Hawthorn and their supporters

[hawkman]

We won't be seeing Tazdawk for at least 6 months I reckon.

Not the worst thing that could happen

 

[livnixon9]

Another ignorant sheep.

What zones did we get that were 'unfair'.
Why didn't we win any more flags after 91 considering zones were still in place in 1985?
Why did Essendon win in 84-85?

Sour grapes, hatred, whatever it is, I LOVE IT.

Not hatred, sour grapes or whatever, they are facts.

Only Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond were in strong financial position during the 1930s. Dyer received from Richmond supporters twice as much again as he earned from the Coulter payment.

Country zoning was implemented in 1967, so from the 1968 season country recruits were zoned to a particular VFL club. The allocation was a matter of pot luck, literally. Club names were placed in the Premiership Cup and the 12 zones in its lid, and a draw conducted........ Hawthorn, Carlton, Richmond and North Melbourne seem to have fared best. The zones theoretically the ‘weakest’ have gone to Geelong, South Melbourne and Collingwood

Minor changes to country zones were made in 1972, the aim being to create zones which contained roughly the same number of young males. The criteria used by the VFL to determine the boundaries were local government boundaries; the spread and density of population; and the age distribution of the population over all regions. The quality of zones varied considerably and some VFL clubs were unhappy with their allotted zone

Hawthorn were the only VFL club with access to a metropolitan zone (Frankston) and a country one and in 1981, they had a catchment of 180 k compared to Geelong, who had only 40 k.

Prior to zones being implemented, 9 clubs tasted premiership success. After zones were implemented, only 5 clubs won premierships in a 30 year period. These 5 went to the zones with the highest population.

 

[Frankston Rover]

Not hatred, sour grapes or whatever, they are facts.

Hawthorn were the only VFL club with access to a metropolitan zone (Frankston) and a country one and in 1981, they had a catchment of 180 k compared to Geelong, who had only 40 k.

Prior to zones being implemented, 9 clubs tasted premiership success. After zones were implemented, only 5 clubs won premierships in a 30 year period. These 5 went to the zones with the highest population.

Geez you suck at this.

St.Kilda had Frankston as it's zone too. How many flags did they win?

 

[livnixon9]

Geez you suck at this.

St.Kilda had Frankston as it's zone too. How many flags did they win?

That is incorrect. St. Kilda's zone was Ballarat.

Frankston's zone was included in the Mornington Peninsula league, which went all the way to Warragul, Wonthaggi to Morwell.

Dermott Brereton (Frankston Bombers), Chris Mew (Rosebud), Kelvin Moore (Pines) & Leigh Matthews (Pines) were all recruited to Hawthorn under the Frankston zone.

As I said, you were the only club with access to a metro zone (Frankston) and a country one.

The league acknowledged the inequlity in the zone distribution in 1981 after Geelong and Collingwood complained to the VFL. At this point, Hawthorn had rural zones with a population of 180 k, Geelong's contained only a 3rd of that.

Between 1965 and 1967 the rural zones allocated to North, Carlton & Hawthorn had each yielded 16 league recruits. Collingwood, Geelong and Footscray only generated 3 league recruits in this period.

They were the only reason Hawthorn were able to go from a club that had won 11 wooden spoons and hadn't played in September from 1925 to 1957 to one that was 'successful'.

Ever since the retirements of these zone players (Brereton, Tuck, Mew, Dear, etc, all played in the 91 decider and were from your zone), you have played in 2 Grand Finals in 20 years, won 1 of them and have played 19 finals and only won 8 of them.

 

[Senatorguesty]

Geez you suck at this.

St.Kilda had Frankston as it's zone too. How many flags did they win?

I dont see why you keep bitching about the facts.
Its similar to Geelong and our good run of father/son picks.
It is what it is, it gave you an advantage over the rest, get over it.

 

[Frankston Rover]

That is incorrect. St. Kilda's zone was Ballarat.

So where were Robert Harvey and Nathan Burke drafted from?

Frankston's zone was included in the Mornington Peninsula league, which went all the way to Warragul, Wonthaggi to Morwell.

Dermott Brereton (Frankston Bombers), Chris Mew (Rosebud), Kelvin Moore (Pines) & Leigh Matthews (Pines) were all recruited to Hawthorn under the Frankston zone.

Leigh Matthews played for Chelsea.

And those players mentioned span a period of over 20 years. Quite an effort for those 4 blokes to be responsible for 9 premierships.

As I said, you were the only club with access to a metro zone (Frankston) and a country one.

Every club had a metro zone you dill. Do some research otherwise you'll continue to make yourself look stupid.

The league acknowledged the inequlity in the zone distribution in 1981 after Geelong and Collingwood complained to the VFL. At this point, Hawthorn had rural zones with a population of 180 k, Geelong's contained only a 3rd of that.

Really? Some proof would be good.

Care to tell me who finished the home and away season of 1980 on top of the ladder?

Was it Hawthorn, North or Carlton? Or someone else?

Between 1965 and 1967 the rural zones allocated to North, Carlton & Hawthorn had each yielded 16 league recruits. Collingwood, Geelong and Footscray only generated 3 league recruits in this period.

So you guys sucked at identifying talent.

So did we when we took Luke Brennan, Mitch Thorp and Beau Dowler in the draft.

QUICK, CHANGE THE SYSTEM, CHANGE THE SYSTEM!!!

They were the only reason Hawthorn were able to go from a club that had won 11 wooden spoons and hadn't played in September from 1925 to 1957 to one that was 'successful'.

No, training hard and developing a decent culture did that.

Maybe your club should've tried it.

Ever since the retirements of these zone players (Brereton, Tuck, Mew, Dear, etc, all played in the 91 decider and were from your zone), you have played in 2 Grand Finals in 20 years, won 1 of them and have played 19 finals and only won 8 of them.

Given our zone was so good - according to you - and given players generally don't peak until 25-28, why did we win zero flags from 1992-1996 when our 'superzone' would have given us heaps of talented 18yo's in 1983-1985?

 

[Frankston Rover]

Frankston's zone was included in the Mornington Peninsula league, which went all the way to Warragul, Wonthaggi to Morwell.

Sorry this is just plain wrong.

So wrong it's not even funny.

The MPNFL as it exists today doesn't even go to Wonthaggi or Morwell let alone 40 years ago.

You might be able to convince your classmates son but you've been found out here.

Really badly.

 

[livnixon9]

So where were Robert Harvey and Nathan Burke drafted from?

Robert Harvey went to St. Kilda via the draft. His first game was in 1988, by that time, the VFL had introduced the draft in 1986. Both were local boys, but their recruitment had nothing to do with zones. The VFL disbanded zones in 1985. St. Kilda would have to have selected Harvey as a 13 year old to qualify in a supposed St. Kilda zone.

And those players mentioned span a period of over 20 years. Quite an effort for those 4 blokes to be responsible for 9 premierships.

There were many more examples. Kelvin Matthews (his brother) is another. That isn't including the zone that produced Peter Knights, Geoff Ablett, Leon Rice, Michael Tuck, the Dears and many more. The same zone that was 3 times the size in terms of population than any other zone.

Given our zone was so good - according to you - and given players generally don't peak until 25-28, why did we win zero flags from 1992-1996 when our 'superzone' would have given us heaps of talented 18yo's in 1983-1985?

The draft came into effect in 1987. By that time, the effect of the draft had mitigated the advantage Hawthorn got with their zone.

That is why you have been a failure in the national competition. No more zones to get the likes of Brereton, Tuck, Matthews & co, now you are being forced to recruit spuds such as Alex McDonald, Xavier Ellis, Mitch Thorp and Bo Dowler.

 

[Frankston Rover]

Robert Harvey went to St. Kilda via the draft. His first game was in 1988, by that time, the VFL had introduced the draft in 1986. Both were local boys, but their recruitment had nothing to do with zones. The VFL disbanded zones in 1985. St. Kilda would have to have selected Harvey as a 13 year old to qualify in a supposed St. Kilda zone.

Gee you'd better tell Rob Harvey that.

Harvey was recruited from St Kilda's then VCFL zone, from Seaford

What number in the draft did he go?

There were many more examples. Kelvin Matthews (his brother) is another. That isn't including the zone that produced Peter Knights, Geoff Ablett, Leon Rice, Michael Tuck, the Dears and many more. The same zone that was 3 times the size in terms of population than any other zone.

Hang on, are you trying to tell me that Longwarry, Warragul and Morwell weren't 'country'?

Consideringthe LaTrobe Valley was largely Footscray's zone, I'm still not sure what your point is.

The draft came into effect in 1987. By that time, the effect of the draft had mitigated the advantage Hawthorn got with their zone.

Really, but shouldn't our 'Superzone' that we had prior still be pumping out champions?

We should've won flags well into the 90's by your reckoning.

That is why you have been a failure in the national competition.

Yeah three clubs are ahead of us. It's been a dismal failure...

No more zones to get the likes of Brereton, Tuck, Matthews & co, now you are being forced to recruit spuds such as Alex McDonald, Xavier Ellis, Mitch Thorp and Bo Dowler.

You have no idea.

BTW, you didn't answer my question.

Who finished top of the ladder after the home and away rounds in 1980?

 

[footscore]

all we need now is for Dermott Brereton to admit he has been getting botox injections all this time and I think 2012 will turn out to be quite a year to savior in hindsight.

 

[Hodge is God]

It's funny because we haven't broken down like teams of former years..

We know Sydney were better on the day. Move on.

 

[footscore]

It's funny because we haven't broken down like teams of former years..

just give it another year or two and you'll soon start to feel it
(window is now shut)

 

[Hodge is God]

just give it another year or two and you'll soon start to feel it
(window is now shut)

Window is now shut?
Mitchell, Hodge, Sewell... still got a couple years yet.

All others are relative young... or young enough to still have a shot at the premiership for a few years.

 

[footscore]

Window is now shut?
Mitchell, Hodge, Sewell... still got a couple years yet.

All others are relative young... or young enough to still have a shot at the premiership for a few years.

what happened to Hawthorn when Guerra went down?
what happened to Hawthorn when Mitchell's influence was nullified?

You got young blokes who are overrated and if you haven't worked that out after the last 4 years and the recent GF then keep believing God.

 

[Hodge is God]

what happened to Hawthorn when Guerra went down?
what happened to Hawthorn when Mitchell's influence was nullified?

You got young blokes who are overrated and if you haven't worked that out after the last 4 years and the recent GF then keep believing God.

I thought, a Geelong supporter out of all people will know that there is always still a couple more years.
Guerra has re-signed.
Sewell re-signed for 3 more years (he is just as important as Mitchell).
Hodge will (hopefully) have an injury free season.
Mitchell will have another great year.
Buddy and Roughead are still only 25.
Rioli is 23.
Breust, Whitecross, Schoenmakers (who is only 21 and taking on the best, so give him time) and Stratton are all very promising young players.

 

[DTRAIN87]

I thought, a Geelong supporter out of all people will know that there is always still a couple more years.
Guerra has re-signed.
Sewell re-signed for 3 more years (he is just as important as Mitchell).
Hodge will (hopefully) have an injury free season.
Mitchell will have another great year.
Buddy and Roughead are still only 25.
Rioli is 23.
Breust, Whitecross, Schoenmakers (who is only 21 and taking on the best, so give him time) and Stratton are all very promising young players.

LOL look at Geelong. One year of their older stalwardts going down and they struggle because the young ones can't fill the role. Especially when the role was filled by an elite player like Scarlett.

Even with young skilled players like Hawkins and Selwood we still lose the edge that certain older players give us. As for your list above, Mitchell and Guerra are both 30 going on 31, Hodge is 29 and struggled with his body, Buddy and Roughead will be 26 at the start of the year. Sewell is 29.

 

[footscore]

I thought, a Geelong supporter out of all people will know that there is always still a couple more years.

this is why I hate Hawthorn.
You pricks seem to compare yourselves to Geelong, Hawthron are nothing compared to that team!
Geelong have champions across all lines on the ground while Hawthorn do not.

Geelong have lost champions in the space of 12 months which is the only reason why we have gone backwards.
I see no improvement from Hawthorn's list coming up in 2013....Franklin to get better?
The guy's best footy was 2 years ago and he's failed to take his game to the next level which past champs like Ablett, Carey and others did.
You have players holding the team back and unless Hawthorn draft a quality ruckmen along with 2 KPD and a midfielder with some explosive speed, teams will be quietly passing them by.

 

[Hodge is God]

this is why I hate Hawthorn.
You pricks seem to compare yourselves to Geelong, Hawthron are nothing compared to that team!
Geelong have champions across all lines on the ground while Hawthorn do not.

Geelong have lost champions in the space of 12 months which is the only reason why we have gone backwards.
I see no improvement from Hawthorn's list coming up in 2013....Franklin to get better?
The guy's best footy was 2 years ago and he's failed to take his game to the next level which past champs like Ablett, Carey and others did.
You have players holding the team back and unless Hawthorn draft a quality ruckmen along with 2 KPD and a midfielder with some explosive speed, teams will be quietly passing them by.

We only need 1 KPD.
Schoenmakers is fine on the second forward, just not the first.

In the short term were fine.
I know, in the long term, we might struggle.

 

[Frankston Rover]

this is why I hate Hawthorn.
You pricks seem to compare yourselves to Geelong, Hawthron are nothing compared to that team!
Geelong have champions across all lines on the ground while Hawthorn do not.

Geelong have lost champions in the space of 12 months which is the only reason why we have gone backwards.
I see no improvement from Hawthorn's list coming up in 2013....Franklin to get better?
The guy's best footy was 2 years ago and he's failed to take his game to the next level which past champs like Ablett, Carey and others did.
You have players holding the team back and unless Hawthorn draft a quality ruckmen along with 2 KPD and a midfielder with some explosive speed, teams will be quietly passing them by.

Why are you wasting your talents here when a career at the Geelong Addy is surely beckoning?

Your style of writing, unbiased as it is, would surely be an asset.

 

[Falchoon]

Our zone was considered shit at the time.

then 200,000 people moved in