Hawthorn the Team most Likely: Pfft

[David the Cat]

You are right the defensive pressure in our forward line was pretty much non existent on Tuesday. The lack of competitiveness from our tall forwards in the contest compounded this. Geelong just ran the ball out at will. I thought our midfield was far too loose as well.

We lack a crumbing forward with Rioli probably being our best option there playing more in the midfield.

Some of our matchups in particular Hodge on Ling were really poor choices imo.

Yes mate, I wondered about that. I suspect that Scott wanted Hodge curbed and put Ling on him, but when Hodgey ( one of my favourite players btw ) was really making no impact, Clarkson put him in the middle for a very short period ( Ling just followed him ) then moved him into defence again, so Ling could play defensive forward...a position he enjoys and plays well.

Why didnt Clarkson put him forward for a while...??? Might have exposed Lingy a bit with a move like that.

 

[Roby]

You are right the defensive pressure in our forward line was pretty much non existent on Tuesday. The lack of competitiveness from our tall forwards in the contest compounded this. Geelong just ran the ball out at will. I thought our midfield was far too loose as well.

We lack a crumbing forward with Rioli probably being our best option there playing more in the midfield.

Some of our matchups in particular Hodge on Ling were really poor choices imo.

Despite having the same inside's 50's, Hawthorn actually had more tackles inside their 50 than Geelong. So it wasn't necessarily the forward pressure which was lacking. It was more the defensive pressure when the ball was turned over. Few players were prepared to run back as hard as they did forward. In other words there was "downhill skiing". I'm not going to name names because there was over a dozen players in that boat.

 

[FisherHawk]

Robert Campbell and Paul Dear aren't names that are going to send shivers down your spine, both premiership ruckman for Hawthorn. To that extent, ruckman are extremely overrated - see Mark Blake 2009.

Somebody like Sandilands would be a very desirable player for most clubs but he is the extreme. Probably top 10-20 in the league. We still have a very inexperienced ruck division. Renouf is only on 50 games, Hale spent the majority of time as a forward for North and Bailey....Who knows? Obviously ruckman take a lot longer to develop than most so I still have some faith in Renouf.

Paul Dear won the Norm Smith in 91. He had a great year in a star studded side. I think you mean Greg, his brother who was a pretty good ruckman.

 

[The Donners]

Somebody like Sandilands would be a very desirable player for most clubs but he is the extreme. Probably top 10-20 in the league. We still have a very inexperienced ruck division. Renouf is only on 50 games, Hale spent the majority of time as a forward for North and Bailey....Who knows? Obviously ruckman take a lot longer to develop than most so I still have some faith in Renouf.

Paul Dear won the Norm Smith in 91. He had a great year in a star studded side. I think you mean Greg, his brother who was a pretty good ruckman.

Na, I meant Paul. He was a very average ruckman. He had a great day but an ok career.

I never thought Greg was fantastic either, when you had midfielders like Brownlow medalists in Dipper and Platten etc. you didn't need a great ruckman.

Brisbane didn't have a great ruckman throughout their three-peat. Essendon didn't have a great ruckman in '93 or '00 for that matter - serviceable at best in '93.

Sure there's been teams that win premierships with great ruckman but at the end of the day, how many of their taps actually go to the advantage of their teammates?

The dinosaur ruckman could be scrapped and it wouldn't make a ripple. Sandilands is the only ruckman in the competition that I think must be stopped when Essendon play them. Mumford is heading there imho.

I think Cox is great around the ground but an average (not crap) tap ruckman.

 

[hawk for 37]

Despite having the same inside's 50's, Hawthorn actually had more tackles inside their 50 than Geelong. So it wasn't necessarily the forward pressure which was lacking. It was more the defensive pressure when the ball was turned over. Few players were prepared to run back as hard as they did forward. In other words there was "downhill skiing". I'm not going to name names because there was over a dozen players in that boat.

Geelong are the masters of running fwd of the ball. Hence the multiple free players when the Hawks predictably turned it over.

The difference is that the Cats players can run fwd of the ball because they know that their defensive players will win the 50-50 so they can push into space to receive the ball.

Collingwood's superior defensive pressure has now bought this play unstuck in 2010 and more than likely will do this year as I don't see that Geelong have changed their game plan too much in 2011.

 

[David the Cat]

Geelong are the masters of running fwd of the ball. Hence the multiple free players when the Hawks predictably turned it over.

The difference is that the Cats players can run fwd of the ball because they know that their defensive players will win the 50-50 so they can push into space to receive the ball.

Collingwood's superior defensive pressure has now bought this play unstuck in 2010 and more than likely will do this year as I don't see that Geelong have changed their game plan too much in 2011.

Then you need to take another look. Points against is a good place to start.

 

[Lurkalot]

Then you need to take another look. Points against is a good place to start.

It's a pretty small sample size after just the 5 rounds.

Rd1 - up against saints footy (6 goals apiece)
Rd2 - an inaccurate & depleted dockers team coming off the longest road trip in the game thumbsd: AFL fixturing to a start of a team's season)
Rd3 - usual white flag from Port down at the cattery.
Rd4 - up against the smaller bodied swans in the SCG slop
Rd5 - For/Against of b/w 80-115pts. Usual fare for our teams since 2008.

Hope for a fine Friday night for your RD7 'pies clash. We'll see if your mob can contain them a little better this time around. I'd think yes - given it's only April/May and Collingwood aren't playing like a team that's peaked already.

 

[tomthabuddah]

It's a pretty small sample size after just the 5 rounds.

Rd1 - up against saints footy (6 goals apiece)
Rd2 - an inaccurate & depleted dockers team coming off the longest road trip in the game thumbsd: AFL fixturing to a start of a team's season)
Rd3 - usual white flag from Port down at the cattery.
Rd4 - up against the smaller bodied swans in the SCG slop
Rd5 - For/Against of b/w 80-115pts. Usual fare for our teams since 2008.

Hope for a fine Friday night for your RD7 'pies clash. We'll see if your mob can contain them a little better this time around. I'd think yes - given it's only April/May and Collingwood aren't playing like a team that's peaked already.

Whatever way you look at it, the Cats v Pies in round 7 should be a cracker. Will say abit about both teams. But in the end, the result will be largely irrelevant (except if one team spanks the other). IMO, if Geelong play the Pies in a final with a fit and firing Ottens, that game is 50/50 let the best team win. On the Hawks, despite the result, im sure they can lift a gear in the finals. For them they just need to make the top 4 and Buddy can outgun anyone on his day. Pies/Cat/Hawks/Freo for the top 4.

 

[David the Cat]

It's a pretty small sample size after just the 5 rounds.

Rd1 - up against saints footy (6 goals apiece)
Rd2 - an inaccurate & depleted dockers team coming off the longest road trip in the game thumbsd: AFL fixturing to a start of a team's season)
Rd3 - usual white flag from Port down at the cattery.
Rd4 - up against the smaller bodied swans in the SCG slop
Rd5 - For/Against of b/w 80-115pts. Usual fare for our teams since 2008.

Hope for a fine Friday night for your RD7 'pies clash. We'll see if your mob can contain them a little better this time around. I'd think yes - given it's only April/May and Collingwood aren't playing like a team that's peaked already.

Thanks for the positive appraisal

Hard for you Hawk supporters to see much positive in the Cats...perfectly understandable

 

[witsend]

Robert Campbell and Paul Dear aren't names that are going to send shivers down your spine, both premiership ruckman for Hawthorn. To that extent, ruckman are extremely overrated - see Mark Blake 2009.

Ruckmen are much more important in this era...IF they also pose a threat as quasi midfielders.
Ottens has been a revelation again for Geelong in 2011 so far. tbh I'd forgotten how important he is.

 

[witsend]

Geelong are the masters of running fwd of the ball. Hence the multiple free players when the Hawks predictably turned it over.

The difference is that the Cats players can run fwd of the ball because they know that their defensive players will win the 50-50 so they can push into space to receive the ball.

Collingwood's superior defensive pressure has now bought this play unstuck in 2010 and more than likely will do this year as I don't see that Geelong have changed their game plan too much in 2011.

Kick to handball ratio...massive turnaround.
Defensive mindset...subtle but important shift.
Rotations through midfield and flexibility...huge change.
Youth and pace injected to ease predictability.
Ottens and Corey almost recruits having started injury free and fit.

Still remains to be seen how we mix it with the best.
2 weeks will give some idea.

 

[SA HAWK]

Thanks for the positive appraisal

Hard for you Hawk supporters to see much positive in the Cats...perfectly understandable

The Cats have been as impressive as anyone this year imo. Both teams don't like each other so you won't get too many positive comments towards either side no matter what.

The away wins you have against Freo & Swans in particular are very valuable. Not too many sides will beat them away. I would be surprised if you don't finish top 2 after the minor round with the start you have had.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Thanks for the positive appraisal

Hard for you Hawk supporters to acknowledge much positive in the Cats...perfectly understandable

EFA

We see it. It just hurts to admit it!

I think they are playing better footy than the Pies at the moment.

 

[SA HAWK]

Whatever way you look at it, the Cats v Pies in round 7 should be a cracker. Will say abit about both teams. But in the end, the result will be largely irrelevant (except if one team spanks the other). IMO, if Geelong play the Pies in a final with a fit and firing Ottens, that game is 50/50 let the best team win. On the Hawks, despite the result, im sure they can lift a gear in the finals. For them they just need to make the top 4 and Buddy can outgun anyone on his day. Pies/Cat/Hawks/Freo for the top 4.

I still don't think it will be all that relevant.

Geelong easily accounted for Collingwood in Rd 9 last year but by the end of the season Collingwood were clearly the better team.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Hawthorn will continue to be billed as contenders as long as Lance Franklin lives and breathes.

He is the sole reason they get taken seriously, and the sole reason they continue to scare me. If Lance ever does a knee, you can write Hawthorn off once and for all for that season.

This.

Franklin is the most damaging player when up and running. As long as he's there.. Hawthorn will be contenders...

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Robert Campbell and Paul Dear aren't names that are going to send shivers down your spine, both premiership ruckman for Hawthorn. To that extent, ruckman are extremely overrated - see Mark Blake 2009.

It's not just what they achieve, it's also what they stop.

Taylor and Campbell were the #1 ranked combo in 2008, with both ranking in the top#5 for direct taps for v direct taps against. (Blake was there also).

In 2009 Blake was top-3.

Our current rucks are very poor (Renouf >25 in 08 and 09, #14 in 10) at not only winning the tap, but even stopping the opposition dominance.

With our collection of great ballwinners, a 50/50 contest is all we need to win the midfield, but since Campbell and Taylor's injury-induced early retirements we haven't had a ruck capable of negating his opponent.

 

[captain peanut]

Whatever way you look at it, the Cats v Pies in round 7 should be a cracker. Will say abit about both teams. But in the end, the result will be largely irrelevant (except if one team spanks the other). IMO, if Geelong play the Pies in a final with a fit and firing Ottens, that game is 50/50 let the best team win. On the Hawks, despite the result, im sure they can lift a gear in the finals. For them they just need to make the top 4 and Buddy can outgun anyone on his day. Pies/Cat/Hawks/Freo for the top 4.

you mean like last year's prelim?

geel have done a great job to hold on so far this year, don't get me wrong. and they may well end up being the best of the rest. but they are miles behind the pies

 

[David the Cat]

you mean like last year's prelim?

geel have done a great job to hold on so far this year, don't get me wrong. and they may well end up being the best of the rest. but they are miles behind the pies

while I really hope, like you, Malthouse and the Pie players rely on the Prelim result last year Peanut, I don't think they are that stupid.

I also hope they think Geelong are miles behind them as well....but...well, you know the rest.

 

[Pera]

Slow, one paced midfield with a bunch of left footers that have no right leg. Shit defence and a couple of forwards who get fed the ball from the midfield with handballs.

Won't get near us.

 

[tomthabuddah]

you mean like last year's prelim?

geel have done a great job to hold on so far this year, don't get me wrong. and they may well end up being the best of the rest. but they are miles behind the pies

Ottens was not fit and firing last year. Miles ahead, you are kidding. Pies are ahead no doubt, but anything can happen on the day. Geelong knows this better than most.

 

[MOONEY 21]

Shit defence

Won't get near us.

does that explain why weve conceded 57 less points than the pies this year and clearly have conceded the least amount of points as any side in the top 8?

and we have clearly played superior sides this year compared to the pies?

please elaborate on your hollow theory....

 

[Gavin Excell]

does that explain why weve conceded 57 less points than the pies this year and clearly have conceded the least amount of points as any side in the top 8?

and we have clearly played superior sides this year compared to the pies?

please elaborate on your hollow theory....

think he/she was talking about hawks

 

[MOONEY 21]

Ottens was not fit and firing last year. Miles ahead, you are kidding. Pies are ahead no doubt, but anything can happen on the day. Geelong knows this better than most.

Geelong do know better than most.....let these pies supporters think they have it sewn up in april. Their low IQ doesnt allow them to remember what happened in 08, 09.

 

[Pera]

Talking about the hawks ya clown.

Anyways, wait til we play St Kilda and then we'll compare points against stats

 

[raff23]

Given that Rd5 has just finished, it's clearly too early to make a call on Hawthorn's chances in 2011 and it would be wrong to write them off given the top-end talent they have on their list.

I think the real issue for the Hawks is a longer-term problem in that they don't have enough young talent on their list to make the club strong beyond the next 2-3 years. Their recruiting over recent years in my view has generally been poor (Cyril the obvious exception in 2007 draft, then you have to go back to Franklin/Roughy in 2004 draft). They've obviously focused on topping up their list with experienced players to try to sneak a flag (who could blame them after the success they had with Stewart Dew), but this has come at the expense of talented young players. Admittedly, I haven't seen enough of Suckling and Stratton and it's obviously too early to make a call on the younger 2010 draftees but as a group, the recruits from 2005 to 2009 drafts don't look that great.[/quote]
whitecross savage and shiels look like their coming up to a good period in their careers. Schoenmakers and lisle will both be good once they start getting regular game time in the 1s, i also think we got a steal in the last draft with puopolo, we have tended to have poor early picks but do a very good job on the later picks (puopolo, stratton)