Coach Horse: Retain, Retire, Reinvent?

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Grand Uncle Horace said:
🐎🐴🐴

Horse's contract expires soon.

What do people think should or will happen?
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Extend....it is a no brainer this time around I would think. I would add a clause that says if injured players are played in Grand Finals it is instant termination.
 

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My expectation pre-season 2022 was that he needed to win a final this season or at least, make the 8 both seasons and win a final in 2023.

He did that this season. So based on that for me, we extend.

But whilst I don't think the GF loss was entirely his fault (did anyone expect Hickey to have his worst game or Rowbottom to be bullied?), him and the coaching staff made massive errors in that game. And that does leave a btter taste.

So 2023 my expectations are Top 6 and minimum Semi-Final (harder draw probably sees us stagnate a bit). We make that or are at least on track for it and I think a 2 year (3 max) extension is appropriate.

If McDonald moves clubs at the end of the season and says it was because of being dropped for the GF though I will burn the entire club to the ground though
 
Extend every day of the week.

Blicavs in the mids was a curveball no coach would've had an answer for in a GF. It's not bad coaching from Horse, it was just brilliant coaching from Chris Scott.

Clearly the right man for this team, but obviously needs to change his approach to grand finals.
 
Definitely extend, but only for 2-3 years. We've had 2 smashings in the last 3 GF outings. Yeah, the oppo played out of their skins on those days, but it is up to the coaching staff to make sure we do as well, or to have ways of adapting? We also under-performed against the Dogs, although we copped some injuries among other things that went against us. Still, we under-performed. That said, after 2-3 years, even if we haven't won a flag, there'd have to be a clear contender to replace Horse if we're still up the top end of the ladder.
 
I think Horse has done a bit of reinvention himself over the last 4 years.
Improve game style ✅
Improve coaching team (kudos here to Harley as well) ✅
Improve game day coaching structure ✅
Get the best out of COVID ✅
And never let up that pressure wins the big games ✅
Truly sad that the GF is where the wheels fell off.
Like the players, Horse deserves the chance for redemption.
EXTEND
 
rustycrate said:
Horse agrees with most in this thread.
He says Grand Finals are hard to win. Only 1 team in 18 does it. Tough task.
He is the coach and obviously cops it when we lose one. You do a hundred things right and one wrong. People judge you on the one you got wrong.
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Yes but if you make the Grand Final 4 times you would hope to win more than 1 of them.
 

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caesar88 said:
Extend every day of the week.

Blicavs in the mids was a curveball no coach would've had an answer for in a GF. It's not bad coaching from Horse, it was just brilliant coaching from Chris Scott.

Clearly the right man for this team, but obviously needs to change his approach to grand finals.
Click to expand...
Pretty much my thoughts also
 
Its a wait for me -
We seem to think our GF was a 1 off blow out -
Since 2017 our finals record is not great at all (just in years where we have played)
2017 - Lost to Cats x 59
2018 - Lost to GWS X 49
2021 - lost to GWS X 1 - should have never lost that game.

Then we look at 2014 GF. That was gone by 1/4 time as well

2016 - GF we were screwed over massively - but we must also recognise we played 3 under done players in Tippett - Mills & McV

This year we play a clearly unfit Reid -

Love Horse as a coach & Mentor but something goes terribly wrong come Sept. -

And please Biclavs playing in the Guts is not a shock and shouldnt dismantle your plans that badly -
WTAF starting Chad on the bench…
 
I was very critical of him at the start of this season, but he proved me wrong by getting them to a GF, which includes one of the best finals performances the swans have ever had in beating Melb.

Still the right man for the job, despite my rant back in round 6 or 7 or whatever it was.
 
M F JONES said:
Its a wait for me -
We seem to think our GF was a 1 off blow out -
Since 2017 our finals record is not great at all (just in years where we have played)
2017 - Lost to Cats x 59
2018 - Lost to GWS X 49
2021 - lost to GWS X 1 - should have never lost that game.

Then we look at 2014 GF. That was gone by 1/4 time as well

2016 - GF we were screwed over massively - but we must also recognise we played 3 under done players in Tippett - Mills & McV

This year we play a clearly unfit Reid -

Love Horse as a coach & Mentor but something goes terribly wrong come Sept. -

And please Biclavs playing in the Guts is not a shock and shouldnt dismantle your plans that badly -
WTAF starting Chad on the bench…
Click to expand...
Things didn't seem to go terribly wrong much of this September when we won two finals? Funny how the criteria for Horse seems to change. "Win a final" becomes "win a grand final" once he starts, y'know, winning finals...

The prelim final was rather illuminating IMO. Rose-coloured glasses and the urge to be optimistic made us think the second half fade-out of that game was nothing to be concerned about, but we carried that exact form into the GF the week after, which suggests a lot of our boys simply might not've had much left in the tank.

Which does make the Blicavs move a relevant one. Suddenly we're up against a 198cm giant being deployed in a way that no other team had encountered all year. (82% CBAs in the GF playing as a mid, his highest all year by a long way - next highest was 50% earlier in the year. This proves it was a deliberate and engineered plan to blindside us and disrupt our midfield, and it worked. Even a team firing on all cyllinders would find life difficult with that, let alone one that seems half-baked. Not saying it won them the game but I think it was the initial boot they laid in that we did not. Doesn't hurt to acknowledge an opposition move and give it credit...

As for Warner starting on the bench, did you see our other finals? As fantastic as his season was, he was our 4th-best performing mid in the two finals prior (which is not to say he wasn't still quality). It's the big dance. You're not gonna have anything but your best midfield that got you there to start with. And whilst his resolve to finish out the game strongly and fight til the end was impressive, he was no better than any of our other players when the heat was on and the game was there to be won. 4 disposals in the first quarter.

As awful as it was to watch, I actually found this year's GF the least disappointing out of all three, including 2016. The benefit of hindsight showed we just didn't have enough left to give and against a rampaging team that had done it with ease, it's no wonder it was such an assault. On the matter of rallying our players for the occasion, I am with you. It's incredibly disappointing that we have to keep being disappointed in our most experienced players and leaders in grand finals. Horse isn't getting through to them for whatever reason, and I think even his staunchest advocates have acknowledged that's something he needs to address and fix.
 
I have not written about the GF other than to have noted like C88 that we lost it during the PF. Aside from Reid I wonder how many were carrying injuries or were simply cooked. For me it was telling that two of our lesser lights in Fox and Stephens both stood up on the day. They also happen to be two of our strongest runners.

For me Horse has already reinvented himself but like all of us when under pressure reverts to ingrained behaviours. Personally I want him to stay but to transition to Gardiner’s role.
 
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Grand Uncle Horace said:
I have not written about the GF other than to have noted like C88 that we lost it during the GF. Aside from Reid I wonder how many were carrying injuries or were simply cooked. For me it was telling that two of our lesser lights in Fox and Stephanie both stood up on the day.

For me Horse has already reinvented himself but like all of us when under pressure reverts to ingrained behaviours. Personally I want him to stay but to transition to Gardiner’s role.
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Longmire is a much better coach than he was a few years ago and he has very much proven me wrong as I used to think he was unable to change, unwilling to adapt to the evolution of the game and the different players he now has compared to a decade ago. Our game style in 2021 and 2022 is perfect for the modern game and our players.

However one flaw Longmire still has is that in Grand Finals he very much has a history of picking the player under the injury cloud and it simply doesn't seem to work.
 

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Coach Horse: Retain, Retire, Reinvent?

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