MRP / Trib. Holeman and Plowman both Given 2 Weeks WTF

[Hoops]

Players dont play the game at 30 or 60 frames a second. Video grab frame clearly shows that shoulders of each player hit at the same time Plowman's head stays upright and that made of glass Hawforn blokes head tilts towards Plowman - if anything the hawforn player should be on report for headbutting Plowman.

No commentary on the sniping elbow to Walsh's head though I see? Another example of a Hawforn prediliction to hit from behind - what a bunch of crabs.

Holman tackle being reported just as farcical - Geelong player has a duty of care to protect his own head with his free arm if he feels so inclined - that tackle was textbook.

the tackle may not of been a reportable offence but placing blame on Duncan when a natural instincts is to protect the head and would of if he could - is laughable.

 

[Arr0w]

Ah yes, the old victim blaming trick. The guy playing the ball and taking the mark was clearly trying to get ploughman suspended by having a a glass head and angling it towards him. Quick get me my tin foil hat pronto!

Hartigan got 3 weeks for that elbow, clearly deserved it, was a stupid thing to do. whats more to be said? Oh wait im meant to follow your lead and victim blame right? soooo clearly walsh leaned his head in where hartigan was just stretching his arm so as to get hartigan suspended... am i doing it right?

Hartigan "stupid thing to do"?

It was deliberate thuggery, call it for what it is.

These are the incidents the afl should be stamping out with harsher penalties

 

[Neese]

I'm not 100% sure about that...

The footage is inconclusive, but there's a strong probability that the point of Francis's shoulder made contact with O'Meara's jaw, however fleeting.

I've seen people argue on here that Player X or Y was "concussed from the whiplash", but is that even possible?
Slow-motion replay or frame-by-frame pics often shows contact to the head. e.g. Plowman v O'Meara.

Quite often with those "perfect bumps" the brunt of the impact is to the victim's shoulder or sternum region and then the victim's head curls around into the top of the shoulder. Is that what you mean by "whiplash" ? It's still high contact.


Francis's shoulder was higher than O'Meara's shoulder and it was lined up more with O'Meara's head
He is a bigger bloke (193cm v 183cm) and he has his front foot in the air which suggests he was launching his body slightly upwards into that bump
It wasn't direct shoulder to shoulder contact even though it looked that way to the naked eye.

O'Meara doesn't have a lot of awareness.

 

[exile]

holman tackles duncan to the side of his back, to avoid the "in the back" rule. technically speaking, it's a great tackle and was rewarded accordingly.
it's the fact holman grabbed his arm and duncan was trying to dispose of the ball by foot whilst being tackled that resulted in him being off balance and ending up hitting his head.

i would suggest michael christian inform holman the correct technique to avoid a suspension in this scenario, because personally i see it as pretty close to a perfect tackle in this scenario. the commentator's initial reaction along with the umpires assessing the tackle as "holding the ball" not "dangerous tackle" seems to side with this too.

 

[lordbob]

Hartigan "stupid thing to do"?

It was deliberate thuggery, call it for what it is.

These are the incidents the afl should be stamping out with harsher penalties

who cares what i call it, he got what he deserved thats all that matters. Its a stupid thing to do for an afl player with a million cameras around where you will get caught. If you want to call it the worst crime against humanity since jesus was nailed to a cross then thats fine, im not going to argue semantics and exact categorisation of the act. We can call it Shirley for all i care.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

If you watch the replay again, Plowman has already taken his eye off the ball, turned side on and braced for impact and then he leaps into the air in the last split second, thereby guaranteeing illegitimate high contact with O'Meara

You can't allow that. He's not going for the ball in that moment. He's playing the man.

How's it any different to players who get suspended for bumping an opponent in the head when they're going in for the hard ball? They make a split second decision (out of self-preservation) to tuck up, brace for the impact and bump the guy instead of just keeping their eye on the footy and trying to win the hard ball.

The AFL have been suspending players for that exact thing for the past 10 years

But when it comes to marking contests we give no protection to the player who keeps his eye on the ball. For some odd reason, we allow his opponent to take his eye off the ball (out of self preservation) and crunch him and then we all applaud everyone for their courage, while some poor bastard gets stretchered off, misses a week through concussion and slurs like Jono Brown post-retirement


I disagree that this type of play should be encouraged. I think it opens the door for cheap shots. Players should be encouraged to make the ball their sole objective in contests like that. Imagine if Plowman had kept his eye on the ball and smashed into O'Meara, but managed to hold onto the mark. Wouldn't that have been something? But instead he turned side-on, took his eye off the ball, ruined what could've been a great contest and concussed a bloke in the process.

You're having an absolute nightmare in here.
Plowman is running directly at the ball expecting to take a chest mark. JOM comes in from the side at a 90 degree angle to the flight and comes across Plow's path at the last second. Both reasonable actions in a fair marking contest. But you expect Plowman to just leave himself open to front on contact and cop one in the chest and stomach? Had he done that, it would have been JOM who most likely copped Plow high and JOM would be looking at a week or two off.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Which frame did Plow take his eyes off the footy? Seems to be watching it the whole way.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

After watching this again, I can see Plowman maybe did try to spoil in a half-hearted way but missed and chopped O'Meara's arm
I was too focused on the point of Plowman's left shoulder connecting with O'Meara's chin.

He's in two minds... Spoil the marking attempt... Or protect himself....
He's sort of tried to do both, but taken his eye off the ball and missed the ball with his right hand.

The Blues should probably challenge and get Plowman off at the tribunal
Or maybe he should pay the penalty for not connecting with the spoil and collecting O'Meara in the head
Maybe that's the line which the AFL need to draw: Crash in, miss the ball, get the head, out you go


Really, my main concern is why the umpire waved play on and didn't award O'Meara the free kick. That was my original point in the match thread.

This has to be a free kick... Surely???

(IDGAF about opposition players being banned. I leave all that type of shiit to the Carlton sooks..)

You almost got there.
What's the free kick for?

 

[Arr0w]

who cares what i call it, he got what he deserved thats all that matters. Its a stupid thing to do for an afl player with a million cameras around where you will get caught. If you want to call it the worst crime against humanity since jesus was nailed to a cross then thats fine, im not going to argue semantics and exact categorisation of the act. We can call it Shirley for all i care.

Stupid because there are a million cameras

Staggering

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Holman one is a joke. Hopefully some sanity prevails and he gets off. Plowman is the old look at the outcome and work backwards from there.

Your comment on the Plowman incident is a little vague. Are you saying there's nothing in it, but they've started with the concussion and worked backwards to get a suspension?

 

[Back One Out]

You're having an absolute nightmare in here.
Plowman is running directly at the ball expecting to take a chest mark. JOM comes in from the side at a 90 degree angle to the flight and comes across Plow's path at the last second. Both reasonable actions in a fair marking contest. But you expect Plowman to just leave himself open to front on contact and cop one in the chest and stomach? Had he done that, it would have been JOM who most likely copped Plow high and JOM would be looking at a week or two off.

Bollocks.

O'Meara was running onto a hospital pass from his teammate. He didn't suddenly appear out of nowhere.
He was right there, jogging along to meet the ball and expecting to take a simple mark.

Plowman ran in much quicker to make it a contest from a fair way back
The first few pics I posted shows the difference in distance between the players and the ball, and also the relative difference in speed they were running.

Plowman had the play in front of him. He could see that Mitchell was passing the footy to O'Meara.
He saw both O'Meara and the ball as he ran in to make that contest. Except he didn't keep his eye on the ball.

Which frame did Plow take his eyes off the footy? Seems to be watching it the whole way.

Well, if you use your brain, you can tell he took his eye off the ball right around the time he started turning side on to protect himself and dangling his right arm half-heartedly in the general direction of where he thought the ball was.

Probably between these two frames below...

If Plowman had kept his eye on the ball, his fist would've connected with it and the ball would've gone back in the same direction as it came
But he missed it completely. His forearm hit O'Meara's forearm and the ball spilled from O'Meara's hands down and to the left

You almost got there. What's the free kick for?

Free kick for not making a legitimate attempt to mark or spoil and collecting an opponent in the head. Or chopping the arms... Take your pick.

Incidental high contact is permitted in marking contests only if there is a legitimate effort to mark or spoil

Plowman was part of the way through of the process of making legitimate effort to mark or spoil, but then he bailed out at the last split second and chose to protect himself and crashed into O'Meara instead. Therefore, it wasn't a legitimate effort to mark or spoil.



Oh, and thanks for mashing the thumbs down button. What a tool...

 

[theiaofseed]

Which frame did Plow take his eyes off the footy? Seems to be watching it the whole way.

Doesn't matter he decided to make contact and made contact with head, amount of sooking and lack of understanding from Carlton fans is quite amusing.

 

[La Dispute]

Hilarious melts from Hawk supporters ITT. They’ve really been on edge lately.

Great contest from Plowman

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Which frame did Plow take his eyes off the footy? Seems to be watching it the whole way.

Was he going to mark it with closed hands?

interesting technique.

 

[JustaBattler]

Was he going to mark it with closed hands?

interesting technique.

A lot of defender go the punch at the very moment an opponent is about to mark the ball- maybe you should consider that as a possibility.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

A lot of defender go the punch at the very moment an opponent is about to mark the ball- maybe you should consider that as a possibility.

So he had identified he was going to be second to the ball, and to spoil, yet couldn’t do that without laying a bump.... while forgetting to actually punch the ball.

Interesting technique.

 

[Back One Out]

O'Meara doesn't have a lot of awareness.

Maybe.

But he's a very courageous player who keeps his eye on the ball and has played some terrific footy this year despite a horror run with injuries throughout his career.

I'm not really sure why anyone would be bashing O'Meara over this. What did he do wrong?
Should he have pulled out of the contest or taken short steps like a number of your Blues heroes from the past 2 decades?

 

[JustaBattler]

So he had identified he was going to be second to the ball, and to spoil, yet couldn’t do that without laying a bump.... while forgetting to actually punch the ball.

Interesting technique.

Punching a ball before your opponent lays hands on it - isnt second to the ball is it though?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

So what you’re saying is the tackler shouldn’t be allowed to grab the arms in a tackle and just allow a bloke to handball the football. What is the point of tackling? You can’t actually be serious


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Pin the arm if you want but if you end up smashing the players head into the ground as a result and he gets concussion then eat the suspension and shutup... Whats so hard to understand? Pinning the arm and driving a player face first into the ground is extremely dangerous and the AFL is doing its best to stamp it out.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Punching a ball before your opponent lays hands on it - isnt second to the ball is it though?

Does Plowman have invisible, super long arms?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

holman tackles duncan to the side of his back, to avoid the "in the back" rule. technically speaking, it's a great tackle and was rewarded accordingly.
it's the fact holman grabbed his arm and duncan was trying to dispose of the ball by foot whilst being tackled that resulted in him being off balance and ending up hitting his head.

i would suggest michael christian inform holman the correct technique to avoid a suspension in this scenario, because personally i see it as pretty close to a perfect tackle in this scenario. the commentator's initial reaction along with the umpires assessing the tackle as "holding the ball" not "dangerous tackle" seems to side with this too.

I already posted video of the correct technique - Cyril was an expert at it. Another great example was Ottens in 2007 grand final - exact same situation - pins his arm. Notice he brings him DOWN instead of forward. End result still the same - free kick for incorrect disposal. Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti another expert - notice not a single concussion? Because he applies force DOWN instead of forward. He does this by dropping his body low after he has grabbed the player - this also avoids in the back and any possibility of the opponents head bouncing off the turf.

 

[NeutralFan]

Holman decision is a disgrace.

Plowman one is incredibly hard to judge. Looks as though he hesitates seeing O'Meara run back in the road and doesn't spoil nor attempt to mark and braces for contact which is an instinct but because he doesn't do the previous two actions he'll probably still get the week or two. Will be unlucky but that's how it usually goes.

 

[JustaBattler]

Does Plowman have invisible, super long arms?

View attachment 1136333

Did exactly what any decent defender would do and that is go for the ball - hard, and it as a successful spoil - hand to teh ball and in doing so body on body collision - no free kick play on according to the ump right next to the contest.

What do you want exactly- a red carpet ride to uncontested marks for Hawforn?

All this pretend mind reading nonsense - bet there woudl be no complaints if Plowman came off second best in that open contest.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Not sure if mentioned but HTF does Goldstein get away with a fine? Is it because it's a North game and nobody was watching?

Ran in late and delivered a precise punch above the eye, nowhere near the ball, causing Wright to bleed like a stuck pig. There are snipers in the army who'd be proud of that shot.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Did exactly what any decent defender would do and that is go for the ball - hard, and it as a successful spoil - hand to teh ball and in doing so body on body collision - no free kick play on according to the ump right next to the contest.

What do you want exactly- a red carpet ride to uncontested marks for Hawforn?

All this pretend mind reading nonsense - bet there woudl be no complaints if Plowman came off second best in that open contest.

Any decent defender wouldn’t be scared not to outstretch their arm and effect a spoil, rather than bringing their elbow in and attempt a bump.


Poor technique.