wait and see.
DogDaySonny
Club Legend
- May 4, 2023
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I’m jumping in at the end of this thread so someone most likely already commented on the impact of Wingard’s injury on Brockman’s future with Hawthorn. Brockman has a lot of incentive to stay with the Hawks now rather than return to the west. I like the cut of his jib so I hope we can make some lemonade from this unfortunate Wingardian lemon.
Kosi is in the process of saving his career. Ryan's presence really seems to have helped and takes the pressure off him as a ruck/fwd. He has been good and most importantly - accurate - this time round so well done to him. Goes to show how important structure is.. imagine when Ryan/Kosi/Lewis can spend more time working with & around each other.. like most top team KPF have done. It will potentially be a game-changer if we don't need to spend top draft currency on tall forwards.
And we definitely need Meek as well...rucks by nature of their size & position aren't able to play every game. Critical to have a good backup and with Lynch now retired
And we definitely need Meek as well...rucks by nature of their size & position aren't able to play every game. Critical to have a good backup and with Lynch now retired
Not sure that lack of opportunity would be a factor in Brocky going back to WA, but a post that includes the phrase 'Wingardian lemon' is a worthy contribution to any thread! Excellent work!
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I don’t think the club knew who was going to be the number 1 ruck so it made sense at the time and if Ned goes down we will be very happy to have a backup.
wahawk
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CaptainWorpedo
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I’d say you are just plan rude ….. Again my own thoughts.
wahawk
Norm Smith Medallist
Not rude at all moose
Roger Rogerson
Brownlow Medallist
There is no issue if Stephens plays more VFL than AFL for the next 2 or so seasons provided he is developing the way Hawthorn want him to. And if you read the box hill summaries each week you will see they are making him learn secondary roles which clearly Geelong had not put time into with him. We did it with Meek on the weekend too who played fwd - is he a failure too?
Not all players develop at the same rate and as a result the team composition will constantly change through form and injury. Finn was being called for delisting 2 months ago. And as we have seen with Worpel's career, not all players can sustain form - let's hope what he has produced this season isn't due to him being in a contract year and he reverts back to a lower output. I agree at the moment Cooper is behind others who are having career best seasons (who are a number of years ahead of him development-wise) and we have given developing youngsters games ahead of him but there is nothing to say he can't jump ahead of some of them in the next few seasons after being in our system.
Point is you need to have a group of developing players on your list especially midfielders and Stephens is one that has shown some strong VFL form - albeit patchy. We know his strengths and having someone on the list that can step into the middle - through either form or opportunity - is a good thing for our list. Our side will look different again in 2-3 years time and by then if he is still warranting a spot on the list he will have more strings to his bow and be better equipped for the top level. It is not bust after 1 season at a new club that has had a very clean bill of health.
Look at the games that Bramble and Morrison have been given this season and you can see with the likelihood of them not being around in 2024 opportunities will open up for the likes of Stephens to start getting regular exposure and then potentially pushing others out.
Think we need to think about the resilience of our midfield this year and the flow on impact on opportunities for ‘depth’ and/or young players like stephens, long, Mackenzie, hustwaite, etc.
Newk, day, nash and Worpel have played almost every week. Doesn’t give much scope for ward, cmac etc to increase midfield minutes, let alone the next tier.
This year has been unusually light for injuries - need to keep that in mind when assessing list depth, particularly in the midfield.
Newk, day, nash and Worpel have played almost every week. Doesn’t give much scope for ward, cmac etc to increase midfield minutes, let alone the next tier.
This year has been unusually light for injuries - need to keep that in mind when assessing list depth, particularly in the midfield.
sorry SteveH, I was referring to Ned Reeves
If you thought Nash was a big mid....Noodle is the next step in the evolution.
CONTRACTED
6. James Sicily Age: 28 Games: 132 (2023 games: 17) Contract ends: 2027
12. Will Day Age: 22 Games: 52 (2023 games: 19) Contract ends: 2027
2. Mitch Lewis Age: 24 Games: 66 (2023 games: 15) Contract: ends: 2026
3. Jai Newcombe Age: 22 Games: 50 (2023 games: 21) Contract ends: 2026
4. Jarman Impey Age: 28 Games: 170 (2023 games: 20) Contract ends: 2026
7. Ned Reeves Age: 24 Games: 36 (2023 games: 19) Contract ends: 2026
10. Karl Amon Age: 27 Games: 143 (2023 games: 19) Contract ends: 2026
13. Dylan Moore Age: 24 Games: 73 (2023 games: 21) Contract ends: 2026
28. Cam Mackenzie Age: 19 Games: 14 (2023 games: 14) Contract ends: 2026
5. James Worpel Age: 24 Games: 100 (2023 games: 21) Contract ends: 2025
25. Josh Ward Age: 19 Games: 28 (2023 games: 14) Contract ends: 2025
30. Sam Butler Age: 20 Games: 17 (2023 games: 8) Contract ends: 2025
31. Connor Macdonald Age: 20 Games: 39 (2023 games: 19) Contract ends: 2025
38. Max Ramsden Age: 20 Games: 1 (2023 games: 1) Contract ends: 2025
40. Seamus Mitchell Age: 21 Games: 14 (2023 games: 14) Contract ends: 2025
15 players tied up for next 2 years. Unless they want out, won't be going anywhere.
1. Harry Morrison Age: 24 Games: 89 (2023 games: 11) Contract ends: 2024
8. Sam Frost Age: 29 Games: 159 (2023 games: 18) Status: Contract ends: 2024
9. Changkuoth Jiath Age: 24 Games: 45 (2023 games: 8) Contract ends: 2024
11. Conor Nash Age: 25 Games: 71 (2023 games: 21) Contract ends: 2024
14. Jack Scrimshaw Age: 24 Games: 81 (2023 games: 14) Contract ends: 2024
15. Blake Hardwick Age: 26 Games: 145 (2023 games: Contract ends: 2024
17. Lloyd Meek Age: 25 Games: 30 (2023 games: 15) Contract ends: 2024
21. Cooper Stephens Age: 22 Games: 7 (2023 games: 0) Contract status: 2024
22. Luke Breust Age: 32 Games: 279 (2023 games: 19) Contract ends: 2024
24. Denver Grainger-Barras Age: 21 Games 27 (2023 games: 6) Contract ends: 2024
36. James Blanck Age: 22 Games: 22 (2023 games: 13) Contract ends: 2024
37. Josh Weddle Age: 19 Games: 15 (2023 games: 15) Contract ends: 2024
41. Joshua Bennetts Age: 18 Games: 0 (2023 games: 0) Contract ends: 2024
42. Bailey Macdonald Age: 19 Games: 2 (2023 games: 2) Status: Signed until 2024
43. Jack O’Sullivan Age: 18 Games: 0 (2023 games: 0) Contract ends: 2024
44. Henry Hustwaite Age: 19 Games: 0 (2023 games: 0) Status: Signed until 2024
45. Clay Tucker Age: 19 Games: 0 (2023 games: 0) Status: Signed until 2024
Honestly don't think any of these will have contracts torn up. Nash, Scrimshaw, Weddle likely to get a 3yr+ offer during 2024, whilst some might be invited to look for longer contracts elsewhere. Stephens will want a big 2024. Maybe one player traded out from this group.
OUT OF CONTRACT
16. Lachlan Bramble Age: 25 Games: 30 (2023 games: 11) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
18. Max Lynch Age: 24 Games: 11 (2023 games: 1) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
20. Chad Wingard Age: 30 Games: 218 (2023 games: 14) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
23. Jacob Koschitzke Age: 23 Games: 46 (2023 games: 10) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
26. Fergus Greene Age: 25 Games: 16 (2023 games: 11) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
27. Ned Long Age: 20 Games: 4 (2023 games: 3) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
29. Jai Serong Age: 20 Games: 3 (2023 games: 0) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
32. Finn Maginness Age: 22 Games: 30 (2023 games: 11) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
33. Tyler Brockman Age: 20 Games: 26 (2023 games: 15) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
34. Fionn O’Hara Age: 21 Games: 0 (2023 games: 0) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
35. Josh Morris Age: 21 Games: 15 (2023 games: 0) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
39. Emerson Jeka Age: 21 Games: 7 (2023 games: 0) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
46. Brandon Ryan Age: 25 Games: 2 (2023 games: 2) Contract ends: Out-of-contract
Wingard's injury throws a spanner in the works - do we delist and redraft as a rookie? He might decide he's had enough. Lynch already retired.
I don't think O'Hara has shown anything - 3 years is enough time. Similarly Morris has slipped losing his spot to faster alternatives. Sounds like Brockman has decided to go home, very unfortunate given Wingard's latest injury.
There's 3/4 spots before we start making harder calls.
Bramble, Long, Maginness - All have at least one AFL attribute, but feel one will go - likely Bramble due to age.
Kosi, Greene, Ryan - Greene was a nice idea, but perhaps just a (very) good VFL player. Kosi and Ryan have both shown flashes of AFL abilities.
Jeka, Serong - Jeka's hamstring at the worst possible time, unless Sam thinks he can unlock him I'd prefer Serong if I had to pick. Doubt we would lose them if we took the delist/rookie path.
Another 3 options from those groups give us 6+ changes.
If you thought Nash was a big mid....Noodle is the next step in the evolution.
Surely Maginness stays now. Imagine the horror of us turning up to a final in a year or two and finding him in oppo colours picking up Day or Newc!
Yardie
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Imagine if we could "loan" him out to other teams on short term contracts. Make a fortune!
Roger Rogerson
Brownlow Medallist
My only thought is that with a dominant midfield as shown at the weekend, he was able to get separation and take some strong marks. His last quarter was very good - prob his best quarter in his career. There were still moments that weren't up to scratch across the game. Pending the number of list changes and how we are managing talls, I wouldn't be against giving him a 1 year contract and seeing if he keeps improving as we do. But wont be surprised if he is moved on either.
Mopar Jason
Team Captain
I suspect if Kosi can reproduce the form he showed against the Dogs in the last two games he will be rewarded with at least another year
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