Hird to have his say

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t_ontour said:
you really think that was the case! The AFL were the ones that demanded he be immediately sacked and I can assure you they were also the ones paying the million dollars for it to go away.

But now that the case is done... just wait as there is no benefit in silence anymore and characters like Robinson are better off speaking and incriminating themselves...

There are things happening behind the scenes with respect to Robinson...
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Seems you also are calling James Albert a liar.
He says the EFC were the ones that did.
 
Peter Sidorkiewicz said:
I also find it staggering that Dr Reid just sat on the sidelines and watched it happen. I really can't believe he got off scott free.
How can you have injections for the players whereby the doctor is not involved? If he was that against it and his advice was completely ignored, he should of resigned out of professional ethics. It just doesn't add up about Dr Reid involvement in this situation.
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Reid was a linament sniffer of the highest order. It was his life.

He also hero worshipped Hird. As was the Essendon way.

He was conflicted between his priorities.

At crucial times, he seems to have put linament sniffing ahead of professionalism. To his extreme detriment.

By the time it came to give CAS evidence, he seems to have veered back towards professionalism........

......yet he still has not resigned.....still can't get that linament out of his nostrils.

Amazing.
 

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pazza said:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...uate-supervision/story-fni5f22o-1226740824947

and

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ement-use-by-12-afl-clubs-20131016-2vm11.html

and

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne...ious-accountability-over-supplement-programs/

and

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-18/holmes-afl-spring-clean/5031326

The AFL itself in a survey of clubs.

FACT.
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LOL
They were legal supplements, so in no way 'similar' to the Essendon program as you stated.

FACT - many clubs were running supplement programs using legit stuff and still do, including Essendon, my club and probably every club
FACT - Essendon's program was found to be using banned substances, the other clubs' programs weren't
 
pazza said:
The thing is this article today is only part 1.

There's at least a 2nd part of the article. To quote from the article itseelf, 2013 ownards is the last line.

There are some interesting points.

The management structure once and for all proves the lie about the "texts". It does surely show that if it was to work correctly Hird and the coaching staff were at arms length from Robinson and Dank, under Hamilton.

The continual insistence that everything was to be legal and complaint.

The fact that 12 other clubs had similar programs in place.
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Other clubs had supplement programs, not doping programs. Supplements are fine and fully legal. Doping is not. There was a major line crossed according to the finding in CAS.

You logic is a bit like saying after getting done for drink driving, oh, everyone else has orange juice when they drive, its unfair.
 
mxett said:
in the article you quoted it described their disagreement about it. It never refers to who was in charge of Robinson at the time
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To be precise the argument from Hird's view was about reviewing the position. Not Robinson, personally. And Bomber won the stoush by having Robinson's position under him.

Hird authorised the protocols under which Robinson operated (even if Robinson was the ghost author), Robinson's own accounts is that he lost any battle he had with Hird, there is no evidence of Dank having anything to do with Hamilton but only Hird, and the CAS findings were that Robinson answered to Hamilton and Hird. The players went to Hird to voice their concerns. Not Hamilton. All this points to one person who had real control over the drug operations at Essendon at that time.
 
bigblackboz said:
Other clubs had supplement programs, not doping programs. Supplements are fine and fully legal. Doping is not. There was a major line crossed according to the finding in CAS.

You logic is a bit like saying after getting done for drink driving, oh, everyone else has orange juice when they drive, its unfair.
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No what it means is that the AFL now has no other option left open to it but to find out the extent of every supplements program in 2012/13 and if there are anomalies, they need to be investigated. That's a fair and reasonable course of action to take..surely?
 
RegHickeyStand said:
To be precise the argument from Hird's view was about reviewing the position. Not Robinson, personally. And Bomber won the stoush by having Robinson's position under him.

Hird authorised the protocols under which Robinson operated (even if Robinson was the ghost author), Robinson's own accounts is that he lost any battle he had with Hird, there is no evidence of Dank having anything to do with Hamilton but only Hird, and the CAS findings were that Robinson answered to Hamilton and Hird. The players went to Hird to voice their concerns. Not Hamilton. All this points to one person who had real control over the drug operations at Essendon at that time.
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Hird was arguing he wanted Robinson fired. There is no indication he was in charge of Robinson. Hird did not write the protocol, it was something agree to by all stakeholders
 
LoungeLizard said:
Seems you also are calling James Albert a liar.
He says the EFC were the ones that did.
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Rest assured.... Essendon were the ones that actually sacked Robinson... or at least stood him down with full pay. 100% Fact that the order came from GILL during a meeting at AFL House. Evans called Danny from AFL House during that meeting...
 

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Well it seems that some Essendon fans are still firmly standing by Hird. Can't say they're not persistent
 
Stumpy Pete said:
Hird’s claims don’t wash with me.

He has been some adamant, so unequivocal about the status of what the players took that to now claim that he was essentially a casual observer to the whole thing means he is either lying now or he was lying earlier (my definition of lying includes making definitive statements that you simply cannot be confident of).

However the other aspect of all this makes me disbelieving of Hird’s story is that lack of reporting on the DCF’s. This lack of reporting, in my mind, clearly shows that the players were in on the plan to keep the supplements program secret. It is inconceivable to me that the players would be party to such a secretive arrangement without the express support of Hird (and Bomber Thompson to be fair). Further the statement from Mark McVeigh (para 160 of the arbitrage award), that if he knew then what he knows now he would have gone straight to Hird’s office or done something else, indicates that Hird had some sort of involvement and authority over the program.

Regards

S. Pete
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Yeah, this. I don't believe for a second that Dank comes to the club as a new face and begins an unprecedented regime of injections to over 30 players, then tells them to keep it a secret from the club doctor and ASADA when they come aknocking, and they all go "yeah, no worries, Danksy".

Only someone who already has a strong bond with the players, respected, trusted, could pull that off; and I'm not talking about Dean Robinson. Bomber Thompson... maybe, but who was at the presentation with Dank and Robinson when the consent forms were signed?
 
pazza said:
Everyone needs to read the articles with an open mind and put themselves in Hird's shoes here. Not defending him, but, his points make a lot of sense.
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Funny-Facepalm-GIF.gif
 
t_ontour said:
DEAN ROBINSON.... when are people and the Media actually going to question the role of this guy. To date everyone has been happy to throw it at Hird, but now its over, I suggest you look much harder into the character of this bloke, the role he played and the role as head of department that he held.

These is a reason why the AFL and ASADA were happy to put more weight on his evidence than that of Hird! But thats all irrelevant now that the bans have been handed down and Dean Robinson is no longer protected.

Dean Robinson will be in the gun now....
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Dream on.

EFC "dismissed" him and paid him over $1million to keep quiet.

EFC won't dare touch him - just like Dank.

They know where the skeletons are buried!!!
 
CFC2010 said:
A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, or other effects of perception.

OR refer below

images
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"Kierkegaard said of belief that it becomes stronger the more impossible and threatened it is."

"And Dinsdale's there in the conversation pit with Doug and Charles Paisley, the baby crusher, and a couple of film producers and a man they called 'Kierkegaard', who just sat there biting the heads of whippets and Dinsdale sayd 'I hear you've been a naughty boy Clement' and he splits me nostrils open and saws me leg off and pulls me liver out, and I said my name's not Clement and then he loses his temper and nails my head to the floor."
 
mxett said:
Robinson sent it out
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Robinson?

Oh yes. Here is a brief history of it. Definitely Robinson and Dank were directly under Hird. Hamilton's name is nowhere to be seen:

57. On 15 January 2012, Robinson developed a new supplementation protocol (the Protocol), which was sent by email to Hird, Dank and Reid. The email relevantly provided:
Steve [Dank] once you have identified a supplement we would benefit from that is not contravening any laws of sport based on the WADA code, you have agreed to the following points with Dr Bruce Reid.
• Provide [Reid] with a summary of the literature which will include:
1. Both the scientific name and its common name.
2. All clinical findings both positive and negative.
3. State to the best of your knowledge the known or potential side effects both short and long-term.
4. Complete list of references for his perusal should be need an[y] further information.
5. Statement from you that this supplement is not contravening any WADA guidelines.
• Once [Reid] has received the above information he will have sufficient time to make a recommendation as to its suitability for the use with our players. If Dr Reid requires further information this will be provided to him so he can be ME_107794419_1 (W2007)
13
completely comfortable that in the event of him recommending the supplement, in the best of his knowledge it does no harm. He will present his recommendation back to [Hird], [Robinson] and to … Dank.
• If the supplement is recommended then a letter of informed consent will be produced and given to the player to sign prior to the first administration of the supplement, the player will have a right of refusal and also be able to refuse the supplement at any point in the future. As part of this informed consent the player will also be made aware that it is our competitive advantage and in being so that they are not permitted to speak about our supplement program outside of [Reid], [Hird], [Robinson] and … Dank.
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https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...nH-R2syCKHrLmGI0w&sig2=KlhqEToI72OQpJw4ikTfSA
 
pazza said:
Everyone needs to read the articles with an open mind and put themselves in Hird's shoes here. Not defending him, but, his points make a lot of sense.
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Like his omission of his history with "lineball" supplements and his many year relationship with Shane Charters?
His avoidance of taking any responsibility despite being in constant contact with Dank (as per SMS contents released to the media)?
No mention of the supplements he was taking as quasi-participant in the injections regime?

I hear PR-101 and prepared statements, very little else.
 
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