News Hawthorn Racism Scandal

[Launchpad McQuack]

It was one of the accused - Jason Burt - who did that on his Facebook account on Wednesday with this statement:

“I also think it’s important to clarify that “Zac” and “Kylie”, who continue to make allegations to the media, are not indigenous Australians.”

The person he was referring to was Māori, not Australian Indigenous. But he didn't mention that did he - because that wasn't the point of his little 'gotcha' moment was it? And of course it doesn't change the nature of the allegations and their consequences one little bit.

This, from a guy who was Hawthorn 'Player Welfare Manager' at the time the incidents are said to have occurred.

Draw your own conclusions.

TIL intimidating non-Aboriginal and non-Torres Strait islander players and their partners into ending relationships and aborting pregnancies has no impact on their welfare.

What a absolute moron.

 

[backtozero]

Clarkson might be a good coach, but he's always come across as a ruthless bully with short man syndrome. That dog hit during an exhibition game gives a good insight into his character.

He's spent years punching walls and interchange benches and the talking heads always excused him for it because they love the passion.
He should have been told to pull his head in.

 

[sobrave]

He's spent years punching walls and interchange benches and the talking heads always excused him for it because they love the passion.
He should have been told to pull his head in.

Someone who clearly can't control their anger like that, you wonder what their personal life is like

 

[TeeKray]

I'm starting to get an image of the three accused based on their reactions over the course of this saga.

Clarkson to me is an angry, volatile man who overstepped the mark in pursuit of success. I think deep down he's probably sorry for what happened.

Fagan comes across as an arrogant bully. Cold and unsympathetic to those who experience the world differently from him. He more than Clarkson is the face of institutionalised racism.

Burt as the welfare guy probably genuinely cared about the players. He was likely a bystander who didn't have the courage to take issue with what the others were saying and doing. And now he's backed into a corner and doesn't know what to do but fight.

 

[Janey]

It was one of the accused - Jason Burt - who did that on his Facebook account on Wednesday with this statement:

“I also think it’s important to clarify that “Zac” and “Kylie”, who continue to make allegations to the media, are not indigenous Australians.”

The person he was referring to was Māori, not Australian Indigenous. But he didn't mention that did he - because that wasn't the point of his little 'gotcha' moment was it? And of course it doesn't change the nature of the allegations and their consequences one little bit.

This, from a guy who was Hawthorn 'Player Welfare Manager' at the time the incidents are said to have occurred.

Draw your own conclusions.

But make no mistake - Burt's attempt to set a particular narrative and 'out' the players involved, just like Fagan's threat to name the players in Supreme Court action, played no small part in the issue and wording of the statement by the families yesterday.

Yes, that’s where I read it, and your comment about his motive makes sense now.

 

[Schulzenfest]

I'm starting to get an image of the three accused based on their reactions over the course of this saga.

Clarkson to me is an angry, volatile man who overstepped the mark in pursuit of success. I think deep down he's probably sorry for what happened.

Fagan comes across as an arrogant bully. Cold and unsympathetic to those who experience the world differently from him. He more than Clarkson is the face of institutionalised racism.

Burt as the welfare guy probably genuinely cared about the players. He was likely a bystander who didn't have the courage to take issue with what the others were saying and doing. And now he's backed into a corner and doesn't know what to do but fight.

Can't agree, Burt seems like the worst of the lot IMO. Agreeing that he overstepped the mark but refusing to apologise for it, and playing the 'bUt oNe oF tHeM iSnT iNdIgEnOuS' card like that means something, and in what seemed to me to be a deliberate attempt to out the player and expose them and their family to all the horrid racial abuse that would inevitably follow without actually naming them (there can't have been many Māori players on Hawthorn's list at the relevant time). This would all be disgraceful behaviour from anyone, but it's particularly disgraceful from the guy who was supposed to be in charge of player welfare.

 

[raptalia]

How many accusers are there? In this morning's press there six accusers have outed themselves among them Cyril Rioli. Not surprisingly the accusers say they feel 'gutted' by the findings of the AFL investigation. They all apparently taking their grievances to the Human Rights Commission which id probably the best place to put their case.

In the article one of the number is quoted as saying they reached and agreement with the AFL. They are apparently satisfied with the AFL's apology but not with it's failure to name Clarkson, Fagan and Hawthorn as being in the wrong. It also sounds like they also want some heads on a pike hence the action in the Human Rights Commission.

None of this should surprise us.

 

[DaTBird187]

Stephen Fry at a toga party?

With the kind of 'Toga Parties' Stephen Fry would go too, I hope he's washing more than his hands.

 

[Festerz]

There was something a little “off” about the way it was all dumped publicly at a hastily-convened news conference on Tuesday evening, a pretty unusual sort of timeslot for such a big-ticket news item.

But there was something even more off in my view about a clearly peeved departing AFL chief executive Gil McLachlan almost welcoming the suggestion that Hawthorn could be open to significant penalties, including draft sanctions, for its part in the saga.

It’s not often clubs are so transparently thrown under the bus as the AFL hierarchy seemed quite happy to do to the Hawks over the matter.

 

[Festerz]

And part of that is admitting it happened but, it was a misunderstanding.

They aren’t doing that.

Not sure who you mean by 'they'.

My reading of the Rioli and families statement is very much the acceptance that it may have been a misunderstanding with the reference to 'what we heard' and 'what impact it had on our lives'.



They also make it clear that they understand the impact that having this take place on all parties involved, including the 3 coaches/managers.




For all parties to sit down in private and to talk and listen is clearly what the families now want to do via the HRC. They make it clear it is not about money and some idiots have and continue to claim.

Maybe, just maybe there is a chance that Burt, Fagan and Clarkson will each take the time to reflect on what the families themselves have said in this statement. And to accept private mediation via the HRC.

That is the only way I think this can reach any sort of healing for those involved. And the AFL, whose interventions have just made things so much worse, can just FRO.

 

[chiwigi]

Not sure who you mean by 'they'.

My reading of the Rioli and families statement is very much the acceptance that it may have been a misunderstanding with the reference to 'what we heard' and 'what impact it had on our lives'.

View attachment 1703300

They also make it clear that they understand the impact that having this take place on all parties involved, including the 3 coaches/managers.

View attachment 1703301


For all parties to sit down in private and to talk and listen is clearly what the families now want to do via the HRC. They make it clear it is not about money and some idiots have and continue to claim.

Maybe, just maybe there is a chance that Burt, Fagan and Clarkson will each take the time to reflect on what the families themselves have said in this statement. And to accept private mediation via the HRC.

That is the only way I think this can reach any sort of healing for those involved. And the AFL, whose interventions have just made things so much worse, can just FRO.

Fagan and Clarkson.


So that was a waste of time.

 

[theouthouse]

Who holds the power in these professional relationships?

The coaches, obviously.

As players trying to make the big league, they are almost at the mercy of their coaches/selectors as to who makes it or not, that is a fair power imbalance.

In my opinion the AFL has failed dismally in setting any professional framework of the boundaries between players and coaches of what is right and what is wrong and to educate both players and coaches of their rights and non rights in this professional situation.

It takes courage to stand up to that against a power imbalance so I take my hat off to those that have. Much respect.

 

[raptalia]

For all parties to sit down in private and to talk and listen is clearly what the families now want to do via the HRC. They make it clear it is not about money and some idiots have and continue to claim.

Maybe, just maybe there is a chance that Burt, Fagan and Clarkson will each take the time to reflect on what the families themselves have said in this statement. And to accept private mediation via the HRC.

That is the only way I think this can reach any sort of healing for those involved. And the AFL, whose interventions have just made things so much worse, can just FRO.

You would have thought sitting down in private and talking things out is the way the AFL investigation would have gone, but apparently not. Maybe Clarkson, Fagan and Burt did not want to sit down and reconcile their differences with their accusers? Maybe the legal advice was not to admit anything?

The interesting thing is that Rioli has said it will not happen again. If that is the case both the AFL and Hawthorn must have undertaken to initiate a satisfactory change process in the way they deal with indigenous players. If so, it should apply to all players as no player should or his family should be subject to what is alleged to have happened. If the accusers are satisfied with the remedial action taken I can only think they want more. Perhaps they want a public admission of guilt from the accused and a public apology ?

An appeal to an independent body, if that is what the HRC is classed as, is probably the best course of action in the circumstances. It may bring all of the issues at play out into the open.

 

[Ilias M]

Remember what Racist Betts said if anyone of COLOUR says it’s racist THEN IT IS .
They’ll get the outcome they want even if it’s not true

 

[Jimmy95]

Not sure who you mean by 'they'.

My reading of the Rioli and families statement is very much the acceptance that it may have been a misunderstanding with the reference to 'what we heard' and 'what impact it had on our lives'.

View attachment 1703300

They also make it clear that they understand the impact that having this take place on all parties involved, including the 3 coaches/managers.

View attachment 1703301


For all parties to sit down in private and to talk and listen is clearly what the families now want to do via the HRC. They make it clear it is not about money and some idiots have and continue to claim.

Maybe, just maybe there is a chance that Burt, Fagan and Clarkson will each take the time to reflect on what the families themselves have said in this statement. And to accept private mediation via the HRC.

That is the only way I think this can reach any sort of healing for those involved. And the AFL, whose interventions have just made things so much worse, can just FRO.

Sensible views that the lunatic left fringe won't want to accept.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Remember what Racist Betts said if anyone of COLOUR says it’s racist THEN IT IS .
They’ll get the outcome they want even if it’s not true

 

[Power Raid]

I saw a tweet this morning from someone who took a screen shot of The Age's website yesterday and it used murderer as well in their headline. Apparently it didn't last long. Can't find that tweet now. Nick McKenzie outside the court said BRS is a War Criminal, a Bully and a Liar. That's what the print version basically went with.

a concept that is often overlooked or not understood in war is the rules of engagement

1) you can't execute a soldier who has surrendered
2) you can't execute civilians

but what you can do is anything you like to a civilian who engages in war activities. ie. you can execute them with a potato peeler, with the most gruesome death and it is not a war crime. essentially you can "legally" kill them or torture them......and essentially not be a war criminal.

whether you would want to do that for a variety of reasons is a different issue.

from what I understand, this is where BRS activities sit. but clearly he isn't comfortable being honest about his activities.

 

[MotlopRules]

Can't agree, Burt seems like the worst of the lot IMO. Agreeing that he overstepped the mark but refusing to apologise for it, and playing the 'bUt oNe oF tHeM iSnT iNdIgEnOuS' card like that means something, and in what seemed to me to be a deliberate attempt to out the player and expose them and their family to all the horrid racial abuse that would inevitably follow without actually naming them (there can't have been many Māori players on Hawthorn's list at the relevant time). This would all be disgraceful behaviour from anyone, but it's particularly disgraceful from the guy who was supposed to be in charge of player welfare.

Also this line:

“I think the grievance was Shannyn felt we weren’t doing enough in the space of cultural awareness.”

Burt added: “I think it’s Shannyn’s grievance with the club. He [Cyril] shares it now. He gave everything to our club.”

Aka the 'it's those bloody hysterical women' trope.

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[MrPower]

but the source close to him (Phil Egan) said the AFL’s investigation was expected to focus more on the governance and process of the club’s investigation, rather than family-specific details.

So the whole focus has now become "process" coz we can't make any findings of culpability coz we can't. HREOC will be a $ settlement without an admission of liability (coz we can't make any findings of culpability coz we can't). And Hawthorn's process was well intentioned but failed to follow due process= naughty boys' good boys' club=slap on wrist. Or equivalent snotty words. Add in a distraction of some sort and we're all done. Oh by the way Eddie Betts says Hi.