Help me with my top 20 Players of All time list

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Putting the Geelong hat on, Scarlett and Enright have to be in the conversation. Doull is rightly in there obviously but he and Enright are arguably the two greatest small defenders of all time and Scarlett - well many people will say that he’s the equal of silvagni and the prototype attacking fullback who could also keep is opponent scoreless
 
Was Hird a mid who went fwd or vice versa? I thought he was more a fwd injected into the midfield. But that is just me, Dons fans will correct me on this.

Judd has to be there.

Hard thing about this is value you give to positions on the field, or is this just the school yard wall and you pick the best 20 kids and go. If it is don't bother with Rucks or Defenders. Because between the great CHF/FF's + Mids they won't get a look in until the 30's possible 40's (imho)

If you can weight your own opinion Gary Ayres and Peter Knights would have to be have to be considered as defenders. Any of the WCE HB line circa 91-94. (and does B Houli get a look in these days? Hes pretty damn good over a long time and big games now)

And just for the convo piece if you were looking for genuine small forward who plays that position full time and is not midfield great sent to fatten up their career fwd (the old man saw Matthews play at CHF so his position belies the term small fwd and we all know KB was a rover) I cannot believe I am about to mention this but tip rat Milne has a CV explicitly geared to a small fwd and his stats suggest he is....nah cannot write but you know where its going. ASIO might be listening.

Hird in the EFC 1993 flag year was 20 years old playing as a tall, lead up half forward flanker. The previous year he was in and out of the league side and playing predominantly as a forward.

In 94’ if I remember he was still playing as a high forward and basically playing as a wingman.


Pretty soon in 95’ he was given stints in the guts by Sheedy and started to win contests.

Very quickly after that, Sheedy just let him go wherever he felt like during a match and played as a free roaming ruck rover /utility.
 
Albert Collier would be the greatest Centre Half Back ever. Jack Dyer who as we know was an avid Collingwood hater said that Collier was the toughest and most ruthless player to ever play the game. He also said that Collier was the most skilled player of his era. An era that included Reg Hickey, Gordon Coventry, Harry Collier, Syd Coventry, Hayden Bunton and Bob Pratt. The following is a quote from Jack Dyer.
'Albert Collier was one hell of a player and one hell of a man. The toughest footballer to walk the face of this earth. Albert was a GOD, a God amongst men, the most outstanding young player the game has ever seen. He won a brownlow as a teenager and mastered every facet of the game. A beautiful high mark, a thumping kick and a fine mover around the field. He was a thumping backman, a fierce competitor , a colossus as a team player and the first protector to stalk the field. I repected him more then any other player in history. Once he praised me, and that was the ultimate in my football career. I will cherish that for ever' Jack Dyer

Collier was a Brownlow medalist and played in an amazing 6 Premierships. He was part of the greatest team ever assembled that won four flags in a row and his teammates and coach the great Jock McHale all said he was the best player in that team. Simply the greatest Centre Half Back to have ever played the game.
 
Replace Hird or Buckley with Dusty. Judd and Diesel deserve a spot over them too

James Hird averaged 20 disposals, 6 marks and 1.4 goals per game.
He has 5 B&F's
5 x All Australian
2 Premierships
Norm Smith medal
Brownlow medal

He earns the right, as a player, to be considered one of the all time greats.


Martin may get there someday, but as it stands right now, he's not there just yet.
 
Putting the Geelong hat on, Scarlett and Enright have to be in the conversation. Doull is rightly in there obviously but he and Enright are arguably the two greatest small defenders of all time and Scarlett - well many people will say that he’s the equal of silvagni and the prototype attacking fullback who could also keep is opponent scoreless
Rance > both of them
 
Glad to see he has been mentioned already and it pains me to say this because he was an Essendon player but have read stories about Albert Thurgood for years that indicate he was clearly the best player in the sport Australia wide for a long period straddling the Bombers days in the VFA, the inception of the VFL and the turn of the 20th century.

Was involved in some controversies, but I would be pretty surprised if he was not in the best 20 players in the history of the sport at least in terms of his superiority over his peers.

Once place-kicked a ball 98 metres though it was said to be slightly wind assisted.

 
James Hird averaged 20 disposals, 6 marks and 1.4 goals per game.
He has 5 B&F's
5 x All Australian
2 Premierships
Norm Smith medal
Brownlow medal

He earns the right, as a player, to be considered one of the all time greats.


Martin may get there someday, but as it stands right now, he's not there just yet.

Nathan Buckley averages 24.6 disposals a game, 1.01 goals a game.

7 x All Australian
Norm Smith Medal
6 x B and F
Magarey Medal
Rising Star
Jack Oatey Medal
Alex Jesaulenko Medal
 

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I am not a fan of Buckley..but Pendlebury as a footballer is no where near Buckley. Not interested in the B@F,s etc just as a pure "footballer". Pendlebury is one of Collingwoods best on a possessions basis but IMHO just a gatherer around stoppages ...he and Swan had one of the best 1 2's going around that certainly padded his stats as well as Swan. Buckley ave 18 Kicks a game..Pendlebury 13. Sure Pendlebury aves more HB but Buckleys kicks and goals are more telling.
Neither of them are Top 20 of all time.
Pendlebury just a gatherer around stoppages? Stat padded? Now while I’m open to debate let’s actually make reasonable points here..
 
Franklin over Jezza for me.

Jezza Is an AFL legend but with 444 goals from 279 games could you say his record stacks up in comparison to Buddy's?

Jezza was a genuine centreman/flanker (183cm). Yeah he played full forward one year (1970) and kicked the tonne. He also played a couple of seasons on a back flank (circa 75’), was a sometime ruck rover and finished his career as a back pocket. One of the most versatile players in history and you’re judging him on goal stats? Aren’t stats just the dumbest!
 
Jezza was a genuine centreman/flanker (183cm). Yeah he played full forward one year (1970) and kicked the tonne. He also played a couple of seasons on a back flank (circa 75’), was a sometime ruck rover and finished his career as a back pocket. One of the most versatile players in history and you’re judging him on goal stats? Aren’t stats just the dumbest!

Alex Jesaulenko is one of the greatest players to ever play the game and would certainly be in my best 22 after watching 50 plus years of footy.
 
Not a bad list, i think you are undervaluing modern players like Matthew Scarlett & Corey Enright as a defender and Dean Cox as a ruck.
 
Only 10 of those listed played AFL

Whitten, Doull, Regan, Coventry x2, Matthews, Bunton, Reynolds, Stewart, Skilton, Rose, Greig, Murray, Coleman, Hart, Jesaulenko, Wade, Dyer, Farmer & Nicholls only played State League suburban football
Six of the players listed above actually came from interstate in order to play in what's was the nations pre-eminent competition before it changed its name to the AFL.
 
Pendlebury just a gatherer around stoppages? Stat padded? Now while I’m open to debate let’s actually make reasonable points here..
Pendelbury's handball is what makes him elite, Buckley could never state that. If anything Buckley got out the back of a lot of contests and was given the ball because he was such an elite kick, does that make him also a stats padder.
 
James Hird averaged 20 disposals, 6 marks and 1.4 goals per game. Dusty averages 25, 4 and 1.1
He has 5 B&F's, Dusty has 2 with another 4-5 years left
5 x All Australian Dusty has 3 with another 4-5 years to go. Will definitely catch this one
2 Premierships, Dusty has 2
Norm Smith medal, Dusty has 2
Brownlow medal Dusty has one too, and a Leigh Matthews Trophy

He earns the right, as a player, to be considered one of the all time greats.


Martin may get there someday, but as it stands right now, he's not there just yet.

Dusty is basically even on accolades already. Give him a couple more years to rack up more AA selections and B&F's and he'll catch him on that front. He's also got time for more Brownlows, Premierships and Norm Smiths.
 
Dusty is basically even on accolades already. Give him a couple more years to rack up more AA selections and B&F's and he'll catch him on that front. He's also got time for more Brownlows, Premierships and Norm Smiths.

I agree don't get me wrong. Martin is my favourite footballer and I seldom have much interest for true favourites in the modern game as they don't give me much excitement but he's different.
His persona is another reason why I like his game. He shy's away from the spotlight while teammates/other stars around the league are more than happy to do media work and promote their brand.
He just let's his football do all the talking.

I still feel like Hird has him covered for now.
Hird was such a brilliant footballer. Could play midfield, forward or back. Swung a game around on it's head (similarly to Martin).
Like you said, if Martin can maintain this level of performance for another 3-4 seasons, he probably surpasses Hird.
 

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