Heppell on 360

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Iskender Time said:
True, and he ignored his mum's warnings that it was a cowboy program using snake oil. She came across as intelligent, educated and ethical.
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He admitted that he was wrong in those respects. I actually saw someone who was taking responsibility while explaining where his mindset was at the time. I have sympathy for the way he was treated and I can understand a rookie player ignoring the training they shouldn't have. So I can have sympathy because of the understanding how they came to be drug cheats. He is one of those tainted players who likely received banned substances.

It's players like Heppell who don't have my sympathy as they really can't see how any of what happened was wrong.
 
jenny61_99 said:
Everybody has responsibility for their own safety and wellbeing though where things are within their control. Stupidity and ignorance doesn't excuse you from taking the basic necessary steps to protect yourself.
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Not sure if you have read the Victorian OH&S Act recently because while one would think that is the case it is not. Employers need to establish systems that allow for stupidity and ignorance, especially in people managing processes (See S Dank).
 
NikkiNoo said:
He admitted that he was wrong in those respects. I actually saw someone who was taking responsibility while explaining where his mindset was at the time. I have sympathy for the way he was treated and I can understand a rookie player ignoring the training they shouldn't have. So I can have sympathy because of the understanding how they came to be drug cheats. He is one of those tainted players who likely received banned substances.

It's players like Heppell who don't have my sympathy as they really can't see how any of what happened was wrong.
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And seemingly outright lying during the recent AFL 360 about having written information on what was taken. He then lamely fends off a question by
Robbo who probes for details.
 

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Sector 7G said:
Not sure if you have read the Victorian OH&S Act recently because while one would think that is the case it is not. Employers need to establish systems that allow for stupidity and ignorance, especially in people managing processes (See S Dank).
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I don't make a habit of reading Acts (unless they are part of a play). ;)

Whilst I know that protection of stupid people may well be written into Acts and other such government paraphernalia, I personally don't see how that abrogates personal responsibility. People just need to man up and accept theirs (IMO).
 
Iskender Time said:
And seemingly outright lying during the recent AFL 360 about having written information on what was taken. He then lamely fends off a question by
Robbo who probes for details.
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Considering Dyson's mental gymnastics he has displayed previously, I think it might be like the details finally given to Hal, where all it lists is 'amino acids'. So then Dyson can say he does have written info on what he took. It's just not detailed enough to be worth the printer cartridge that was used.
 
jenny61_99 said:
Everybody has responsibility for their own safety and wellbeing though where things are within their control. Stupidity and ignorance doesn't excuse you from taking the basic necessary steps to protect yourself.
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Yes, he is responsible, but (re: Hudson): what happens to Rookies who say 'no' to clubs, especially when all the senior players are saying 'yes'?

He was the youngest player on the list. Its a pretty easy argument to make that he was the most vulnerable and the most likely to follow the group.

What I would have liked to have seen is more depth on why he didnt sign the consent form, and what response that had from the club, Hird, Dank, other players, etc. Also would have been good to focus on whether he was tested by ASADA and how that whole process went.

Mind you, if they covered everything then it would have been 2 hours of 4 Corners investigation.

As it is though, the 10 minutes of AFL 360 provided no insight other than showing us a player who still thinks nothing bad actually happened and that he is a complete victim (but given nothing bad happened I do wonder how he is a victim of the EFC). He even managed to say that the rules are rules and he had no issue with that.

Just baffling what is going on in his head. I assume he has just been overwhelmed with garbage from EFC, the AFL, the AFLPA, lawyers, other players, and all his friends and family that he probably has no idea what is actually happening.
 
NikkiNoo said:
He admitted that he was wrong in those respects. I actually saw someone who was taking responsibility while explaining where his mindset was at the time. I have sympathy for the way he was treated and I can understand a rookie player ignoring the training they shouldn't have. So I can have sympathy because of the understanding how they came to be drug cheats. He is one of those tainted players who likely received banned substances.

It's players like Heppell who don't have my sympathy as they really can't see how any of what happened was wrong.
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Yeah, I sort of saw it like this too. Mostly, though, I saw it as someone who was still making excuses for themselves (I was young, naive, first year player, just doing what everyone else was doing, wanted to fit in... yadda yadda). Look, don't get me wrong, he out of all them deserves some level of sympathy. All I'm saying is I just want to see them accept responsibility for their part in this. That still hasn't come from ANY of them - staff OR players.
 
Doss said:
For what it's worth, I was told by one of the current 12 in January 2014 that they'd been told by 'ASADA investigators' that "they were safe".

Obviously goalposts changed at some point.
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Was that around the time McDevitt was suggesting a deal was on the table ?

Fess up and take a few games ?
 
Demonic Ascent said:
Comfortable he was not given any banned substances. The club can't say what he was given.

Did nothing wrong, amazed to be found guilty. Feels let down by the club and key individuals within.

Does anyone else see the contradictions in these statements?
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That's exactly what i was thinking, i watched the Four Corners report and Hunter has not been given any details as to what he was given, he is UN-comfortable about his future and possible side affects. Heppell waffles on in contradictory terms all over the place. The Dank program is the biggest disgrace in Australian sporting history and my empathy for the players is waning rapidly here...
 
...on the sidelines for the entirety of the 2016 season and if he does attend any games this year — as he says he intends to — he’ll likely hear more calls of “drug cheat” from fans.
Dyson Heppell says he feels ‘let down’ by certain people at Essendon.
“I have been called a drug cheat,” the Bomber said on AFL 360.
“At the start it did worry me and it was hard to swallow. But I feel a lot of those people aren’t really educated on the situation. I know what we did, I know who I am and I know my morals. And that goes against everything I believe in.”
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the highlighted is the most annoying bit

no, no dyson

no ones got any idea bar you, jobe, albert, dank
 
jenny61_99 said:
I don't make a habit of reading Acts (unless they are part of a play). ;)

Whilst I know that protection of stupid people may well be written into Acts and other such government paraphernalia, I personally don't see how that abrogates personal responsibility. People just need to man up and accept theirs (IMO).
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So if at work I send an 18yr old apprentice up on a roof without a handrail, tell him it is all fine and he falls and he becomes a paraplegic he needs to take responsibility as he should know the OH&S regs. I don't think so. That's why managers get paid the big bucks ( even if it is often less than the people they manage on hourly rate)
 

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Sector 7G said:
So if at work I send an 18yr old apprentice up on a roof without a handrail, tell him it is all fine and he falls and he becomes a paraplegic he needs to take responsibility as he should know the OH&S regs. I don't think so. That's why managers get paid the big bucks ( even if it is often less than the people they manage on hourly rate)
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I have a bunch of staff and students all required to do significant induction courses before they are allowed access to labs. They have to undertake a risk analysis before every experiment. They are all drilled on the importance of PPE. We've had the odd accident over the years... one researcher lucky not to lose an eye or have major facial burns because she decided not to wear elements of her PPE (despite knowing better). Managers get paid big bucks to ensure their staff are adequately trained and well supervised when undertaking risky tasks. Employees also have a responsibility to make sure they follow rules. These employees (in this case, the athletes) chose not to follow guidelines set down for them by ASADA and the AFL. In so-doing, they have to accept the consequences. While their manager is definitely responsible, so too are they.
 
HairyO said:
Yes, he is responsible, but (re: Hudson): what happens to Rookies who say 'no' to clubs, especially when all the senior players are saying 'yes'?

He was the youngest player on the list. Its a pretty easy argument to make that he was the most vulnerable and the most likely to follow the group.

What I would have liked to have seen is more depth on why he didnt sign the consent form, and what response that had from the club, Hird, Dank, other players, etc. Also would have been good to focus on whether he was tested by ASADA and how that whole process went.

Mind you, if they covered everything then it would have been 2 hours of 4 Corners investigation.

As it is though, the 10 minutes of AFL 360 provided no insight other than showing us a player who still thinks nothing bad actually happened and that he is a complete victim (but given nothing bad happened I do wonder how he is a victim of the EFC). He even managed to say that the rules are rules and he had no issue with that.

Just baffling what is going on in his head. I assume he has just been overwhelmed with garbage from EFC, the AFL, the AFLPA, lawyers, other players, and all his friends and family that he probably has no idea what is actually happening.
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or, he joined the ranks of those who made a poor decision to go on public record knowing he couldn't speak about everything.
I don't really get what the point of Hepp being on last night was other than to provide some insight into how the group are feeling.
Questions about the details of the case were a waste of time. He was never going to answer them or give responses around his state of mind any different to what he did.

The media should have left this alone in 2013, and they should be leaving it alone now.
If they don't, they are the last that can b***h about the conduct of all parties throughout the saga.
Once the legal avenues are done and dusted, then speak to people.
 
citizen-erased said:
or, he joined the ranks of those who made a poor decision to go on public record knowing he couldn't speak about everything.
I don't really get what the point of Hepp being on last night was other than to provide some insight into how the group are feeling.
Questions about the details of the case were a waste of time. He was never going to answer them or give responses around his state of mind any different to what he did.

The media should have left this alone in 2013, and they should be leaving it alone now.
If they don't, they are the last that can b***h about the conduct of all parties throughout the saga.
Once the legal avenues are done and dusted, then speak to people.
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Is there anything in his appeal which is stopping him from showing his ASADA declaration form? Im pretty sure that all players would get to keep a copy, and I assume he kept his copy.

Is there any part of his appeal which would stop him from confirming what contact he has had with Hal Hunter? Or whether he also has asked Essendon for access to all his records? I assume if Essendon found a bunch of stuff for Hal, they probably also found stuff for other players?
 
HairyO said:
Is there anything in his appeal which is stopping him from showing his ASADA declaration form? Im pretty sure that all players would get to keep a copy, and I assume he kept his copy.

Is there any part of his appeal which would stop him from confirming what contact he has had with Hal Hunter? Or whether he also has asked Essendon for access to all his records? I assume if Essendon found a bunch of stuff for Hal, they probably also found stuff for other players?
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honestly have no idea how the legal mechanics of it work.
so can't answer that.
I assume he could have whatever contact he likes with Hunter given he is no longer an employee of the sport.

I'd be surprised if any player made public any legal document pertaining to the appeal (i.e. the dec forms) prior to the hearing and risk antagonising the court.
 
The take home point is that players are responsible for their own actions, behaviours and choices. Whatever goes into their bodies, they need to research (everything). Any decision made by others - that could affect them - they need to be all over. Although the players are 100% at fault - and guilty - I don't believe they intentionally broken the rules. I think they were a bit naive, and trusting. Players are expected to seamlessly fit into structures and think as a collective, so I am not surprised that very few questioned the program in it's early stages. I do have a big problem with Heppell being on 360 though, because IMO it rewards cheats for cheating. If the AFL are to be taken seriously, and even fox footy are to be taken seriously, they will set precedents.
 
jenny61_99 said:
I have a bunch of staff and students all required to do significant induction courses before they are allowed access to labs. They have to undertake a risk analysis before every experiment. They are all drilled on the importance of PPE. We've had the odd accident over the years... one researcher lucky not to lose an eye or have major facial burns because she decided not to wear elements of her PPE (despite knowing better). Managers get paid big bucks to ensure their staff are adequately trained and well supervised when undertaking risky tasks. Employees also have a responsibility to make sure they follow rules. These employees (in this case, the athletes) chose not to follow guidelines set down for them by ASADA and the AFL. In so-doing, they have to accept the consequences. While their manager is definitely responsible, so too are they.
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Difference is EFC didn't have any procedures/JSA's for what happened at Hyper Med for Hal to follow. Management failed to implement previously agreed protocols. Players were told not to talk to Dr Reid. I find it hard to be too critical from an OH&S perspective of the youngest squad member with shaky tenure.
 
Demonic Ascent said:
That is the part that makes it seem dodgy (circumventing the Doc) but they may have thought when the club gave the sign off guys like Hird, Dank et al had gone through Reid?
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It's just not realistic to think that Dank's injections wouldn't have come up in the players' consultations with Doc Reid. Remember the injections were "like concrete going into your butt" and they also had suffered an unprecedented number of soft-tissues injuries that season. Additionally, Dank wasn't just doing this for a few weeks, he was there for 8-9 months after the consents were signed. It's just not plausible that in all that time Dank's injections just never happened to come up.

So, the players must have been instructed to conceal the programme from Reid - why?
 
citizen-erased said:
I don't really get what the point of Hepp being on last night was other than to provide some insight into how the group are feeling.
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It's not rocket surgery. He's the new vitamins McVeigh, but with worse hair. And probably not as smart, which is a sad failure to reach a fairly low bar.

He wasn't there to tell us how the group was feeling. Spare me. He was there to blow the clouds of bullshit back into place by saying stuff which wasn't consistent with the 4 Corners message of "EFC screwed me over, and are still screwing me over."
 
citizen-erased said:
honestly have no idea how the legal mechanics of it work.
so can't answer that.
I assume he could have whatever contact he likes with Hunter given he is no longer an employee of the sport.

I'd be surprised if any player made public any legal document pertaining to the appeal (i.e. the dec forms) prior to the hearing and risk antagonising the court.
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I'd be surprised too because the dec forms would show Doise is full of shit.
 
Milanista28 said:
Heppell is such an impressive young man, Say what you want but he's been dealt a pretty rough hand these last 4 years and he's grown in stature, Fantastic to see him last night can't wait to watch him all season.
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Not often I agree with you but he's been good. Stayed positive and light hearted about things. He's a bit smarter than he sounds, interestingly the Watsons sound reasonably clever but they aren't so......
 

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