News Hawthorn Racism Review - No player name speculation - opposition posters tread very carefully

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wrong. Hawks did what they had to do by the rules of the AFL.

Correct. For reference below, once the HFC had the report outlining serious allegations they were duty bound by the AFL’s protocol to hand over the report to the AFL integrity unit.

I will pin this post, as it seems to be a constant query.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

You sound like a snowflake Izzy fan
Stay away from my dog!!!

 

[Hawkthorn33]

I would say that the club has indeed improved in this area based on how they tried to look after Brocky when he was here.

The elephant in the room here however is the fact that since JML was drafted and a lot of the guts of these accusations occurred, we have only drafted one indigenous player. That's one indigenous player in 10 years. I'm guessing that wouldn't stack up particularly well against the rest of the league.

I agree with both of your points that the club has shown improvement in the area of cultural sensitivity and only drafting one indigenous player in the past 10 years is an outlier compared to other clubs. However we should note that the club has acquired multiple Indigenous players over this period via trades, so it may be more a reason of talent identification and positional fit over any other sinister notion. This is all speculation on my behalf of course.

 

[HawthornHawk]

We’ve also recuited multiple Indigenous players however - Wingard, Amon, Impey. I don’t think it’s quite the elephant you make out - it’s not as if we have clearly avoided a prodigiously talented Indigenous kid in that time.

I agree with both of your points that the club has shown improvement in the area of cultural sensitivity and only drafting one indigenous player in the past 10 years is an outlier compared to other clubs. However we should note that the club has acquired multiple Indigenous players over this period via trades, so it may be more a reason of talent identification and positional fit over any other sinister notion. This is all speculation on my behalf of course.

The 3 guys we recruited were seasoned AFL pros in their mid to late 20's who were all coincidentally from the same club.

The fact remains that in the 8 years preceding JML's draft year, we drafted at least one indigenous kid per year on average. Since then it's been one in ten years. This is a problem elsewhere in the league, but i'm guessing the numbers aren't as stark.

 

[Mercy Seat]

The 3 guys we recruited were seasoned AFL pros in their mid to late 20's who were all coincidentally from the same club.

The fact remains that in the 8 years preceding JML's draft year, we drafted at least one indigenous kid per year on average. Since then it's been one in ten years. This is a problem elsewhere in the league, but i'm guessing the numbers aren't as stark.

We barely went to the draft for about 5 years and since then there has been an unfortunate decline in Indigenous talent across the league.

I can’t think of anyone obvious around our picks who we didn’t pick at the draft who was Indigenous. We’ve had a bunch of father sons and at least one (or 2..?) NGA picks so our spots have been at a premium the past few years as we’ve rebuilt.

I would love to see more young First Nation talent on our list, but I’m not sure there’s anything nefarious going on.

 

[Bugs1977]

We barely went to the draft for about 5 years and since then there has been an unfortunate decline in Indigenous talent across the league.

I can’t think of anyone obvious around our picks who we didn’t pick at the draft who was Indigenous. We’ve had a bunch of father sons and at least one (or 2..?) NGA picks so our spots have been at a premium the past few years as we’ve rebuilt.

I would love to see more young First Nation talent on our list, but I’m not sure there’s anything nefarious going on.

The bummers also snapped up Irving Mosquito (2018) who was in our NGA. Also worth pointing out that the decline of indigenous kids being drafted is a league wide problem atm.

 

[brad sue well]

The 3 guys we recruited were seasoned AFL pros in their mid to late 20's who were all coincidentally from the same club.

The fact remains that in the 8 years preceding JML's draft year, we drafted at least one indigenous kid per year on average. Since then it's been one in ten years. This is a problem elsewhere in the league, but i'm guessing the numbers aren't as stark.

I don't think it was a complete coincidence all are from PA, who have perhaps the best off-field support for Indigenous players but I get your overall point here and earlier. Dare I say it, '[cultural] safety in numbers'.

To highlight that we looked after Brockman well is one example and I have no knowledge beyond what is in the media, it does seem good and obvious the club reacted to make sure he was looked after. The overall issue is people and practice needs to be embedded over time and picking out a highlight, even if good, should be the norm. I am not saying you are picking and choosing. It is not my story to tell but the recruitment at the time in question was done very, very well for one player that I know of. Culturally respectful. Player couldn't wait to fulfil his dream, the Family Club, felt embraced etc. As I have posted earlier, an AFLPA document is a 'how to' guide and was sitting in a PDM office I was in at the time (at another club) so was well an truly known across the industry. It is public knowledge that Amos Frank's community, APY Land Elders were also asked permission to draft him, some of the support he received seemed very inclusive.

I think it is fair to say the layer of cultural caution will always exist in the AFL as it exists in society. I am told the reduction in draftees does seem influenced by what is happening in the industry. Who knows for sure but it doesn't help.

HFC has a way to go and it seems CFC and really the industry. We can't even get our head around diversity in the commentary box! We know teams take time to gel, some faster than others yet we can't be patient with the idea of diversity. Most dislike a commentator or two, how about that person makes way for a trained 'diversity hire' and give them a go. Heck, watching the Boomers I had to listen to a one out commentator tell me things even me as a casual viewer knew were factually wrong.

 

[Lickmesocks]

There is only one respondent (defendant) - the HFC.
Birchall, Clarkson, Fagan and others are not parties to the proceeding.

The club is vicariously liable for the conduct of its employees (including Birchall).

Although to test the truth or otherwise of the allegations Clarkson/Fagan/Burt/Others will all have to be called upon to appear in court and be cross examined. Maybe not Birchall as it doesn't appear the incident involving him is in dispute.

This is the question I was going to ask someone with a legal mind.

If the club calls on these individuals as witnesses can they refuse to appear?

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Clarkson also has good relationships with Burgoyne and Bateman.

Both players and family speak highly of the HFC.

I noticed someone mentioned Brad Hill returning to Melbourne, according to the media the Hawks were asked if they were interested in Hill returning. How ever the saints pay check appealed more, which is understandable he already has 3 premierships to his name.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Racist name said to Cyril- Humphrey B. Bear....

 

[Billyc]

This is the question I was going to ask someone with a legal mind.

If the club calls on these individuals as witnesses can they refuse to appear?

Not if subpoenaed.

 

[kazzooka]

I would say that the club has indeed improved in this area based on how they tried to look after Brocky when he was here.

The elephant in the room here however is the fact that since JML was drafted and a lot of the guts of these accusations occurred, we have only drafted one indigenous player. That's one indigenous player in 10 years. I'm guessing that wouldn't stack up particularly well against the rest of the league.

Without going back and checking we've drafted Brockman and Walker since then and traded/FA selected Amon, Wingard and Impy. We also chased after Henry.

What i think the real elephant in the room is, we've had many indigenous players leave the club when they had AFL level football left in them.. Rhan Hooper, Carl Peterson, Jed Anderson, Lance Franklin, Brad Hill, Cyril Rioli then those that we didn't develop to AFL level, Wangeneen, Walker, Miller-Lewis, Amos Frank, Stokes, Garlett, harry Miller.

Only Burgoyne and Bateman finished their careers with a retirement from Clarkson era (Cyril excluded as it was more him quiting the club than a retirement.)

 

[Lickmesocks]

I wonder if Clarko had completely lost the plot when he allegedly turned up to a serious meeting with a guitar and started singing.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Not if subpoenaed.

Interesting point

Although we dont have the constitutional right to “plead the 5th”, there are some rights in Australia around non-defendants being allowed to not testify due to fears of self incrimination. I dont know these in detail, and it might be different in Federal Court. I would think Clarko and co would want to plead their position based on their past protestations of innocence.

If they don’t testify, and Hawks accept the claim, or the Judge finds for the plaintiffs, Clarko and co are in trouble.

 

[Steven Tyler]

I wonder if Clarko had completely lost the plot when he allegedly turned up to a serious meeting with a guitar and started singing.

Forcing new draftees to sing Christmas carols to strangers door to door should’ve raised a few questions imho

 

[eldorado]

I wonder how much of all this has stemmed from, or at least was greatly exacerbated by, what was perceived by the indigenous players as a very unsatisfactory response from the club to the Adam Goodes situation.

Who knows what effect a more robust and supportive response may have had.

 

[CHUBBSS]

In some ways I can see why the hfc wanted this to go to court, I think a payout occurs instead of the case from here though.

I think this case will become the defining case for all clubs and how they manage compliance of players welfare, not just First Nations but all players. Best practice, staff support, better documentation, meeting minutes, cultural understanding - all factors for clubs moving forward, as per most businesses as well

 

[lethalselbow]

Forcing new draftees to sing Christmas carols to strangers door to door should’ve raised a few questions imho

Spreading xmas joy is so hateful...

 

[Walshawk]

I wonder if Clarko had completely lost the plot when he allegedly turned up to a serious meeting with a guitar and started singing.

He is as batsh1t crazy as Sheedy. Possibly more so.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

We’ve also recuited multiple Indigenous players however - Wingard, Amon, Impey. I don’t think it’s quite the elephant you make out - it’s not as if we have clearly avoided a prodigiously talented Indigenous kid in that time.

.....only those that haven't shown they can cope in an AFL environment.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

.....only those that haven't shown they can cope in an AFL environment.

How many non-indigenous players have copped the same treatment though?

It comes back to being a giant douche or a turd sandwhich

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Forcing new draftees to sing Christmas carols to strangers door to door should’ve raised a few questions imho

Buying someone a dog without their consent is really weird too - and particularly unfair on the unwanted dog.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Spreading xmas joy is so hateful...

Nobody said it was hateful - but it is weird. You can even see some of the members they are doing it for looking awkward as hell while it is happening.

 

[lethalselbow]

Pathetically, many are just Clarko bashing without actually hearing him have a say.

 

[brad sue well]

In some ways I can see why the hfc wanted this to go to court, I think a payout occurs instead of the case from here though.

I think this case will become the defining case for all clubs and how they manage compliance of players welfare, not just First Nations but all players. Best practice, staff support, better documentation, meeting minutes, cultural understanding - all factors for clubs moving forward, as per most businesses as well

This hasn't seemed to get the Do Better Report levels though... when does the industry properly go for it? General question, not at you CHUBBSS.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Pathetically, many are just Clarko bashing without actually hearing him have a say.

I am only 'bashing' him based on things he has actually done - not that he is alleged to have done. Keep white knighting for the bloke if it makes you feel good though.