Hawthorn FC worst nightmare the 2017 Draft

[Fetnarr]

Hope so.

It's the only thing to look forward to this year.

Agree.....and the free agency period!

 

[doppleganger]

Personally i am frustrated the club haven't given some of the younger players more of a go.

Brought a couple more in the last few weeks at least.

Abasi must be related to R.Lyon.

 

[Olian]

I'm simply proving that the idea that Sydney have played kids while Hawthorn have not is a myth.

Under 20 games played(this weeks teams).
Sydney - 32 players used in 2017
Marsh - 11 games
Melican - 0 games
Hayward - 3 games
Foote - 4 games
Newman(emerg) - 3 games

Hawthorn - 31 players used in 2017
Burton - 7 games
Brand - 13 games
O'Brien - 19 games
Howe - 15 games
Hardwick - 2 games
Stewart (emerg) - 4 games

Nice use of stats... why only the round 5 teams?

 

[DrEvil_]

Really not much point comparing to Sydney. Another club determined that bottoming out is not desirable.
Played more youngsters cos they have a few more injuries

You mean the AFL determined...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Why are you only looking at the r5 named teams?

Wouldn't it make sense to look at the named teams for this week, when discussing if Hawthorn are playing kids or not?

Florent and Marsh have played all 4 games so far.

That's great. Brand and Howe probably would've played similar if they weren't coming back from injury themselves.

Alliir, Fox, Foote, Hayward and Newman have all played in 3 of the 4 games so far.

That's great too.

Sydney have been playing the kids...Hewett, and Mills also played all 4 and they in the 20 games mark.

Ok, cool. I'm not arguing that they haven't.

15 Hawks have played all 4 games so far, Langford the least experienced and he is a 50 gamer.

And? Is there some sort of rule that says you've only played kids if they've played all 4 games?

Burton the only kid to get 3 games to date at the Hawks.

So what you're saying is that unless the kids come in and play more than 3 games in a row, they're not actually playing games?
Is that the ruling you're bringing to the table?
Do Teia Mile's games not count because he only played two games then got dropped?
If Hardwick is dropped next week, do his games not count?
Tim O'Brien is a fair chance of being dropped next week too, that will mean he doesn't meet your 3 games threshold.

This is a team made up of Hawks who played 3 or more games to date in 2017

Henderson, Frawley, Stratton
Hodge, Gibson, Burgoyne
Smith, Shiels, JOM
Breust, Roughy, Gunston
Rioli, Vickery, Poppy
McEvoy, T.Mitchell, Langford

Int Burton

Hawks playing the kids!!

Again, what's this 3 or more games business?

If Sydney have played 32 players and Hawthorn have used 31, and both sides are running out this week with around 5-6 players with less than 20 games experience both sides are playing kids.

 

[doppleganger]

I just don't understand why they have to have played 3 games this year? Seems to be manipulating the criteria to try and prove a stupid point...

We have played 8 kids in the first 5 rounds with less than 20 games....I expect that number to increase as the season progresses and Clarko concedes our season is shot.

Sydney's hand has been forced due to injury so it's a dumb comparison

Hawthorn have had a consistent senior team on the park.

Rotating Hardwick, Miles, Stewart through the final two bench spots is hardly playing the kids.

On the other hand Sydney have actually played kids and they have been ok.

This week the Swans get a couple of senior guys back so have been able to leave out kids for a change.

It was Abasi trying to claim Hawthorn have been playing kids just as much as the Swans, which is utter tripe.

 

[Fetnarr]

Hawthorn have had a consistent senior team on the park.

Rotating Hardwick, Miles, Stewart through the final two bench spots is hardly playing the kids.

On the other hand Sydney have actually played kids and they have been ok.

This week the Swans get a couple of senior guys back so have been able to leave out kids for a change.

It was Abasi trying to claim Hawthorn have been playing kids just as much as the Swans, which is utter tripe.

Actually all he was doing was replying to another poster who said "unlike Sydney, Hawthorn are not playing the kids"

Which is incorrect. hawthorn are playing kids while still trying to win games, unfortunately they are failing at that dismally. Just because Hawthorn haven't played as many kids as Sydney, who incidentally have been forced to due to injuries, doesn't mean they are not playing the kids they feel are ready.

It's just another stupid big footy argument where people misrepresent each other. If you look at it objectively, this weeks team is more representative of the one the Swans want to put on the park each week and 5 of those kids have been dropped. I think you'll see the opposite happen at the Hawks in the coming weeks which is indicitive of where our lists are at.

 

[doppleganger]

Wouldn't it make sense to look at the named teams for this week, when discussing if Hawthorn are playing kids or not?

Named teams for Rd5 is in the future.

Conveniently Sydney have made 4 changes, with 4 kids going out and 3 senior guys back in.

But in the actual games that have occurred to date, that have resulted in two teams going 0-4, one team has played heaps of kids.

So what you're saying is that unless the kids come in and play more than 3 games in a row, they're not actually playing games?

Best way to show who is playing the kids is count games played by kids to date in 2017.

22 positions x 4 games...88 possible game slots.

Of the 88, Sydney would be a collective total around 35 taken up by kids.

Hawthorn would be about a dozen.

Sydney are playing kids, Clarko has stuck fat with his veterans and just rotated the bench spots.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

A partial team using Sydney guys who have played 3 or more games to date in 2017, but have played less than 25 games at the start of the season

B - Marsh
HB - Mills, Allir, Newman
C - Hewett, Florent
HF - Fox
F - Hayward
Foll - Naismith, Foote

Let's change your arbitrary criteria to mine(if they've played, they've played). And see what we get.

The equivalent Hawthorn team

B - Brand
HB - Hardwick, Burton, Miles
C - Stewart, Howe
HF - Sicily
F - O'Brien
FOLL -

 

[doppleganger]

Actually all he was doing was replying to another poster who said "unlike Sydney, Hawthorn are not playing the kids"

Which is incorrect. hawthorn are playing kids while still trying to win games, unfortunately they are failing at that dismally. Just because Hawthorn haven't played as many kids as Sydney, who incidentally have been forced to due to injuries, doesn't mean they are not playing the kids they feel are ready.

It's just another stupid big footy argument where people misrepresent each other. If you look at it objectively, this weeks team is more representative of the one the Swans want to put on the park each week and 5 of those kids have been dropped. I think you'll see the opposite happen at the Hawks in the coming weeks which is indicitiv elf where our lists are at.

Yeah, Sydney have an excuse for their slow start...their team has been full of kids.

Hawthorn on the other hand, it is the same veteran names on the park.

 

[SA HAWK]

Sydney are playing kids, Clarko has stuck fat with his veterans and just rotated the bench spots.

Burton has played every game but apart from that you are pretty much right.

I do think Brand would have played every game too if not for injury.

Personally miffed as to why Stewart hasn't been given more games.

I do expect this to change as the season progresses more youngsters brought in the last 2 weeks.

 

[Fetnarr]

Yeah, Sydney have an excuse for their slow start...their team has been full of kids.

Hawthorn on the other hand, it is the same veteran names on the park.

sydney do have an excuse. We don't. This is true.

 

[Fetnarr]

Burton has played every game but apart from that you are pretty much right.

I do think Brand would have played every game too if not for injury.

Personally miffed as to why Stewart hasn't been given more games.

I do expect this to change as the season progresses.

They've been trying to win and have kept the faith with the guys that have done it before. Unfortunately it hasn't worked out for us so far in 2017.

 

[doppleganger]

Personally miffed as to why Stewart hasn't been given more games.

I do expect this to change as the season progresses more youngsters brought in the last 2 weeks.

Clarko clearly thought his veteran team was still a contender. You dont need to play kids when you are contending, senior blokes like Henderson and Vickery will fill a role instead and the Hawks would keep winning.

Whoops.

 

[Fetnarr]

Yeah, Sydney have an excuse for their slow start...their team has been full of kids.

Hawthorn on the other hand, it is the same veteran names on the park.

Here's a question for you though. Keeping in mind the state of each of our lists, if Hawthorn were to finish bottom 4, and Sydney were to miss the finals and finish between 9th and 12th which team has had the biggest failure

 

[SA HAWK]

Brand, O'Rourke and Howe would've played more games, if they weren't coming back from injury themselves at Round 1.

Brand most definitely and most likely O'Rourke too.

Howe seems to be one of the ones that comes in for a week or 2 and then gets dropped.

Thought Stewart should have been given more than 1 game at least Hardwick has been given another crack this week.

Thought it would have been a good week to drop a name player and make a statement this week.

 

[SA HAWK]

Clarko clearly thought his veteran team was still a contender. You dont need to play kids when you are contending, senior blokes like Henderson and Vickery will fill a role instead and the Hawks would keep winning.

Whoops.

They obviously overrated where the list was at bringing those 2 into the club.

Henderson dropped this week and i wouldn't play him again unless we have major injury issues.

 

[doppleganger]

Here's a question for you though. Keeping in mind the state of each of our lists, if Hawthorn were to finish bottom 4, and Sydney were to miss the finals and finish between 9th and 12th which team has had the biggest failure

Hawthorn have read it wrong. Clearly not in rebuild mode, so a bottom 4 finish after giving away 1st and 2nd round draft picks is not what they would have planned.

 

[doppleganger]

They obviously overrated where the list was at bringing those 2 into the club.

Henderson dropped this week and i wouldn't play him again unless we have major injury issues.

That is my read on it.

Isn't Dunstall big on understanding where your list is at? Wonder what his view is?

Yes, Collingwood are fecked too by the way as we are just stuck in no man's land.

 

[SA HAWK]

That is my read on it.

Isn't Dunstall big on understanding where your list is at? Wonder what his view is?

Yes, Collingwood are fecked too by the way as we are just stuck in no man's land.

Dunstall called it very early last year that we couldn't win the flag and people thought he was crazy.

Pretty sure he said the other week we were in for some hard times.

 

[Tbonefreo]

let me say this after you said that...

bulldogs aren't about anything other than small triggers of the heart.
penetration is an in ground thing that only certain teams can work on.
so they will travel only as far as their lifelong message will take them...

this is something that only certain types of people will understand.
history repeats only when it resonates with the larger family.

Quality cringe right there

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Clarko clearly thought his veteran team was still a contender. You dont need to play kids when you are contending, senior blokes like Henderson and Vickery will fill a role instead and the Hawks would keep winning.

Whoops.

Contending would have been the best case scenario, but regardless, Clarkson wanted Vickery and Henderson to come in and play roles which his gameplan requires(Hale and Hill).

Right now Vickery hasn't cut it which isn't helped by trying to learn to play in a forward line that is not functioning well at all. Henderson has actually been ok, but he's not the future, so he must make way.

 

[hk89]

Why are you only looking at the r5 named teams?

Why ignore the round 5 team? It reflects what we are doing right now. We are rotating kids through in small doses, agree with it or not, this seems to be how we've always done it under Clarkson. Perhaps the idea is to give them a small taste and then have then go back to work on their weak points at Box Hill. Frustrates fans, who would prefer the youngsters to get a longer run at it.

Sydney have been forced to push kids for longer periods due to injuries. It is harder for us to do more than we have been because we've introduced Henderson, JOM, Mitchell and Vickery into the senior side all at once, and the coaching staff probably doesn't want to churn half the side which is what would be required to play much more youth than we are playing this weekend. Yes, they may have misread what was an achievable goal at season start, and have reassessed after 4 rounds. Our entire bench looks like it is all about youth development this week , and that doesn't include Sicily and Burton who are named in the starting 18. I don't think we'll play more kids than you'll see this weekend until finals are mathematically impossible, and frankly I wouldn't want them to. Historically, teams that have tried to build too quickly by throwing out all their senior players haven't fared well. Melbourne is now only just recovering from exactly that approach.

 

[Andronicus]

A partial team using Sydney guys who have played 3 or more games to date in 2017, but have played less than 25 games at rhe start of the season

B - Marsh
HB - Mills, Allir, Newman
C - Hewett, Florent
HF - Fox
F - Hayward
Foll - Naismith, Foote

Longmire is clearly actually playing plenty of kids, more than he would have wanted due to absence of senior players...surprising they have actually been competitive at all.

The equivalent Hawthorn team

B -
HB -
C -
HF -
F -
FOLL -
IC - Burton

Probably a bit more appropriate there.......

 

[PACatter]

I'm thinking Hawthorn becomes a disaster situation and three years from now is begging for a comp pick...

#FreePickHawthorn