Coach Sack Horse

Sack Longmire tomorrow?

  • yes

    Votes: 75 65.8%

  • monday

    Votes: 39 34.2%
  • Total voters
    114

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rustycrate said:
I'm not suggesting you did. There are lots of posts on here and I am responding to them as a group.

I can also see the loss of patience and I can understand it.

I have never heard the club say that premierships don't define us. Maybe I missed something.

You can extended Horse if you think he is best to lead us forward. If the club thinks not, then make the change. I am open to positive change if the club believes it will lead to better outcomes.
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Fox, one of our better GF performers said after the game that some of the work done with the club psychologist was that the grand final ("one game") wouldn't define us. It's not the only thing that should define the club, but it's #1 with daylight before any other considerations, as long as we act with integrity imo.

Believe it was Harley or Pridham that said Horse will be coach as long as he wants the job. I think that was before this latest GF debacle, so hopefully that's no longer our basis for extending coaches.
 
Tedeski said:
Preaching to the wrong bloke Rusty.
Those that know me on here from the start will tell you that I was one of the most positive posters on here until the 2022 GF was over. I don’t wish for anything other than a tougher group.
We don’t represent tough anymore.
Our great late mate nicknamed me Rebecca from Sunnybrook Farm, such was his annoyance at my positivity.
So if it’s alright with you & all of the long time posters on here, I’d like to post about my annoyance freely.
By all means cheer as hard as you can Rusty & take over my positive mantle as the new Rebecca From Sunnybrooke Farm as GUH will be looking down at us & laughing his head off at how much I’ve changed.
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I will always be positive to my dying grave. My blood type is B negative. My outlook on life is B positive. I am in balance.

I respect you Tedeski. You always speak your mind. You are honest and forthright. I respect that. I may not agree with you. But I respect you. Always.

I am a positive person. I grew up through some horrible times. Some very difficult times. Sometimes I would cry. But the next day I got up and put a smile on my face and confronted the day. One thing I learned was that the day would never turn out to be as bad as I expected. When in high school I got attacked by 5 guys I smashed up a couple. Sure I got hurt. Next day I went looking for a fight and the chickens were hiding because they were not together. I picked them off individually and I got beaten up by older guys as a result. If you won a fight the next big dog wanted to fight you. I got smashed up pretty good. This happened on a regular basis. But the more I did it the less it happened. People got sick of me. In the end everyone left me alone.

I prevailed. Hence I believe in myself. I believe in the Swans. We will get there.
 
caesar88 said:
Horse must be the unluckiest coach in the world that he hasn't been able to have a quality group of mids to work with in any of the past seven seasons...
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When asked before the GF about how you beat the Swans, Craig McRae simply said, 'Stop Heeney". He got us over the line in the final against GWS with help from Warner and Papley and Port were cooked by the time we played them in the PF. Heeney was a non factor after getting injured in the first quarter of the GF. We lack depth and talent when it comes to physical, contested footy. Like Geelong, Brisbane monstered us.
 

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rustycrate said:
I remember the sack Mark Thompson before Geelong won their flag in 2008.
I remember the get rid of Hardwick prior to their run of success. There were parties that wanted to sack the board. But they prevailed and had a run of success that was amazing.

So you think that giving in leads to club success or persevering leads to club success? Only history will tell us that answer.

Some of the clubs above were in the same position but did not give up. If they did they would not have achived premiership success.

You can choose examples to justify your sack Horse. You can also choose examples that justify Horse.

Plenty of angry Geelong supporters are happy now.
Plenty of angry Richmond supporters are happy now.

I guess we will see if we stick firm and win or not. Or we go someone else and you will be happier I guess.
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Your examples of Geelong and Richmond are good ones, if I'm not mistaken didn't BOTH clubs have external reviews before they found ultimate success? No sign of that at the Swans, just the statements "Longmire has a job for as long as he wants it" and "one game does not define us", in other words mediocrity is just fine.
 
McGowan3 said:
When asked before the GF about how you beat the Swans, Craig McRae simply said, 'Stop Heeney". He got us over the line in the final against GWS with help from Warner and Papley and Port were cooked by the time we played them in the PF. Heeney was a non factor after getting injured in the first quarter of the GF. We lack depth and talent when it comes to physical, contested footy. Like Geelong, Brisbane monstered us.
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I agree that we lack contested players on the list overall, but this was an issue when we had JPK, Parker, Hewett, Mills, etc... It's been actual years and multiple generations of Swans midfields being average in the contest, despite having quality contested mids in there.

It seems really glaring to me that Horse doesn't know what to do with them.
 
Jewelsbon said:
Your examples of Geelong and Richmond are good ones, if I'm not mistaken didn't BOTH clubs have external reviews before they found ultimate success? No sign of that at the Swans, just the statements "Longmire has a job for as long as he wants it" and "one game does not define us", in other words mediocrity is just fine.
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Hi Jewelsbon,

I doubt the club said "one game does not define us".
I expect the club is doing a lot behind the scenes. Longmire is contracted until the end of next year. I expect Harley is all over it.

Next year I reckon things will change. I don't know what. I understand that you are in a space that nothing will heal. I understand that.

I don't think the club feels that mediocrity is fine. I think you need to give the club some time.

I feel like I have to defend the club and have all the answers. I will defend the club, but I don't have all the answers nor the timeframes on anything that would appease supporters.
 
caesar88 said:
I agree that we lack contested players on the list overall, but this was an issue when we had JPK, Parker, Hewett, Mills, etc... It's been actual years and multiple generations of Swans midfields being average in the contest, despite having quality contested mids in there.

It seems really glaring to me that Horse doesn't know what to do with them.
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Agree that we have struggled to get the balance right. Unbalanced this year in the sense that we have too many pacy outside players. In the past, we lacked quick players. 2012 was spot on. Hawks had a better list but we played out of skins that day. And they kicked poorly for goal.
 
rustycrate said:
Hi Jewelsbon,

I doubt the club said "one game does not define us".
I expect the club is doing a lot behind the scenes. Longmire is contracted until the end of next year. I expect Harley is all over it.

Next year I reckon things will change. I don't know what. I understand that you are in a space that nothing will heal. I understand that.

I don't think the club feels that mediocrity is fine. I think you need to give the club some time.

I feel like I have to defend the club and have all the answers. I will defend the club, but I don't have all the answers nor the timeframes on anything that would appease supporters.
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Well I guess Fox may have gotten it wrong or is a liar.

Maybe things will change, but there's no reason at this stage to suggest it will after it didn't change before. Up to the club to communicate/show action about that, it's not on us to just quietly accept the status quo and be happy about it (especially on a thread created for expressing unhappiness).
 
McGowan3 said:
Agree that we have struggled to get the balance right. Unbalanced this year in the sense that we have too many pacy outside players. In the past, we lacked quick players. 2012 was spot on. Hawks had a better list but we played out of skins that day. And they kicked poorly for goal.
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2012 was an absolute fluke. Play that game 10 times, we lose 9 times.
 
Jewelsbon said:
Your examples of Geelong and Richmond are good ones, if I'm not mistaken didn't BOTH clubs have external reviews before they found ultimate success? No sign of that at the Swans, just the statements "Longmire has a job for as long as he wants it" and "one game does not define us", in other words mediocrity is just fine.
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They changed the assistants as well , we don't
 
We will all cherish the 2012 flag but as time goes by you wonder how the frick did we win that lol. I knew about the Hawks inaccuracy etc but some of the goals we kicked were crazy. Malcheskis miracle snap to win it being the greatest moment.
 

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Bloods86 said:
Fox, one of our better GF performers said after the game that some of the work done with the club psychologist was that the grand final ("one game") wouldn't define us. It's not the only thing that should define the club, but it's #1 with daylight before any other considerations, as long as we act with integrity imo.

Believe it was Harley or Pridham that said Horse will be coach as long as he wants the job. I think that was before this latest GF debacle, so hopefully that's no longer our basis for extending coaches.
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When you hear the players/coach talk about the lessons learnt from 2022 grand final. They sometimes talk about needing to "live in the moment".

I interpreted it as not thinking about the huge stakes between winning and losing. Instead being able to settle into the game, perform your role and play well. My guess was the "one game won't define us" comment was trying not to get overawed by the occasion. The worry that it would be embarrassing to lose the grand final after being the best team all year.
 
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Also I wonder whether our poor starts to games through the regular season was indicative of what happened on grand final day. Whether that was us not being able to mentally settle into a game. Even in our comeback finals win against GWS, we had to chase the game and play on instinct.

Or as some posters theorized that it was because opposition teams would have high pressure against us at the start of games so we would struggle. But then tire in the 2nd half which would suit our game style as it become more open and unpressured.

I think Longmire is aware of that. When we narrowly beat Collingwood. He was happy that the team was able to grind out the result. Where a lot of games earlier in the season we might have won on talent. Rather than games where things are going against you but you hang in there and grind out a win.
 
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SeanM said:
When you hear the players/coach talk about the lessons learnt from 2022 grand final. They sometimes talk about needing to "live in the moment".

I interpreted it as not thinking about the huge stakes between winning and losing. Instead being able to settle into the game, perform your role and play well. My guess was the "one game won't define us" comment was trying not to get overawed by the occasion. The worry that it would be embarrassing to lose the grand final after being the best team all year.
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Well then it didn't work, and they didn't actually learn lessons from 2022.
 
I've been a bit bored, so prepared a summary of Finals under Longmire (see below);

1730073040319.png

So an overall Win Rate of 50% in Finals over his tenure.

Missing Finals in both 2019 and 2020, then extrapolating the results after that 'rebuild', the Win Rate is still just 50% but we do make the Grand Final more often (smaller sample size).

1730073208887.png

Just looking at Grand Finals over his entire tenure makes for sombre reading.

1730073346744.png

My personal thought is that the rebuild has ignored some vital aspects, consistently beaten in the midfield, an incorrectly structured forward line and a game plan too focussed on scoring from turnovers.

All items that do not stack up in Finals, especially BIG finals.

Given his reluctance to change, I can't see where the improvement will come from to win another Premiership until after Horse is gone.
 
rustycrate said:
Le
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rustycrate said:
If you want to behave like Port supporters that attack the club negatively rather than positively then go ahead.
I reckon most Swans supporters have more class than Port supporters.

There are always different ways to go about achieving the same end. You can go destructive like Port fans. You can go a different way and make your thoughts known respectfully and still achieve the same end.

Each to their own. Horse has presided over a period of success that is unparalleled in Swans history. Yes he has failed at the pointy end too many times to be forgiven by many. But it is not that he didn't try. He did his best. To denigrate him and want to throw him in the waste basket without thinking of the transition to ensure the continued success of the club is dumb. To want to immediately get rid of him without giving credit to the huge contribution he has made to the club is thinking that this coaching shit is somehow easy and thinking any new coach will do better.

Be sure you are happy with what you wish for.
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sad chris crocker GIF
 
Jeffers said:
Premiership or bust for Horse in 2025
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That's an unrealistic standard imo.

For me it's about whether there is a significant change up in the middle of the ground.

If our centre is essentially the same mix as this year, with Mills maybe as the only addition, then it's over I think. It will just be a countdown until the next thrashing.
 
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tombomb said:
That's an unrealistic standard imo.

For me it's about whether there is a significant change up in the middle of the ground.

If our centre is essentially the same mix as this year, with Mills maybe as the only addition, then it's over I think. It will just be a countdown until the next thrashing.
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Horse needs to realise that the midfield isn't just where you put all your best and favourite players and then expect it to click. The whole needs to be greater than the sum of its parts.
 
rustycrate said:
Horse has presided over a period of success that is unparalleled in Swans history.
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Except it isn’t unparalleled. We have a 3 peat of flag wins when we were in the VFA and made 5 Grand Finals for 1 flag between 1933 and 1945.

I have more than anyone have given Horse the benefit of the doubt but even I think his time has come to handover the job.
 
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