NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[Proper Gander]

I like the way you think. Someone tell Clarko to shut up!

Someone already has I would say.

He’s refusing to speak even when invited, other than to throw grenades at a process not yet determined. Looks like the plan is to ride it out, avoid any type of investigation by having a team of lawyers fine-tooth the proposed inquiry, and claim lack of natural justice.

 

[Dee Train]

Celebrating superiority since 2021.
That's your tag under 'Dee Train'.
Pretty apt.

Good one mate

 

[Brown Bottle]

Still no right of reply afforded to the former HFC officials? So disappointing. Why won’t anyone air this “other side” we keep being told that we need to hear?

 

[Maddo11]

Going to be a lot of egg on faces of the virtue signalling woke folk in this thread when the truth comes out

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

VIRTUE SIGNALLING

Mark "virtue signalling" off the bingo card as well folks.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Will you apologise to me when I'm proven right and will you admit on this forum you were wrong.

Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk

Will youapologize to the Indigenous community for for stereotyping racism

 

[perplexed]

I’m not certain that a Worksafe investigation on its own will have sufficient coverage do deal with all of the issues presented, though they can make a case if they can find sufficient evidence of an offence, which could (and likely would) be appealed, and while they have monitoring, investigative and enforcement powers under a range of legislation, I don’t think that they have the capability to examine the issue of potential human rights abuses, or make full and useful determinations around cultural safety across industries. And last I heard, the proposed regulations that have been developed to look at occupational health and safety (Psychological Health) are still subject to stakeholder consultation and won’t be further progressed until 2023. So I don’t think they have the power to consider appropriate redress to victims in all circumstances, including these.

Which doesn’t mean that the Worksafe investigation shouldn’t happen, it should, but I think it needs to run parallel to another probe. The Essendon Football Club was investigated on more fronts then just Worksafe, for example.

It is going to be drawn out and ugly. Not so much for Clarkson, Fagan and Burt. They get to maintain silence, falsely claim that they haven’t had an opportunity to tell their story (nothing stopping you, guys) and relax while all their buddies come to their defence. Luke Hodge weighs in to emphatically throw his support behind them, and in doing so discredits the claims of his former teammates - and reduce serious allegations to some status where ”tough love was great for me”. Hardwick launches in with the poor Clarkson, subject to ‘distasteful circumstances’ and again repeats the lie that his buddy hasn’t been allowed to put his side of the story. And follows up with some bollocks about how we all need to work together to learn. His statement sucks - and underlines the point that Eddie Betts has been making for a very long time, that people seem to think that First Nations People have some kind of responsibility for the fact that they are treated like s**t by various campaigners. Plus why on earth does anyone in this century need to learn to consider other cultural perspectives, or even overall not be a massive Arsehat to employees over whom you have power? Should be a given surely? Oh and Kennett, having announced a review and got a bit more than he bargained for, stood in front of Hawthorn members to say that this won’t be an issue really and is a bit of a nothing-burger so all good.

So much for ‘due process’. With every day that passes, the media machine strengthens to persuade that the coaches haven’t been given a fair go, and have been denied their right to speak (false), and that the allegations are false, or the people making them are sus, or too stupid to recognise a good bloke favour when they see it.

Whilst his lawyers have likely told him to shut up, I'm not sure how Clarkson can adequately address any of the specific claims whilst maintaining the anonymity of the players.

 

[Gough]

yeah people talking about how good it will be because worksafe will remove the racism element from their investigation are really missing the point

A step in the right direction for investigations being taken out of the AFL's hands and given to people who care about outcome more than reputations.

 

[Descent]

Your comments are plain wrong and in fact offensive. You're either completely mistaken or deliberately sprouting falsehoods to suit your narrative.

I did say it was a stitch up but only because this is playing out in the media. I want to hear from both sides. At NO point have I commented on the veracity or other of the commentary in the report.

Play fair champ.

A stitch up is a manipulation such that someone is WRONGLY blamed. If you called it a stitch up, then you either have a different understanding of the term to everyone else, or you are saying that the blame is based on falsehoods. Which one is it?

 

[Dangerousfield]

Two sides of this story, one side is lying, which one?

 

[Descent]

Posts a lot on the North board and it's mostly right-wing garbage

TBF I would expect Kennett to be better at concealing his football affiliations than his rampant bigotry.

Edit: I should say, this person is categorically not Kennett – his typing lacks the characteristic spelling mistakes and terrible punctuation that so clearly characterise talentless boomers like Kennett.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Two sides of this story, one side is lying, which one?

I don't think it's that simple.

Clarkson and Fagan haven't denied that these things happened. They almost appear to acknowledge it.

 

[rado]

A stitch up is a manipulation such that someone is WRONGLY blamed. If you called it a stitch up, then you either have a different understanding of the term to everyone else, or you are saying that the blame is based on falsehoods. Which one is it?

Unfortunately, when fair process is raised, it’s interpreted as a defence of the accused. In the fullness of time and genuine inquiry of all allegations, if accusations are upheld, then informed views regarding the accused can be made.

Just for the record, Indigenous respondents to the commissioned report by HFC requested and were provided anonymity. Respondents subsequent to the inquiry spoke to the media under anonymity and levelled claims against named individuals which have now been published.

Many in this room believe publishing this information was correct, to not only highlight allegations of a public nature but to also force further investigation.

Everyone’s entitled to their view, but for mine the train of inquiry by the HFC was already in motion, via passing to AFL integrity, Worksafe and potentially others we’re yet to hear about, including over-site by Phil Egan who would not sit idle whilst this was pushed under the rug and by consequence ensure public accountability is obtained.

 

[Proper Gander]

Whilst his lawyers have likely told him to shut up, I'm not sure how Clarkson can adequately address any of the specific claims whilst maintaining the anonymity of the players.

I don’t personally think he intends to adequately address specific claims. The course of action seems to be to undermine the process before it starts, which means he never has to address anything.

Other than have his buddies all come out of the woodwork concerned about his mental health. Well, quite, but emails have already emerged showing a seriously distressed and desperate pregnant woman, subject to having a ’convoy of cars’ roll up, three powerful men invite themselves in, tell her that her partner is leaving - no explanations - order him out of the house and make him uncontactable. While she is pregnant with their child. And all she can do is to persistently contact the club and ask to talk to someone to understand what is going on, and she was dismissed with the excuse of ‘out of my remit and expertise’ without even being pointed in the direction of anyone she could talk to.

There are some real mental health risks in all of this, the coaches defenders don’t seem to have much sense of where the priority lies though.

 

[Toump Ass]

Two sides of this story, one side is lying, which one?

Or neither side is lying and it's just a matter of perspective.
Clarko believes he was helping a player get the best out of themselves, the player reckons the way they were bullied/intimidated.

 

[travelli]

I don't think it's that simple.

Clarkson and Fagan haven't denied that these things happened. They almost appear to acknowledge it.

Clarkson "vehemently denied the allegations against him"

 

[mcnulty]

I don't think it's that simple.

Clarkson and Fagan haven't denied that these things happened. They almost appear to acknowledge it.

“I have no option but to express publicly, in the strongest and most emphatic terms possible, that I did not behave in the manner claimed.”

 

[Curly5]

Unfortunately, when fair process is raised, it’s interpreted as a defence of the accused. In the fullness of time and genuine inquiry of all allegations, if accusations are upheld, then informed views regarding the accused can be made.

Just for the record, Indigenous respondents to the commissioned report by HFC requested and were provided anonymity. Respondents subsequent to the inquiry spoke to the media under anonymity and levelled claims against named individuals which have now been published.

Many in this room believe publishing this information was correct, to not only highlight allegations of a public nature but to also force further investigation.

Everyone’s entitled to their view, but for mine the train of inquiry by the HFC was already in motion, via passing to AFL integrity, Worksafe and potentially others we’re yet to hear about, including over-site by Phil Egan who would not sit idle whilst this was pushed under the rug and by consequence ensure public accountability is obtained.

They must have known that the anonymity was temporary at best. There are so few of them and the stories are unique, Clarkson and co, and the club, and possibly teammates would know immediately who they are. Clarkson could have straightaway said I know who these guys are and I'll tell you what really happened, but they've chosen to maintain the anonymity instead. They certainly don't have to, if self-preservation is the priority.

 

[iameviljez]

Or neither side is lying and it's just a matter of perspective.
Clarko believes he was helping a player get the best out of themselves, the player reckons the way they were bullied/intimidated.

I think there are some very blunt points of difference which are beyond interpretation, though:

• Clarkson did or did not encourage the termination of the pregnancy
• The football club did or did not encourage/pressure the players to leave their partners
• The football club did or did not encourage/pressure the players to change their SIM cards and break communication
• The football club did or did not hinder the partners from getting in contact with the players
• Clarkson and Fagan were or were not in the meetings when these events occurred if they did

There's no grey in these matters IMO.

 

[iameviljez]

A step in the right direction for investigations being taken out of the AFL's hands and given to people who care about outcome more than reputations.

Agreed. The AFL stands to lose out if the investigation is seen as too soft, or, alternatively, if it brings up facts the AFL would much prefer to hide.

 

[iameviljez]

Many in this room believe publishing this information was correct, to not only highlight allegations of a public nature but to also force further investigation.

Everyone’s entitled to their view, but for mine the train of inquiry by the HFC was already in motion, via passing to AFL integrity, Worksafe and potentially others we’re yet to hear about, including over-site by Phil Egan who would not sit idle whilst this was pushed under the rug and by consequence ensure public accountability is obtained.

The AFL has a history of sweeping unpleasantness under the carpet - the concussion study is a prime, prime example.

 

[Randomizor]

Think they're coordinating with Essendon's "other side" of the peptide drama, they'll knock them both off at a joint press conference

Definitely worried this is going to end up like the Essendon scandal where the AFL did their best to try and sweep it under the rug and declare them innocent, before a competent organisation had no choice to step in and actually look at the evidence

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Definitely worried this is going to end up like the Essendon scandal where the AFL did their best to try and sweep it under the rug and declare them innocent, before a competent organisation had no choice to step in and actually look at the evidence

I'd suggest we're already at that stage!

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Clarkson "vehemently denied the allegations against him"

"I did not behave in the manner claimed."


"I must state that my clear memory of the matters reported is very different."


This reads to me, that he's not denying that these things actually occurred, only that he saw it differently - or has an excuse for it.

It's vague. And I'd dare say purposely vague.

 

[JammoMonty]

Definitely worried this is going to end up like the Essendon scandal where the AFL did their best to try and sweep it under the rug and declare them innocent, before a competent organisation had no choice to step in and actually look at the evidence

And until then Brisbane and North have no coach?? Can’t see the AFL not resolving this in time for the 2023 season

 

[Toump Ass]

I think there are some very blunt points of difference which are beyond interpretation, though:

• Clarkson did or did not encourage the termination of the pregnancy
• The football club did or did not encourage/pressure the players to leave their partners
• The football club did or did not encourage/pressure the players to change their SIM cards and break communication
• The football club did or did not hinder the partners from getting in contact with the players
• Clarkson and Fagan were or were not in the meetings when these events occurred if they did

There's no grey in these matters IMO.

Sure, assuming Hawthorn haven't spent their time before the story throwing their harddrives against a wall, it should be easy to establish some of the facts at least.
I'd like to think Clarko/Fago/Burto were just really misguided rather than pure evil, I could be wrong though.

And FWIW I reckon Clarko is a campaigner regardless of whether not he genuinely believed he was helping his players.