Autopsy Hawks vs Bunnies no more

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Geez the loss of Mitchell and Lewis has certainly hurt our onfield leadership.

Need more from the Big Rough.

 

[flinchfree]

I think we are all being over reactive about the loss. Lets not forget who was missing from the squad and the fact that the Pies have close to the best midfield in the competition. My focus is on how well we played in the first half. Knowing that this sort of performance is in the team gives me plenty of heart. Also all i can think about it how good Burton is going to be. It's really exciting. I think he is a genuine shot for Rising Star in a very good field (he's now 4th favourite at 8/1 btw). Surely these are the sorts of things that we should be focusing, rather than the result, when we're not in contention for the premiership. Rewatch the game with this in mind and I can assure you that there are a hell of a lot of positives to take out of it.

Too sensible.

 

[Bradkli]

Not that great? He is the only active player in the AFL along with Franklin and Waite that's yet to be held goalless in a final. Gunston has a better track record in the finals then Roughead.

Then why is he currently playing on the wing and up the ground and not as a forward??? "He's got an injury" is not a valid excuse. It's like listening to those that say "Vickery will come good with time" and "Omera will make it because Burgoyne did"....If he's out there, he's fit. How many goals has he kicked this year? He should be playing full-forward...an under 10s coaching panel could see that.

 

[WWSD]

Then why is he currently playing on the wing and up the ground and not as a forward??? "He's got an injury" is not a valid excuse. It's like listening to those that say "Vickery will come good with time" and "Omera will make it because Burgoyne did"....If he's out there, he's fit. How many goals has he kicked this year? He should be playing full-forward...an under 10s coaching panel could see that.

I agree he should be playing deep forward as I don't like him playing up the ground but it's not his fault the coaching staff have messed up the forward structure.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Then why is he currently playing on the wing and up the ground and not as a forward??? "He's got an injury" is not a valid excuse. It's like listening to those that say "Vickery will come good with time" and "Omera will make it because Burgoyne did"....If he's out there, he's fit. How many goals has he kicked this year? He should be playing full-forward...an under 10s coaching panel could see that.

He's averaging 16 touches per game but less than 2 shots at goal per game, I think the demise of Gunston is more clarko's fault.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Was only able to see the first quarter due to an engagement party, so was langfords game as bad as the stat sheet says? 16 touches at 43%, 3 clearances.

Pretty much You can make allowances for disposal efficiency for in and under players but 16 possessions just aint gonna cut it for a midfielder in 2017. Some of his handballs let alone kicks were VFL seconds level last night.

 

[MacMace]

Just so I can get my head around this, you want to get rid of

Trade:
Langford
Hartung
Gunston
Birchell

Retire:
Gibson
Hodge

And Burgoyne will not play on as you hope

If you think last night was bad - I can't even imagine how awful it will get next year if that core is ripped out

Agreed.

There are some crazy comments on here, from forced retirements, trading out proven stars, bitching about our lack of youth and free agents that cost us little, and my personal favorite is the venomous comments re the price we paid for an established and elite mid (over a gamble in the draft).

These comments really are hilarious!

Fact:

Silk is still in our best 5 easily, don't believe me have a look at the stats, if he had more support in the midfield people would probably be saying he is playing at his near best.

Hodge is contributing, tough and hard as always and leading. Yes, a bit slower and maybe making a few more mistakes but we need him in our team.

O'Meara will be a superstar for us, he is still rated in top 100 for centre clearences this year, off the back of not playing for 2 years and has been injured for a large part of this season. He will provide Mitch with much needed support.

Please don't get me started on Rough, Smith, Shiels, Gunners, Langford, etc.

Gibbo is the only player I think should consider hanging up the boots, perhaps a stint in Box Hill may give him the spark he needs.

If people buy into the metres gained stat we probably need to work on that area or recruit players that can help us in that area. That seems to be where we struggle, with the exception of Smith (#5 out of 100) and Mitch (85), Burton (86). Johannisen (4) could be a good pick up.

We have some great young kids (who have been starved of opportunities due to our outstanding senior list), pick up a couple of good free agents and get the other senior guys back on the park and we will be competitive, very competitive.



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[tige19]

How many of those years was he the third wheel behind buddy and roughy and got the oppositions third best defender?? I'm not saying he's not a very good player, he is. He's just not that great and is not a #1 forward. He's a #2 at best.

Currently he is anything but a forward, a more a gangly, roaming semi wing, semi forward, semi utility, semi I dunno wtf he is.

 

[zacattack]

It's all a bit easy to scream play the 'Kids'
But do we really know if they have all the 'Kids' have ticked the boxes the coaches require to get a senior game

I hear you but:
1) Brand is not a 'kid' and is close to cracking it/nearly left last year as to why he is constantly dropped like a hot potato when clearly he has potential, whenever a 'senior' is due back from injury/etc
2) Heatherley has been in the system forever - for years - still yet to crack a regular game/given a fair dinkum go
Maybe, one could argue in this group, both Litherland (now delisted), and JOR (understand he has a bad hammy but same concept last 3 years), have never been given a long run of games/a chance....
In this regard, using the 'Melbourne' analogy with Mark Neeld, and destroying confidence, is not the same situation here...

 

[A Cut Above]

You're dreaming...tom Mitchell is 10 x the player and more valuable than Gunston and he was traded for pick 14.

Anyone who doesn't think teams like Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond & Bulldogs wouldn't trade at least a 1st rounder for Jack Gunston has little business discussing football on this board or pretending they know much if anything about it.

Most coaches would give their left nut to have a 50+ goal a year forward like Jack. Playing out of position up the ground in the team with the worst midfield in the league its little wonder he's struggling.

 

[tige19]

Anyone who doesn't think teams like Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond & Bulldogs wouldn't trade at least a 1st rounder for Jack Gunston has little business discussing football on this board or pretending they know much if anything about it.

Most coaches would give their left nut to have a 50+ goal a year forward like Jack. Playing out of position up the ground in the team with the worst midfield in the league its little wonder he's struggling.

They would, and that's why we should cash in

 

[Hawks_Legendz]

Roughi shouldn't be captain, his not captain material, he doesn't lift when it's required and was hopeless last night. Why is that no one here mentions his name?? That bit when we had the ball on the wing and going into our 50 and decides to pass it back to the wing with a dodgey kick which cost us a goal. That was horrible!!!

 

[Upgrayedd]

Roughy*

 

[A Cut Above]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-21/great-scott-predictable-but-full-of-merit

Two marginally interesting things to come out of this article: Firstly that Collingwood apparently aimed to keep us to only 3 goals for the second half which seems slightly disrespectful (nevermind we only scored 1), and second that Pendlebury & his wife have followed the hallowed bogan/new money tradition of naming their offspring something conspicuously pretentious, in this case the woeful "Jax".

 

[illnino]

They would, and that's why we should cash in

We really shouldn't.

As for the game and our team, our midfield is sub-standard and when teams start to run and carry the ball and are also using the ball somewhat efficiently, it shows. Our midfield and our defensive structures/gameplan simply can't handle defending against an offensively-minded run and carry style of play.

That should be quite clear to anyone who watched the game last night, and in turn, saw the adjustment Collingwood made in the second term, and even more so, after half time.

Hopefully a few of JOM, JOR, Stewart, Lovell, Cousins, (insert possible free agent here) and a lift in form from some of our more senior mids can eventually rectify this problem in time.

 

[Hawks1994]

Not a good night, but there were certainly some positives amongst the carcasses

First Quarter - We were right on. Were first to the ball pretty much everytime, used it well, tackled, pressured and, most importantly, hit the scoreboard.A small shining light of what we are still capable of

Tom Mitchell - Wow. What a little beauty he is! Just doesn't stop trying. Can never knock a 50 disposal game win or lose

Howes First Quarter - Showed exactly how good he could be (pun certainly intended). Not scared to get in and get his hands dirty and the commitment with the Collingwood player (can't remember his name) was exceptional.

Sicilys First Half - Showed again that he can be a very dangerous asset when he puts his mind to it. I really hope he gets his mental game sorted out, cause as we know, professional sport is 90% mental

Kurt Heatherley - I don't think anyone was expecting an outstanding performance from him, given its only his second game of AFL football, but I thought he went alright. Very impressed with his aggression (doesn't back out of a tussle that's for sure!), his tackling was terrific, made a couple of good spoils and his uses it far better than I would expect from a guy who didn't grow up with the game.

 

[SSSSSS]

I'll just try to focus on the young blokes.

Titchell - One of the best solo performances I've seen in our jumper. Did the jumper proud. There wouldn't have been a single part of the MCG where he didn't leave his foot print. Future captain if he wants it. Leaves it all on the field.

Burton - Will be the star of our side in years to come. Will he maintain the role that he has done so well? Or could he be the classy midfielder that can feed of Mitchell's grunt? Commentators starting to notice him bodes well for the nothing award for the Rising Star. As far as his game it was very good. Intercept marks and the ability to turn defense into attack is delightful to see. He is playing like a 200 gamer already.

Hardwick - Played well in the first half. Disposal is elite. Henderson couldn't hold onto his missile kick. Will be a mainstay off half back.

Howe - Tough and uncompromising. Doesn't take a step back. Has a big body and knows how to use it. First time this year we unleashed him in the midfield to play as a ball winner and he did well in the first half. Second half not so much but there is something to work with. He's not quick but he's big and strong. If he can clean up his disposal to what it used to be in his first year we have a decent player to rotate through the middle.

Sicily - First half big tick. Second half was woeful. Is he just a downhill skier? Doesn't work hard enough when we lose momentum and fails to make his own opportunities. His talent is unquestionable though. Of our young blokes he probably has the most natural ability after Burton.

Kiwi - Didn't notice him much which is a tick for a defender. Stood up for himself and made Pendles shit his dacks. I like him.

Hartung - Didn't notice him much which is a big thumbs down for a midfielder. He's approaching senior player territory and performances like that are extremely disappointing. Mitchell busted his arse off for a player like Hartung to feed it to but he just failed to give him any option.

 

[flinchfree]

I hear you but:
1) Brand is not a 'kid' and is close to cracking it/nearly left last year as to why he is constantly dropped like a hot potato when clearly he has potential, whenever a 'senior' is due back from injury/etc
2) Heatherley has been in the system forever - for years - still yet to crack a regular game/given a fair dinkum go
Maybe, one could argue in this group, both Litherland (now delisted), and JOR (understand he has a bad hammy but same concept last 3 years), have never been given a long run of games/a chance....
In this regard, using the 'Melbourne' analogy with Mark Neeld, and destroying confidence, is not the same situation here...

You do remember that the backline players keeping Brand and Heatherley out had a wee bit of success the last 5 plus years....right?
I mean, it's kind of hard turfing out players who keep either winning grand finals or getting you thereabouts.

 

[Big Hotdog]

Think we had a goalless second half against West Coast in Perth back when Jade Rawlings was playing for us...comes to mind.

2009? or 10 v dogs at etihad....didnt kick a goal until late third quarter

 

[Hawker98]

I think Lovell/O'Rourke could have really stepped up this year in this midfield, it's a real shame with their injuries, would have been a great year for development

 

[SSSSSS]

Is it time to give Langford a run with role? I feel he could be the type of player that benefits from having a job. He has all the tools for it. Physically he's hard to beat and has the speed to match anyone.

 

[Off The Couch]

Anyone who doesn't think teams like Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond & Bulldogs wouldn't trade at least a 1st rounder for Jack Gunston has little business discussing football on this board or pretending they know much if anything about it.

Most coaches would give their left nut to have a 50+ goal a year forward like Jack. Playing out of position up the ground in the team with the worst midfield in the league its little wonder he's struggling.

And you're credentials in this area are what?

No one is disputing that he has value but what seems like only five minutes ago there were posters on this board all for getting rid of TOB and brand because they were apparently useless and now they are required players ahead of Gunston who is only 26. People are struggling with losing a few games this season and still bitching and moaning about Mitch and Tazz being let go and now names like Gunston, Shiels, Langford, Birchell are also being thrown up as possible trades when the reality is that we will probably lose Hodge, Gibson and Burgoyne come years end - where does that then leave us for experience. We just need to Continue getting some consecutive games into players we have on the list to get some balance back, score some quality free agents with the money freed up with Sam, Jordan, Hodge, Gibbo and Silk retiring. It's not going to happen in one season so throwing the baby out with the bathwater after just a few shitty games is pointless.

Can we also take a moment to remember who was missing from that side last night that still have quite a few seasons left in them rather than his hyperbolic over reaction

 

[MasterSamurai]

we should not be trading anyone atm. a player like Gunston is a lot more valuable than his current form suggests. he IS a forward not a wingman or a backman.
anyway some points from being at the game.
that first half is what we will be aiming for, it had a very 2014-15 feel to it and the players making that impact were players that will be at the club and right age for the next push for a flag!! so that is a huge positive.
I cant believe how happy the pies are!! we have been struggling all year plus missing over half a dozen very good players and they still only won by 3 kicks! they wont play finals because they are simply not good enough.
Gibbo wasn't all that bad, he is playing true CHB role which means he aint gonna get too many cheap possessions but Burgoyne and Hodge were terrible, no impact on the game at all and if we didn't have so many injuries I believe they would have been rested.
Both Shiels and Langford have to better for longer because at this rate Tommy Gun will become a 'Hunchback' by the end of the season.
we badly need one more A grade mid and we should be well on our way to becoming a very good team again.
Good to see Poppy and Breust get some form back.
really liked Burton (again) and Heatherly should get more games.

 

[Billyc]

Pathetic. We are crap but so are Collingwood. Allowing them to come back from 40 points down and lose without giving a yelp was just embarrassing. There are problems far beyond personnel. Time to actually drop blokes who just don't give a shit anymore.

 

[flinchfree]

Is it time to give Langford a run with role? I feel he could be the type of player that benefits from having a job. He has all the tools for it. Physically he's hard to beat and has the speed to match anyone.

He's always 'running with'.
First thing he does as the ball goes up is turn to look for his opponent and throw out a forearm to try and check their run.
It's why he only gets 16 possessions, and has a lifetime average of 18 per game.
Not a natural footballer, totally self made on the back of exceptional desire and courage. You can't teach great eye-hand, natural ball drop, feel for space and where team mates are, being able to take weight off a kick to drop it into a teammates run, knowing where to run as play develops so you can affect the next contest, reading it off hands as it flies forwards and taking it in stride.....
He won't ever be very good at getting the footy except for bobbing up every now and then with an out of the box performance.
The rest will always be pedestrian.
If his name wasn't Langford he'd never have made it out of the VFL.