Club Focus Hawthorn 2023

[Chris25]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order see the thread here.

Footywire says: "While we make every effort to keep up to date with player contracts, it is likely that our data may at times be out of date, incomplete or inaccurate. If you find any player contracts that need updating, please let us know using our brand new contract submission form."

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lore

 

[Crankyhawk]

Lore

What would the plan be with future 4ths?

 

[HairyO]

Loaded up on Future 4ths. Big things brewing in 2024.

 

[soupofficial]

What would the plan be with future 4ths?

They're loose coins in the glove box for whatever comes up. The most common use is just greasing the wheels of some low value trades. There was a future 4th involved in the Gunston deal this year, for example. If the choice was between not using the picks tonight, and trading them for some glove box coins, then of course we did the right thing.

Strapless Young Lewd is all reporting, no analysis.

 

[Lars27]

It was the worst ranked midfield in the comp for clearances and 3rd worst for contested possessions.

This is with Merrett and Parish both averaging 30+ touches a piece.

I like Tsatas and I see he's starting to put on size. Horrible disposal and ball drop which hopefully he will work on but he's at least got the scope to be that inside/outside mid you have been screaming for years.

Hobbs and Setterfield are one paced mids which are going the way of the dinosaur.

You still have Ridley at half back no? Wasn't that the whole point of Big Ben to release Ridley again?

Hawthorn weren't far ahead at all in those statistics though, and they had a much more settled line up with significantly less injuries. Your core midfield barely missed a game.
I think your analysis of Hobbs is laughable (Worpel says hi) - he has already shown he is capable at 19 years old.
Ridley is a third tall interceptor. We need a rebounding defender, and we just drafted two so the club agrees with me.

 

[HeHateMe]

Very early days, but Weddle doesn’t look anything special for what the Hawks gave up for him.

Weddle trade ended being a bargain with hindsight considering how compromised this draft was. Bundling our 2nd and 3rd to move up into the first round last year was a brilliant move.

 

[hawkinoz]

What would the plan be with future 4ths?

Points for Ned Maginess in 2024 at bare minimum if he rates as FS pick.

Grease trade wheels in 2024. Satisfy some weird criteria to balance trades in AFL HQ's eyes.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Points for Ned Maginess in 2024 at bare minimum if he rates as FS pick.

Grease trade wheels in 2024. Satisfy some weird criteria to balance trades in AFL HQ's eyes.

That's all well and good but I'd prefer to read more about how Essendon are progressing in this thread

 

[jackenny]

Weddle trade ended being a bargain with hindsight considering how compromised this draft was. Bundling our 2nd and 3rd to move up into the first round last year was a brilliant move.

Weddle was great recruitment. He is an AFL footballer. A kid who plays 17 games in his first year (including a 2 goal, 28 touches, 7 marks game) is an easy win. I honestly felt he did more as a first year player than Cam Mackenzie (whose role is more difficult to be fair) and Hustwaite, tbh. His first year was better than Ward’s (whose real talent is hard work) and Macdonald (more talented than Ward imo but doesn’t have the same crazy good application/consistency).

 

[WWSD]

The pieces are slowly in place now. Watson (small forward), McCabe (key defender), Dear (forward/ruck) add to areas that Hawthorn were lacking in.

About 12 months ago Hawthorn had close to the worst midfield in the league. Now it’s got Newcombe, Day, Nash, Worpel, C.MacDonald, Ward, MacKenzie & Weddle as part of that mix. Suddenly it’s not looking too bad.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Our list of players that are 25 and younger:

Defenders
25 - Scrimshaw*
24 - CJ*
23 - Blanck*
21 - DGB, Serong, Mitchell*
20 - D'Ambrosio
19 - Weddle*, Macdonald
18 - McCabe, Ryan

Rucks
25 - Meek, Reeves
19 - Tucker

Midfield
25 - Nash*, Worpel*, Morrison
23 - Maginess
22 - Newcombe*, Day*
20 - Ward*, Mackenzie*
19 - Hustwaite

Forwards
25 - Lewis*
24 - Moore*
21 - MacDonald*, Ginnivan*, Butler
20 - Ramsden
19 - O'Sullivan, Bennetts
18 - Watson*, Dear

Obviously not all of them will make it, and I don't expect non-Hawks to know some of these names.

But I think it's been shown that all of the players with * will have long term futures, and IMO, could be fixtures in our future push up the ladder.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Our list of players that are 25 and younger:

Defenders
25 - Scrimshaw*
24 - CJ*
23 - Blanck*
21 - DGB, Serong, Mitchell*
20 - D'Ambrosio
19 - Weddle*, Macdonald
18 - McCabe, Ryan

Rucks
25 - Meek, Reeves
19 - Tucker

Midfield
25 - Nash*, Worpel*, Morrison
23 - Maginess
22 - Newcombe*, Day*
20 - Ward*, Mackenzie*
19 - Hustwaite

Forwards
25 - Lewis*
24 - Moore*
21 - MacDonald*, Ginnivan*, Butler
20 - Ramsden
19 - O'Sullivan, Bennetts
18 - Watson*, Dear

Obviously not all of them will make it, and I don't expect non-Hawks to know some of these names.

But I think it's been shown that all of the players with * will have long term futures, and IMO, could be fixtures in our future push up the ladder.

How you don’t have Reeves as a known commodity, I do not know.

 

[Caligo]

How you don’t have Reeves as a known commodity, I do not know.

I think the jury is still out on Reeves. I have huge hopes for him but I don't think he has absolutely proven he is a number 1 ruck yet.

 

[jackenny]

There’s a bit written on Hawks having a chance to get Curtin, but honestly the clear standouts to me in that draft were Reid > Watson or Curtin > McKercher > Dursma in that order. Getting Curtin would be a “in five years” draftee; Watson will be ready to roll much like Kosi at Melbourne in only a couple years if not first year. That, and Curtin is more-so a rich man’s Scrimshaw (taller, better hands, just as good disposal if not more piercing), and Scrumshaw isn’t exactly crap albeit seemingly a bit undervalued. He’s not a genuine shut-down key back; he’s an intercept and rebound defender. With Sicily and Scrimshaw, and a developing Weddle, it’s a bit superfluous to the Hawk’s needs.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

How you don’t have Reeves as a known commodity, I do not know.

Because out of every first choice ruckman in the league he is the worst around the ground, and I prefer ruckmen that can mark, get touches around the ground, exert their presence physically and rest forward - all things Reeves does not do.

8.1 touches, and 1.5 marks per game, and 2 goals for the entire year doesn't cut it. They're worse stats than Andrew Phillips managed as a 2nd fiddle ruckman.

History shows that all the recent Premiers have had mobile rucks that offer something around the ground and/or rucks that can offer something up forward:

Cameron / Cox
Stanley / Blicavs
Gawn
Nank / Soldo
Lycett / Vardy
Big Boy / Hale

He needs to improve in these areas. If he can improve this season then I'll be sold, because his tap work is first rate. Sounds like he's out on some size and has worked on his tank, so that's a good start.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Because out of every first choice ruckman in the league he is the worst around the ground, and I prefer ruckmen that can mark, get touches around the ground, exert their presence physically and rest forward - all things Reeves does not do.

8.1 touches, and 1.5 marks per game, and 2 goals for the entire year doesn't cut it. They're worse stats than Andrew Phillips managed as a 2nd fiddle ruckman.

History shows that all the recent Premiers have had mobile rucks that offer something around the ground and/or rucks that can offer something up forward:

Cameron / Cox
Stanley / Blicavs
Gawn
Nank / Soldo
Lycett / Vardy
Big Boy / Hale

He needs to improve in these areas. If he can improve this season then I'll be sold, because his tap work is first rate. Sounds like he's out on some size and has worked on his tank, so that's a good start.

I think it’s a bit absurd that you talk about possessions and completely disregard what it is that he’s better at than almost every other ruck in the competition which is winning taps.
Sam has continually spoken about players having a weapon, and ruck-work is clearly Ned’s.

He was third in the comp for win% last I looked, and it’s no surprise that as a consequence we were top 5 for centre clearances in 2023. Without him we’re likely still bottom 8 for clearances.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think the jury is still out on Reeves. I have huge hopes for him but I don't think he has absolutely proven he is a number 1 ruck yet.

See above.

Saying you’re not sure he’s a number 1 ruck is like saying I’m not sure Mitch Lewis is a good focal point.

 

[RUNVS]

I know nothing of Hawthorn's draft haul but being a Swans fan I am going to say they did terribly and will be in the bottom 3rd of the ladder for the next decade.

 

[Caligo]

See above.

Saying you’re not sure he’s a number 1 ruck is like saying I’m not sure Mitch Lewis is a good focal point.

It doesn't feel like we perform better in the midfield when he is there in contrast to others at ruck. I would be curious to see a breakdown of clearances with/without him as the ruck in 2023.

Taps are a meaningless stat in my opinion.

Comparing him to Lewis seems fanciful, but perhaps I am wrong and he really is the key to our midfield success in 2023. The clearance breakdown would be telling.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The pieces are slowly in place now. Watson (small forward), McCabe (key defender), Dear (forward/ruck) add to areas that Hawthorn were lacking in.

About 12 months ago Hawthorn had close to the worst midfield in the league. Now it’s got Newcombe, Day, Nash, Worpel, C.MacDonald, Ward, MacKenzie & Weddle as part of that mix. Suddenly it’s not looking too bad.

Still a bottom 4 midfield (on paper) for mine, but obviously Still young and raw with plenty of upside.

Newcombe aside, I don't see any potential AA midfielder (based on exposed form, well apart from Weddle who is an outstanding prospect)

Dear will take a couple of years in the VFL to develop I would suggest.

I will be more than happy to be proven wrong (and will admit it) but I don't think Hawthorn will make any significant inroads (least in terms of win) next season. Another development year, and that is perfectly okay

 

[theiaofseed]

Still a bottom 4 midfield (on paper) for mine, but obviously Still young and raw with plenty of upside.

Newcombe aside, I don't see any potential AA midfielder (based on exposed form, well apart from Weddle who is an outstanding prospect)

Dear will take a couple of years in the VFL to develop I would suggest.

I will be more than happy to be proven wrong (and will admit it) but I don't think Hawthorn will make any significant inroads (least in terms of win) next season. Another development year, and that is perfectly okay

That says more about your football knowledge than Hawthorns list.

You wont, you will just double down again as usual.

 

[Caligo]

Newcombe aside, I don't see any potential AA midfielder (based on exposed form, well apart from Weddle who is an outstanding prospect)

Day?

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

That says more about your football knowledge than Hawthorns list.

You wont, you will just double down again as usual.

Stop being so defensive, I have said I am happy to be proven wrong and admit it if Hawthorn do better than expected next season, I just happen to believe that Hawthorn's rebuild is not over, not by a long chalk.

Still a fair way off from seriously challenging for the 8.