News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Yardie]

It is the reality of the situation. This whole thing was nuanced from start to finish, it wasn’t black and white.


Hawthorn had to stand its ground, but ultimately couldn’t win by doing so.

Apart from the news that the players and staff poured their hearts out to each other and managed to work through most of the ill-feeling with acknowledgment and understanding, Niall says what we already knew, in reality, regarding Hawthorn having no real way of ‘winning’ this thing and eventually coming to the conclusion that settlement was the only path forward.

I agree with what you are saying, however, IMO Niall is basically saying we should have paid out the players earlier to effectively shut them up.

I think the club got to a reasonable position that allowed this to be resolved that satisfied the two parties named in the dispute.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I agree with what you are saying, however, IMO Niall is basically saying we should have paid out the players earlier to effectively shut them up.

I think the club got to a reasonable position that allowed this to be resolved that satisfied the two parties named in the dispute.

Maybe we should have. It’s easy to say in hindsight.

 

[eldorado]

I have nothing of note to add except that my main fervent hope from here on in is that Cyril can somehow reconcile with the club at some stage in the future.

I would do a happy dance seeing Cyril back under our wing.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I have nothing of note to add except that my main fervent hope from here on in is that Cyril can somehow reconcile with the club at some stage in the future.

I would do a happy dance seeing Cyril back under our wing.

Maybe there is a good reason we are playing in Darwin next year!

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

I have nothing of note to add except that my main fervent hope from here on in is that Cyril can somehow reconcile with the club at some stage in the future.

I would do a happy dance seeing Cyril back under our wing.

Sad to say, but I dont think it will happen any time soon. He was adored and loved by this club and it supporters and nobody ever had a bad thing to say about him. And yet look what has transpired. Whilst there is that same external influence, there is little to no chance of that changing.

 

[kazzooka]

What more did you want to go public? The court documented responses to the claims from the club (much of it that included references to evidence in the form of SMS and emails) made it pretty clear that largely what was claimed was a matter of personal perspective. Playing it out in court would have just been an expensive and hurtful spectacle for the players, families and former staff.

Nothing has been swept under a rug here. The claims are public, the refutations along with evidence are public.

Essentially the club has shown evidence that it was a matter of genuine misunderstandings and unique cultural perspectives but are apologising for what they acknowledge as the real hurt that it caused them, and committed to actions that should prevent that type of thing from happening again.

I think that's kind of what happened, they made there allegations (many with the caveat "text messages are no longer available to the claimant" and we lodged our responses (with some strong evidence in the form of email and text). We tried to settle before hand, because defending the claims in court means we had to release some of the embarrassing information like Paterson apparently smoking weed before a final and showing up. If we go to court both parties need to really test the allegations in a hurtful way.

So we either proceed to court where there isn't enough evidence for some of their legitimate claims to be substantiated and the relationship is soured forever, or we settle and work on mending relationships and improving and keep the nastiness about what past staff members may or may not have done to past players in the past.

Hopefully Cyril and co can forgive the club. I really don't care if these players ever reconcile with clarkson, fagan, burt, kennett etc, as long as they can feel welcome back at the club knowing that the current and future indigenous players will have a different experience AND that their contributions to the club on-field and through this feedback is appreciated and has improved the club.

 

[kazzooka]

Maybe there is a good reason we are playing in Darwin next year!

Against his cousin too so hopefully he makes an appearance.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

Where is Brad Sue Well?

 

[thehardway]

Just my opinion but after reading the allegations/rebuttals I thought the players/partners case was very weak and unlikely to succeed. I think the players/partners in conjunction with their legal team then softened their demands allowing for a negotiated settlement which is what the HFC always wanted. It was just becoming a big legal money pit. It does though mean that the allegations/rebuttals will never be tested in court and there will always be a cloud over the accused. But we move on and the healing process can begin.

 

[peetoo]

Grinds my gears. It wasn’t about winning it was about getting an acceptable resolution.
Which was always hawthorns intention, from the beginning, even if it was naive and clumsy in hindsight

That paper is a shadow of what it once was

 

[peetoo]

Jake has chosen to write a very 'safe' and 'correct' piece that isn't necessarily accurate.

At least he has correctly stated it is his opinion.

View attachment 2171504

Pathetic headline. No winners needed

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Pathetic headline. No winners needed

Yep, don’t know why there needed to be a winner

 

[bigmaxi]

For me I am glad it is over, a process was followed, albeit somewhat convoluted, the aggrieved have been placated as much as can be, apologies offered and accepted , monies have changed hands. The fingers can now stop wagging.
My biggest take from this personally is the media takes another hit in my eyes. Shame on them, the coverage of this whole event sadly lacked from anyone in the media with the empathy, compassion and comprehension to make a relevant and unbiased reportable observation. No headline no pay check.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hawks committed to repairing relationships after racism saga ends

Hawthorn president Andrew Gowers has spoken days after the club settled its Federal Court battle with several Indigenous former players

www.afl.com.au

 

[Bill Keenon]

Still no concern expressed for our libelled coaches.

 

[arupist]

Still no concern expressed for our libelled coaches.

Yet to be proven.

 

[HedgeFund]

Yet to be proven.

Please stop being sensible.

 

[arupist]

Please stop being sensible.

Sorry. Sometimes I forget where I am.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Yet to be proven.

Wait a minute. If we accept the players made their charges in good faith and feel hurt, even if evidence backing much of them isn’t available, then surely we accept the coaches’ good faith in feeling feel libelled.

 

[TONYC3163]

Wait a minute. If we accept the players made their charges in good faith and feel hurt, even if evidence backing much of them isn’t available, then surely we accept the coaches’ good faith in feeling feel libelled.

Feeling libelled and being libelled are two different things.

 

[HawthornHawk]

Hawks committed to repairing relationships after racism saga ends

Hawthorn president Andrew Gowers has spoken days after the club settled its Federal Court battle with several Indigenous former players

www.afl.com.au

Not everyone is going to love the results but this guy is just quietly getting things done. If we can get Cyril back into the fold and we move into Dingley next year his presidency will already be a massive success imo.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wait a minute. If we accept the players made their charges in good faith and feel hurt, even if evidence backing much of them isn’t available, then surely we accept the coaches’ good faith in feeling feel libelled.

This is a silly argument.

Players made their claims based on actions, perceptions, and feelings regarding how they were treated or made to feel… “libel” strictly relates to published false or defaming statements, of which the players and Hawthorn football club did neither.

One scenario is open to interpretation, and with the lack of clear evidence cannot be ruled in or ruled out, which is why we’ve had the outcome that we’ve had, while the other scenario is clear cut.

 

[DogDaySonny]

This is a silly argument.

Players made their claims based on actions, perceptions, and feelings regarding how they were treated or made to feel… “libel” strictly relates to published false or defaming statements, of which the players and Hawthorn football club did neither.

One scenario is open to interpretation, and with the lack of clear evidence cannot be ruled in or ruled out, which is why we’ve had the outcome that we’ve had, while the other scenario is clear cut.

In the museum of silly arguments, put this one on a pedestal. If it’s open to interpretation as to whether the players’ accusations can be ruled in or out, then libel has by definition been met. An unproven accusation is textbook libel. By claiming your first argument, you concede the second is wrong.

Further, if you’re itching to say libel hasn’t been proven in court then you’re conceding the players’ claims are also unproven and equally invalid.

Lastly, the settlement explicitly does not resolve the issue or concede any factual position. It acknowledges people are angry and pays money for them to stop complaining about it, despite the fact that the club disputes the merits of the issues behind the anger.

You are trying to live the classic cliche of trying to have your cake and eat it too. Of course, you won’t recognise this or even concede the possibility that you were wrong about something, but nonetheless you are.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

In the museum of silly arguments, put this one on a pedestal. If it’s open to interpretation as to whether the players’ accusations can be ruled in or out, then libel has by definition been met. An unproven accusation is textbook libel. By claiming your first argument, you concede the second is wrong.

Further, if you’re itching to say libel hasn’t been proven in court then you’re conceding the players’ claims are also unproven and equally invalid.

Lastly, the settlement explicitly does not resolve the issue or concede any factual position. It acknowledges people are angry and pays money for them to stop complaining about it, despite the fact that the club disputes the merits of the issues behind the anger.

You are trying to live the classic cliche of trying to have your cake and eat it too. Of course, you won’t recognise this or even concede the possibility that you were wrong about something, but nonetheless you are.

Fail.

There is no libel claim, when the players did not publicly make or publish any statements regarding the coaches and no outcome was found in any court.

And if you want to suggest that the media did make libel claims then once again it will be explained to you that media reporting on allegations is just that.

 

[Lickmesocks]

The news paper that chose to print peoples names might be in strife.