Hird hosted meeting, planned program with Dank? - 7:30 on ABC 30 July (video in OP)

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Jobe Watson said:
Are we still going on about AOD? Yawn, old news - players were cleared on it yonks ago.

What about all the other drugs we supposedly used? Report's coming out in a week or two; why haven't the media focused intensely on the other substances yet?
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The one that the Bombers were advised was not legal? Yeah I'd like to hear more about these other substances too. Might have to wait for the report.
 
PieBeast said:
Are you saying Swan and Heater are clean? ;)
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I don't have specific information on individuals, I'm talking in general terms and expressing an opinion only based on rationale.

I read a professor from the us talk about the Olympics, [user]blackcat[/user] has quoted him before. His research suggests that only a small minority are clean. An article on the abc site this week sighted research that if a player used continuously and was tested weekly there's only a 2.3% chance of getting caught.

Why would the afl be any different? What makes the afl an island of purity? Given the money, adulation and next to zero chance of getting caught.

The system incentivises doping.
 
whoe knew obesity could get the chix?

what is the stuff Toadfish is on for those Lite n Easy commercials where he says he can do swimming now?

I think Warnie is on more than his mom's fluid tablet. I swear he chugged half a dozen roofies for Ascott. I think he had a day at the races like Ronnie Burns and John Platten

ASADA investigators have seized documents found inside the Essendon Football Club's headquarters that claim the anti-obesity drug at the centre of the doping inquiry was being used by bodybuilders as a "safe alternative" to banned human growth hormones.
The documents were given to Essendon in 2012, written by the Melbourne firm that developed the drug and asserted that if the product was "legal" its use would be more widespread.
"If AOD [anti-obesity drug AOD9604] was legal/more easily obtainable, users advise they would use AOD more often," the documents state, while also claiming the drug had a following among bodybuilders with "years of experience injecting anabolic steroids".


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dons-told-drug-was-not-legal-20130730-2qxqq.html#ixzz2aXj8lhK3
 
Watching that just increases the joy in Friday nights win x 1000 - so much hatred - I can't wipe the grin off my face

What amazes me is that we have a team down the highway that has won three premierships in 5 years with players that are built like brick dunnies and a win/loss ratio that few teams will ever get close to and what does hird do, he chooses to focus on a team that since 2009 has a win/loss ratio of 59w/36l including finals and injury lists that no team would wish for - how much must he hate hawthorn and what an absolute tosser it makes him.

I have no doubt that every club pushes the boundaries in pursuit of excellence but the bombers are the ones who crossed it and I welcome an investigation of the club I support and if anything untoward should turn up then I would expect clarkson and anyone else involved sacked. If I recall, every club opened its doors and submitted the required documentation without a problem.

This is a game that is unique to Australia and to see it destroyed by egomaniacs is not on - the line in the sand is right here, right now and I hope the afl send the right message and a strong message and impose heavy sanctions.
 
Chameleon75 said:
I don't have specific information on individuals, I'm talking in general terms and expressing an opinion only based on rationale.

I read a professor from the us talk about the Olympics, [user]blackcat[/user] has quoted him before. His research suggests that only a small minority are clean. An article on the abc site this week sighted research that if a player used continuously and was tested weekly there's only a 2.3% chance of getting caught.

Why would the afl be any different? What makes the afl an island of purity? Given the money, adulation and next to zero chance of getting caught.

The system incentivises doping.
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It was a joke about those players' perceived weight issues.
 
Chameleon75 said:
I don't have specific information on individuals, I'm talking in general terms and expressing an opinion only based on rationale.

I read a professor from the us talk about the Olympics, [user]blackcat[/user] has quoted him before. His research suggests that only a small minority are clean. An article on the abc site this week sighted research that if a player used continuously and was tested weekly there's only a 2.3% chance of getting caught.

Why would the afl be any different? What makes the afl an island of purity? Given the money, adulation and next to zero chance of getting caught.

The system incentivises doping.
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Intredasting.

But I was simply extracting the urine based on their supposed battles with the bulge.
 
Chameleon75 said:
Going from memory as of 2011 (not sure now) the afl didn't test for hgh or epo. Around 1000 piss tests were done on game day only and only 30 players were targeted outside of game day. The target testing only consited of two blood tests the rest piss tests. The experts say that you need around a dozen blood tests a year for the first two years to develop a blood passport. Does that sound like a thorough system?
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Yeah I remember the AFL coming out and announcing that they were now testing for this. Thought it was odd that you would bother announcing it. I took this as a "please stop doing it as we now test for it" warning to the players.
 

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hgh
The Dodger said:
Yeah I remember the AFL coming out and announcing that they were now testing for this. Thought it was odd that you would bother announcing it. I took this as a "please stop doing it as we now test for it" warning to the players.
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hgh is a blood test. they could just test Tim Forsyth the highjumper instead.

may be apocryphal, but TH said* that he would get tested regularly because the AA officials knew he would piss clean, and it would get their testing numbers up.

now, i dont know it this thing grew legs in chinese whispers, because Forsyth, if he says this, unless he is stupid, but it is an overt nod and wink (hey dave culbert you fricken muppet hear that) that the sport is rife with injecting rooms. sort of half paints himself in a good light, and the sport in the shit. hey RussellEbertHandball did you hear this anecdote? apocryphal? i hate david culbert too. i bet he did was carl lewish was doing.
 
blackcat said:
hgh

hgh is a blood test. they could just test Tim Forsyth the highjumper instead.

may be apocryphal, but TH said* that he would get tested regularly because the AA officials knew he would piss clean, and it would get their testing numbers up.

now, i dont know it this thing grew legs in chinese whispers, because Forsyth, if he says this, unless he is stupid, but it is an overt nod and wink (hey dave culbert you fricken muppet hear that) that the sport is rife with injecting rooms. sort of half paints himself in a good light, and the sport in the shit. hey RussellEbertHandball did you hear this anecdote? apocryphal? i hate david culbert too. i bet he did was carl lewish was doing.
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Yeah I have read that Forsyth made the comment. I reckon it was as a result of athletics in Oz having a few positives in the late 1980's early 1990's, and swimming the other big Olympic sport had none. Geez even back then Australian Olympic cycling had almost no positives. The AIS was on its get world class campaign and with Sydney winning hosting rights in late 1993, and hundreds of millions thrown at the Olympic sports campaign for Sydney, then Forsyth as an 18 almost 19 year old won Bronze in the high jump i Barcelona mid 1992 and was known to be clean was a good target for keeping the positives low in athletics.
 
Chameleon75 said:
Going from memory as of 2011 (not sure now) the afl didn't test for hgh or epo. Around 1000 piss tests were done on game day only and only 30 players were targeted outside of game day. The target testing only consited of two blood tests the rest piss tests. The experts say that you need around a dozen blood tests a year for the first two years to develop a blood passport. Does that sound like a thorough system?
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The AFL didn't even give that much info in their annual report. A cut and paste of a previous post on the Port board drug thread that has been going on there since September last year. Its about the 2011 AFL annual report. They haven't released the 2012 to the public like they usually do in March ....


Had a discussion with The Wookie on the AFL Commission board back in February. Rucci's Head in the sand for so many years article on Friday about Adrian Anderson once every year going on about how the AFL was clean of PED's and being presented as immaculately clean, made me think of stuff I wrote in that thread in mid February.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/the-afl-asada-acc-drugs-in-sport-investigaton.989172/page-2

Channel 7 Drugs in Sport Special from The Wookie's You Tube channel



The 2 best bits for me, Dave Culbert between 34:20 - line in the sand for all sports wasn't last Thursday, athletics was in 1988, cycling in 90's,his interview with Marion Jones and her saying she didn't cheat, roomed with Dean Capobianco and not knowing he was a cheat and why wont AFL talk to Justin Charles - and Andy D responding up to 37:00 and then Richard Ings backs up AFL, but Peter Larkin reminds him that he said only 5% of PED users get caught, so 95% get away with it, which goes up to 38:30.

And Culbert again at 1:00:10 comparing AFL which has 2 lines in the annual report, to the IAAF who list every person tested, what tested for, how often - wants more transparency but Demetriou just fobs him off, not interested in providing the info and neither does the AFLPA as per Matt Finnis's comment up to 1:02:00.

------

Demetriou fobbed him off because just like the AFL use ASADA so do athletics and cycling use the WADA affiliates when their Diamond League and Grand Prix and Pro Tours respectively.

The 2011 AFL annual report Page 49, gives ¼ of a page to PEDS and ½ a page to illicit drugs. One stat for the PED’s and plenty for the illicit stats. This is the 2 line stat Culbert talks about.

“ASADA reported to the AFL it conducted almost 1,000 tests for the 12 month period from November 1 2009, to October 31 2010, with no positive test results.”

That’s it, that is all they say about PEDs stats. We then get some generic comments.

Yes they tell us they introduced some initiatives and tested for EPO and CERA for the first time in this period as well as HGH. There was a test for EPO – the urine one approved for the Sydney Olympics and then between 2001 and 2004 so many Olympic sports and the IOC approved the blood test.

Between the early 1980’s when HGH came on the market and February 2010 there was never a HGH positive test. Since then there has been approx a dozen positive postives to HGH. So the 5% success rate is about 0.00001% for HGH use.

Take those near 1,000 tests. We have no idea what % were blood and what % were urine tests. What % were in competition and what % were for out of competition.

The ¼ page report says “out of competition testing also improved and the AFL expanded its blood profiling program….with a number of players repeated tested.”

So if all tests were in competition – 2010 season had 176 games and 9 finals suggests a mix say of 3 home team and 2 away players are tested. If you allow for a 2 to 1 split between in and out of comp that means 2 home players and 1 away player tested after each game and about 400 out of comp tests or 1 test for every 2 players in the league.

An average of about 1.4 tests/player, for the approx. 720 players in the AFL in 2010.

They should produce names and stats just like tennis has done. ( as well as other international sports)

In the Illicit Drug policy area there is a table of the 2010 test 1,654 with 5 years previous stats, with 1st, 2nd and 3rd strikes as well as info on which substances were caught.

Do the illicit drugs tests look for PED’s??? If so why don’t the AFL talk about the results from these 1,654 and relate them to PED stats?? Or are they ignored by the AFL and ASADA??

The ITA publish names and times tested. Their 2009 + 2010 + 2011 stats show only about 10% of tests are blood tests. That’s why guys like Murray and Federer are calling for more blood tests.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/22/us-tennis-open-doping-idUSBRE90L08F20130122
http://tensport.com.au/news/newsarticles/Tennis-Federer-joins-Murray-in-call-for-more-blood-testing.htm

But the AFL might be scared of publishing their stats because they might get caught out just like tennis did a couple of years ago.

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/list.html


In 2010, the ITF posted this document.

The following players were listed with an Out-of-Competition test for which there was a zero in each testing column (urine, blood, EPO):

(it then names 49 players including some big names)

When asked about the triple zero entries the ITF responded:

The results you are referring to were missions that resulted, for whatever reason, in no sample being collected.

The ITF then replaced the document above, with this one. The triple zero entries are removed. In place of the missing tests the document states that: "a further 49 out-of-competition missions were conducted where where no sample was collected. These included missions that were conducted outside the player's nominated 60 minute time-slot, or where the athlete was unavailable."

The question is: Why were the atheletes unavailable (or whatever other reason no sample was collected)? Why did the ITF pull the original document and then replace it with a version where the no sample missions are deleted? How many times did this happen in 2008 and 2010? Why has the ITF stopped publishing testing statistics that indicate when a specific player was tested?

The media coverage on this? Still waiting. There are a lot of top players on this list, why has the media shown no interest?
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http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/list.html

The two links that show heaps of stats about tennis drug testing for 2009+2010+2011
http://www.scribd.com/rikyusen

the ITA adjusted 73 page document
http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_47414_original.PDF
 
In its 1997 annual report the AFL gave lots of info about their drug testing and told us how many in competition and out of competition they did each year since 1990 when they introduced drug testing. 84 in 1990 --> 288 in 1997. See page 45 at the 1997 annaul report.

See link to AFL annual reports 1993 to 2009 at
https://secure.ausport.gov.au/clearinghouse/Library/archive/digital_archive/australian_football

2011 annual report at following link page 49 for drug testing info
http://mm.afl.com.au/portals/0/2012/afl_annual_report_2011.pdf

/49
AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE//2011 ANNUAL REPORT

AFL Anti-Doping Code

The AFL’s most recent 12-month period of testing by the
Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) for
performance-enhancing drugs under the AFL’s Anti-Doping Code
recorded no positive test results.

ASADA reported to the AFL it conducted almost 1000 tests for
the 12-month period from November 1, 2009, to October 31, 2010,
with no positive test results.

The testing period saw the introduction of a number
of initiatives designed to further deter any athlete
considering doping, as the AFL and ASADA annually determine
what is current best practice in combating the use of
performance-enhancing substances.

Testing for EPO and CERA was introduced, as well as testing
for human growth hormone (HGH), and an information-sharing
arrangement between the AFL and ASADA officially started.
Testing of players on overseas training camps was also instigated
as another measure to enhance the testing program.
Out-of-competition testing also improved, and the AFL
expanded its blood-profiling program in this 12-month period,
with a number of players repeat tested.

The AFL was the first Australian sport to pay for its own HGH,
EPO and CERA testing program, after working with ASADA to
examine all possible testing options. The AFL remains proud that
ASADA describes the AFL testing program as ‘gold standard’.

Illicit Drug Policy

The most recent results for the competition’s Illicit Drug Policy
showed the rate of failed tests has reduced tenfold since the
policy’s introduction in 2005....................
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
Illicit Drug Policy

The most recent results for the competition’s Illicit Drug Policy
showed the rate of failed tests has reduced tenfold since the
policy’s introduction in 2005....................
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amazing how the failed tests can reduce when you can self report...coincidence?...or solid policy?
 
DawOfPromotion said:
You do understand where the term comes from?

It refers to secret and illegal operations carried out by governments/military.

Effectively - breaking the law with full knowledge you are doing so in order to achieve an outcome.
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It's also a very good game, whose good name is now sullied by Jimmy....
 
Chameleon75 said:
You clearly haven't been following my position.

For the record, do I think Collingwood is on gear? Yes. Do I think everyone is? Absolutely.

If you look at every sport that's had a drug scandal, the same preconditions exist.

1. Huge monetary incentives.
2. Adulation from the public.
3. Scant chance of getting caught.

Those conditions exist in the afl.

You cannot complete if others are on the gear. Testing is next to useless, do you think that clubs and individuals will sit back and watch their competition dominate with little chance of getting caught, that's unlikely.

So I'm not nervous at all, I'm not one that worships at the alter of their team. What I would like to see is vlad, hird, dank, Robinson and everyone else in the know go nuclear and expose the charade so we can all see how sausages are made.

Maybe then we can have a serious discussion about peds rather than the usual, "everyone's using except for my team" garbage.

Oh except for geelong, they just dominated the competition by superior genetics of course.
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Great post :thumbsu:

It's time for the AFL to properly investigate all clubs use of supplements etc and to develop a monitoring and reporting system to ensure PEDs are stamped out of our game. Given that its likely essendon are going to be hit with a substantial fine it could be used to fund such an investigation and setup a framework for a monitoring system
 
CouchPotato said:
What amazes me is that we have a team down the highway that has won three premierships in 5 years with players that are built like brick dunnies and a win/loss ratio that few teams will ever get close to and what does hird do, he chooses to focus on a team that since 2009 has a win/loss ratio of 59w/36l including finals and injury lists that no team would wish for - how much must he hate hawthorn and what an absolute tosser it makes him.
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Three clubs were referred to - hawthorn, collingwood and west coast who all finished top 4 in 2011

The other top 4 club not mentioned just happened to be coached up until the end of 2010 by Hirds senior assistant. Probably just a coincidence though
 

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Hird hosted meeting, planned program with Dank? - 7:30 on ABC 30 July (video in OP)

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