Hawthorn's decision to resign it's older players

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

Who will the youngsters learn from now?

Also, call me when you've made the finals 30 years in a row.

Lol

You do realise that we have won three premierships in a row in an impossible era. Players such as Gunston, Breust, shiels, smith, Stratton are still in their prime. We have loads of experience. Not to mention hodge, Gibson and Burgoyne for another year or possibly two.

The Hawks understand business and are well ahead of the pack in their thinking. The guys offloaded are four time premiership players. They have done enough.

KOLOKOTRONIS

PS Hawks are always relevant. A flag in every decade since 1960.. By far the greatest sporting club in Australia by a long way actually.

 

[Coaster2012]

No one will take Hodge at 33. Freeing up cap space in 2016 doesn't really help the 2017 trade period either.

It helps their 2016 by getting 2 guns, and when they do the same thing in 2017, they will get 2 more guns. 4 elite players in 2 years, and I'm sure a team will take Hodge if its for pick 100

 

[pazza]

Lol

You do realise that we have won three premierships in a row in an impossible era. Players such as Gunston, Breust, shiels, smith, Stratton are still in their prime. We have loads of experience. Not to mention hodge, Gibson and Burgoyne for another year or possibly two.

The Hawks understand business and are well ahead of the pack in their thinking. The guys offloaded are four time premiership players. They have done enough.

KOLOKOTRONIS

PS Hawks are always relevant. A flag in every decade since 1960.. By far the greatest sporting club in Australia by a long way actually.

the problem with that..and what north has done with Harvey and co is damage the culture of the club.

 

[Tas]

No one will take Hodge at 33. Freeing up cap space in 2016 doesn't really help the 2017 trade period either.

If you are $1m short on the cap after this list management period, you bring forward contracts from 2018 into 2017 to meet the TPP, it effectively gives you $2m to spend in 2018.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

If you are $1m short on the cap after this list management period, you bring forward contracts from 2018 into 2017 to meet the TPP, it effectively gives you $2m to spend in 2018.

yeah .... no chance in hell that Hawthorn are gonna be near the cap floor. They wouldn't be dumping Mitchell and Lewis if they didn't need to make cap space for the moves they want to make this period.

(Also - the cap minimum is 95% - which will be around 500k - so at most it gives you an extra 1m next year, not 2m)

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

the problem with that..and what north has done with Harvey and co is damage the culture of the club.

Difference is we found our players a home for little in return. No issues with the culture. We are the premiership club since 1960. Hawthorn 13, essendon 6. There is a reason for this.

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Difference is we found our players a home for little in return. No issues with the culture. We are the premiership club since 1960. Hawthorn 13, essendon 6. There is a reason for this.

KOLOKOTRONIS

Don't think for a second this was about the welfare of Lewis/Mitchell (although things have worked well). Your club has managed it well, and been able to keep everyone happy, but that was not the purpose. These were not 2 players who wanted to leave of their own accord - they were both pushed out. Hawthorn's motives were about getting cap space, pure and simple... only time will tell how that works for you.

My original point still stands though - had you made the tough calls on Hodge, Gibson, Burgoyne... then you may still have both of these guys on your list. (And I have no doubt that Lewis/Mitchell will provide more on-field in 2017 and beyond than Hodge/Gibson/Burgoyne)

 

[Scotland]

Lol

You do realise that we have won three premierships in a row in an impossible era. Players such as Gunston, Breust, shiels, smith, Stratton are still in their prime. We have loads of experience. Not to mention hodge, Gibson and Burgoyne for another year or possibly two.

The Hawks understand business and are well ahead of the pack in their thinking. The guys offloaded are four time premiership players. They have done enough.

KOLOKOTRONIS

PS Hawks are always relevant. A flag in every decade since 1960.. By far the greatest sporting club in Australia by a long way actually.

Keep drinking that bathwater.

So have you made the finals 30 years in a row? By my count you're up to 7. 23 to go.

 

[Tas]

yeah .... no chance in hell that Hawthorn are gonna be near the cap floor. They wouldn't be dumping Mitchell and Lewis if they didn't need to make cap space for the moves they want to make this period.

(Also - the cap minimum is 95% - which will be around 500k - so at most it gives you an extra 1m next year, not 2m)

I don't know where Hawthorn are at with their TPP.

You can be below 95% before you bring in future contracts, the contracts are re-negotiated, players who haven't been extended yet, would do so by bringing their part of what they would get in the future into next year. For TPP purposes, the higher of the amount agreed to or the renegotiated contract counts towards the club's TPP.

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

Don't think for a second this was about the welfare of Lewis/Mitchell (although things have worked well).

Hawthorn's motives were about getting cap space, pure and simple... only time will tell how that works for you.

Yes we have created space, however we didn't do a north Melbourne. We traded them for zero, however supported the players with their futures and did not play hardball.

We did the right thing.

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Keep drinking that bathwater.

So have you made the finals 30 years in a row? By my count you're up to 7. 23 to go.

I don't think he gets your point.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Yes we have created space, however we didn't do a north Melbourne. We traded them for zero, however supported the players with their futures and did not play hardball.

We did the right thing.

KOLOKOTRONIS

But it was something you may not have had to do, if you made the tough/right decision with the other 3. You have tried to keep everyone happy, and my guess is, you will be worse off for it.

 

[Catsnlakers]

If this was going on at nearly any other club id be sure it was about to implode, but the fact its hawthorn, youd think after the dust settles between now and day 1 of pre season they will be fine culture wise with hodge, burgoyne etc still there.... Believe me i hope i am wrong though

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

If any club can make the finals 30 years in a row from this point it is hawthorn .. Easily the greatest sporting organisation in Australia. The rest are not even close.

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

But it was something you may not have had to do, if you made the tough/right decision with the other 3. You have tried to keep everyone happy, and my guess is, you will be worse off for it.

We are in the business of being relevant. Huge culture. Your club also guessed that Buckley would move the club forward...lol

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[Wooljay]

If any club can make the finals 30 years in a row from this point it is hawthorn .. Easily the greatest sporting organisation in Australia. The rest are not even close.

KOLOKOTRONIS

Signing off every post with KOLOKOTRONIS makes me think you're some kind of Hawthorn themed Transformer shouting at your laptop.

It's great.

 

[Scotland]

If you are $1m short on the cap after this list management period, you bring forward contracts from 2018 into 2017 to meet the TPP, it effectively gives you $2m to spend in 2018.

The maximum space that can be created in 2016 is $530,000.

OUT: Hill ($300k?), Sam Mitchell (pay cut to keep the team together), Lewis (under market value to keep the team together)
IN: Vickery ($500k 2016 and 2017), Tom Mitchell ($500k+?) and potentially O'Meara ($500k+)

If Hawthorn land O'Meara I don't see them coming out ahead in salary cap space. T Mitchell and Vickery would probably offset S Mitchell and Lewis.

Even without they have Gunston on a big money deal, Frawley on a big money deal, guys like Breust, Smith, Stratton etc. who were probably told 'hey we'll pay you more once Mitchell, Hodge etc. start retiring' who will be getting decent money.

 

[B4Bear]

 

[beta_condition]

The maximum space that can be created in 2016 is $530,000.

OUT: Hill ($300k?), Sam Mitchell (pay cut to keep the team together), Lewis (under market value to keep the team together)
IN: Vickery ($500k 2016 and 2017), Tom Mitchell ($500k+?) and potentially O'Meara ($500k+)

Amazing accounting skills now where did you pull these numbers from?

 

[Scotland]

Signing off every post with KOLOKOTRONIS makes me think you're some kind of Hawthorn themed Transformer shouting at your laptop.

It's great.

The AFL needs a KOLOKOTRONIS.

 

[B4Bear]

The AFL needs a KOLONOSCOPY.

Fixed

 

[didaksrightfoot]

The maximum space that can be created in 2016 is $530,000.

OUT: Hill ($300k?), Sam Mitchell (pay cut to keep the team together), Lewis (under market value to keep the team together)
IN: Vickery ($500k 2016 and 2017), Tom Mitchell ($500k+?) and potentially O'Meara ($500k+)

And add that those latter 2 are probably on significantly more money than 500k.

Mitchell was enough that Sydney couldn't come close to matching, and didn't try to do so by off-loading another player. (Eg. if he's getting a pay increase from 300k-500k, that's only 200k cap space that Sydney would've needed to make up - would be pretty easy to do... my guess is its quite a bit more than that)

And with JoM, I'm sure all 17 other clubs had also asked the question. Now coming to Hawthorn with its pedigree and off-field program is definitely a bonus, and worth a discount, but how much of a discount when there would be plenty of other clubs with a heap of cap space to throw around?

 

[didaksrightfoot]

If any club can make the finals 30 years in a row from this point it is hawthorn .. Easily the greatest sporting organisation in Australia. The rest are not even close.

KOLOKOTRONIS

Except his point is that there's one major sporting competition in this country where this streak is currently happening.

 

[Scotland]

Amazing accounting skills now where did you pull these numbers from?

Got any better ones?

You guys can't have it both ways. Either all your stars took pay cuts and unders to keep the team together or they didn't. If they did, then they aren't creating that much cap space on the way out. If Mitchell, Lewis etc. are on unders then Brad Hill is hardly likely to be on $500k.

Vickery attracted band 3 compo. His contract is two years and $500k has been published extensively. If it was much less the compo would've been band 4.

How much do you think you are paying Tom Mitchell? How much do you think you are offering Jaeger O'Meara?

 

[Badesumofu]

The maximum space that can be created in 2016 is $530,000.

OUT: Hill ($300k?), Sam Mitchell (pay cut to keep the team together), Lewis (under market value to keep the team together)
IN: Vickery ($500k 2016 and 2017), Tom Mitchell ($500k+?) and potentially O'Meara ($500k+)

A couple of things. First, although you can only directly bank 5% of TPP you can indirectly bank more than that by front-loading existing contracts which you can do freely with most players.

Second, Hawthorn absolutely did not need to trade Lewis to free up cap space. As per Lewis himself, Hawthorn were not willing to match Melbourne's offer or extend his contract past 12 months. Per Wright, the club weren't willing to deny Lewis the chance to take the deal at Melbourne. So we traded him as there was no other choice. That is a substantial chunk of cap space freed up that wasn't planned for.

Your attempt to guess the salaries of half our list is pretty fraught and I'd have thought not very worthwhile. You can draw valid inferences that we intended to be paying around 100% of TPP in 2017 and that that included Lewis' deal. Now it does not and so you could reasonably expect Hawthorn to be, at most, at 100% of TPP minus whatever Lewis was on which would have been substantial.